Black diamonds east vs west?

[Lmk92]

All the talk about Diva East and West has me scouring trail maps. I'm intrigued by the differences between the mountains in the east and west. How do trails compare? How scary are the black diamonds out west, in general?

 

[Christy]

I've never skied the east, but even in the west there is variety among the blacks. Remember it's just an indiacator of difficulty at that mountain, in relation to the other runs on that mountain. I skied a short black at Beaver Creek that was, no exaggeration, mellower than many greens I've been on elsewhere. There are other blacks (at many places) mellower than blues at other places. There is a huge difference between that Beaver Creek black, or the Dave Murray Dowhill at Whistler which is wide and groomed and not steep, and blacks I've skied at Crystal Mountain WA (my home mountain), where it's like skiing on a basketball and you can't see the bottom until you get close.

You can always ask mountain hosts, instructors, ski patrol or just other skiers on a chairlift about particular runs, if you aren't sure you should try it.

 

[nopoleskier]

All the talk about Diva East and West has me scouring trail maps. I'm intrigued by the differences between the mountains in the east and west. How do trails compare? How scary are the black diamonds out west, in general?

Trail ratings are related to each Mt and not universal.
Steepness and length of trail are part of the rating but it is only for each Mt.
For instance a Black trail at Okemo to me is Tame to a Black trail at Higher elevation/steeper Mts East or West.

At the Cottage (restaurant in Lake Placid) there's a poster for Whiteface
How steep are we? Our parking lot is your green trail, Our Blues are your blacks, our blacks are your double blacks, our double blacks-- maybe you should stay home.

I've been on Blacks out west that are groomed and no problem; add piles of snow and they become double black. there's a double blue at Telluride that rivals blacks.

I ski Gore and Whiteface- Rumor at Gore is one of the scariest trails I have EVER been on especially when it's Icy- I've been on some knarly stuff and I do love steep trails- especially groomed or w/spring bumps snow-

This 'bowl" photo is a double black Revelstoke- the camera is not tilted. It was EASIER than skiing Rumor 2wks ago when Rumor had Ice and bumps! At the top of Revy they have 2 trails- next to each other- 1 is blue 1 is black- I asked what's up with that since both are side by side- answer was the blue one 'sometimes' gets groomed.

the bump photo is rumor- still can't tell how steep it truly is

NOT TO WORRY- At Diva Events others will let you know 'what the trail is like' and often some of us ski a trail and then give feed back to others what it's like..

 

[santacruz skier]

Agree . It's relative to the mountain but sometimes a blue can quickly be a black if conditions warrant. Northstar's backside blacks aren't really steep but they are long. Lookout Mtn blacks are true blacks. Frontside blacks are very short and easy. Many runs are left ungroomed so that changes things. Most trees are low angle but some steep ones over on Lookout.

 

[santacruz skier]

Squaw blacks are true blacks except in a few cases. Granite Chief is a fun area . Used to be rated all black but now one run rating is now blue. I primarily ski Northstar so can advise that mountain!

 

[Lmk92]

This 'bowl" photo is a double black Revelstoke- the camera is not tilted. It was EASIER than skiing Rumor 2wks ago when Rumor had Ice and bumps! At the top of Revy they have 2 trails- next to each other- 1 is blue 1 is black- I asked what's up with that since both are side by side- answer was the blue one 'sometimes' gets groomed.

All great info, thank you ladies! This give some good context. I realize the colors are all relative, but I was hoping there was some sort of general comparison to give me an idea of what I'm getting myself in to. The last thing I want is to freeze in the middle of a trail while skiing with the divas. How embarrassing!

We try to visit Gore once a year, so I am familiar with Rumor, but those bumps keep me away from it. I didn't like Chattimac with the bumps, slush, and bare spots. So those bowls out west are just ungroomed, undefined trails? Not my favorite, but dang, I want to do it.

 

[Lmk92]

Squaw blacks are true blacks except in a few cases. Granite Chief is a fun area . Used to be rated all black but now one run rating is now blue. I primarily ski Northstar so can advise that mountain!

Definitely the info I was looking for. Thanks!

Currently, my technique really stinks, but I don't fear most of the black diamonds I've encountered in the Poconos or Catskills (unless they are ungroomed, unfortunately), and the few black diamonds without bumps at Gore were pretty tame, I thought. I know the west is a different animal, but I didn't know how different.

 

[nopoleskier]

All great info, thank you ladies! This give some good context. I realize the colors are all relative, but I was hoping there was some sort of general comparison to give me an idea of what I'm getting myself in to. The last thing I want is to freeze in the middle of a trail while skiing with the divas. How embarrassing!

We try to visit Gore once a year, so I am familiar with Rumor, but those bumps keep me away from it. I didn't like Chattimac with the bumps, slush, and bare spots. So those bowls out west are just ungroomed, undefined trails? Not my favorite, but dang, I want to do it.

Chattimac AKA CHATTER-GACK- is my Least Favorite trail! It has a horrible slanted fall line!

Yes most bowls are often Ungroomed- Although some Mts Run a groomer on them Here's photos of Revelation Bowl at Telluride- 1/2 groomed 1/2 bumps - Even Rumor gets groomed when the bumps become UNmanageable

steeps you have to control your speed and finish your turns- gravity on steep trails 'pulls' you down the mt increasing your speed part of the rating.

Looking down Revelation bowl

Looking up

 

[Christy]

Definitely the info I was looking for. Thanks!

Currently, my technique really stinks, but I don't fear most of the black diamonds I've encountered in the Poconos or Catskills (unless they are ungroomed, unfortunately), and the few black diamonds without bumps at Gore were pretty tame, I thought. I know the west is a different animal, but I didn't know how different.

I've become a rather lazy or maybe it's better to say "fun-focused" skier. I used to think I always had to ski harder stuff and push myself but now I don't care. Anyway I ski exclusively in the West and a) never need to ski blacks as there is always lots of other terrain and b) only ski blacks when conditions are good and I feel like it. So, you certainly don't have to to ski in the West. I also tend to think East Coast skiers have a leg up on some of us (me) western skiers as you get all sorts of conditions. You are probably better equipped to ski here than you think.

 

[Jilly]

Take that bowl over Pali!!

 

[ski diva]

All great info, thank you ladies! This give some good context. I realize the colors are all relative, but I was hoping there was some sort of general comparison to give me an idea of what I'm getting myself in to. The last thing I want is to freeze in the middle of a trail while skiing with the divas. How embarrassing!

I just want to put this out there: Don't think you have to be a double-black-ski-the-chutes-at-Squaw skier to come on our trips. Aside from skiing together for a run or two, we pretty much end up breaking into groups based on ability and/or what you want to ski. The main idea is to have fun, so don't worry about getting in over your head. You ski the runs you're comfortable with. I guarantee others will be there with you.

 

[santacruz skier]

I just want to put this out there: Don't think you have to be a double-black-ski-the-chutes-at-Squaw skier to come on our trips. Aside from skiing together for a run or two, we pretty much end up breaking into groups based on ability and/or what you want to ski. The main idea is to have fun, so don't worry about getting in over your head. You ski the runs you're comfortable on. I guarantee others will be there with you.

Squaw has a lot of beginner and intermediate runs. There will plenty for everyone!

 

[Lmk92]

I just want to put this out there: Don't think you have to be a double-black-ski-the-chutes-at-Squaw skier to come on our trips. Aside from skiing together for a run or two, we pretty much end up breaking into groups based on ability and/or what you want to ski. The main idea is to have fun, so don't worry about getting in over your head. You ski the runs you're comfortable on. I guarantee others will be there with you.

That's reassuring, thank you! I love skiing with my kids because they do push me just a bit, and I definitely need that, because I end up having a great time.

Squaw has a lot of beginner and intermediate runs. There will plenty for everyone!

Good to know, but I really hope to venture out into more challenging terrain, at least a bit!

 

[ski diva]

I've become a rather lazy or maybe it's better to say "fun-focused" skier. I used to think I always had to ski harder stuff and push myself but now I don't care.

BTW, I like this attitude, @Christy . This year I've begun to feel my age, and I've found myself inclined to take it a bit easier. I'm 66, and my knees and hips are starting to hurt and I really don't want to push myself the way I did in the past. We'll see how this pans out next year in Diva West.......

 

[liquidfeet]

All great info, thank you ladies! This give some good context. I realize the colors are all relative, but I was hoping there was some sort of general comparison to give me an idea of what I'm getting myself in to. The last thing I want is to freeze in the middle of a trail while skiing with the divas. How embarrassing!

We try to visit Gore once a year, so I am familiar with Rumor, but those bumps keep me away from it. I didn't like Chattimac with the bumps, slush, and bare spots. So those bowls out west are just ungroomed, undefined trails? Not my favorite, but dang, I want to do it.

@Lmk92, if you are talking about Diva East next season, Bretton Woods is considered an "easy" mountain because of the number of green groomers and the low pitch of its blue groomers. You can spend plenty of time wandering around on these groomers and enjoying the views. The lay-out of the whole mountain is beautiful. No one will find themselves over-terrained there.

However, it has terrain that can challenge most of us. I'm not talking about steep groomers, although there are a few short steep ones that those of us who like can get onto. Those steep sections of groomers are short. The other challenges that BWoods offers are glades and bump runs. It's got easy beginner level glades and bumps to schmeedium level to big nastie bumps and rocky narrow tree runs with luge lines. The difficult (IMO) things that I don't want to ski are rocky; if people want to go in I will gladly show them the entrances and meet them at the exits.

 

[SallyCat]

I find it funny that I ski mostly at Okemo, where the blacks and double-blacks would probably be blues anywhere else. It's a hill that caters to groomer-zoomers.

But I also ski at a tiny little community "family-oriented" hill called Whaleback, and their signage categories are total mayhem. They groom with the enthusiasm level a teenager grudgingly gives to house chores. Their chairlift off-ramp would be a double-black at Okemo and there's one blue trail I've never even looked at because the horizon line alone makes me nervous. They seem to have one snowmaking gun that they point around at random and then put into storage in early February. There are some glades that look terrifying.

Of the two, btw, Okemo has waaaaaaaaay more, and more serious, injuries than Whaleback. Granted it sees far more customers in a season, but still, a co-worker who patrols there says that it's a pretty fun gig because they do a lot of skiing around and grilling on the patrol shack deck because there just isn't much patient care to be had.

 

[Iwannaski]

They groom with the enthusiasm level a teenager grudgingly gives to house chores.

i can’t stop laughing.

 

[Christy]

They groom with the enthusiasm level a teenager grudgingly gives to house chores. Their chairlift off-ramp would be a double-black at Okemo and there's one blue trail I've never even looked at because the horizon line alone makes me nervous. They seem to have one snowmaking gun that they point around at random and then put into storage in early February.

Lol!!

 

[Lmk92]

@Lmk92, if you are talking about Diva East next season, Bretton Woods is considered an "easy" mountain because of the number of green groomers and the low pitch of its blue groomers. You can spend plenty of time wandering around on these groomers and enjoying the views. The lay-out of the whole mountain is beautiful. No one will find themselves over-terrained there.

However, it has terrain that can challenge most of us. I'm not talking about steep groomers, although there are a few short steep ones that those of us who like can get onto. Those steep sections of groomers are short. The other challenges that BWoods offers are glades and bump runs. It's got easy beginner level glades and bumps to schmeedium level to big nastie bumps and rocky narrow tree runs with luge lines. The difficult (IMO) things that I don't want to ski are rocky; if people want to go in I will gladly show them the entrances and meet them at the exits.

I'm already excited! I've learned to LOVE the easy to schmeedium level glades. Thanks for this!

 

[Lmk92]

I find it funny that I ski mostly at Okemo, where the blacks and double-blacks would probably be blues anywhere else. It's a hill that caters to groomer-zoomers.

This is exactly why I asked the question. My kids and I compare areas quite often ("This is a black? It would be a blue [Insert other resort here]!") I got a little nervous wondering if the blues out west were like the double black trails here in the east.