Black diamonds east vs west?

[santacruz skier]

That's reassuring, thank you! I love skiing with my kids because they do push me just a bit, and I definitely need that, because I end up having a great time.



Good to know, but I really hope to venture out into more challenging terrain, at least a bit!

Squaw has that too.....

 

[newboots]

Their chairlift off-ramp would be a double-black at Okemo

@SallyCat - I must say I love it when you get going like this. You've got us all holding our sides and hoping you'll write more funny posts!

 

[Mudgirl630]

All the talk about Diva East and West has me scouring trail maps. I'm intrigued by the differences between the mountains in the east and west. How do trails compare? How scary are the black diamonds out west, in general?

The major difference with East and West is the snow. I ski in Aspen, CO. I will never ski the east coast. Hard packed ice vs a lot of power? No comparison.

 

[SierraLuLu]

Squaw blacks are true blacks except in a few cases.

I believe Squaw doesn’t have a double black rating, so there’s a huge variation on what you could get yourself into on a Black Diamond at Squaw.

Although my first time skiing at Squaw I found the long blue run that goes down to the base much harder than the trees and Moguls of Granite Chief because it was both icy and incredibly crowded at the time - I jokingly called it “the obstacle course.”

And we have as much variation in ratings elsewhere in California as you guys do out east.

My first double black was a run called The Wall at Snow Summit, and it was steep, groomed and (at the time) icy, while Cornice Bowl, a single black at Mammoth is equally steep, groomed and twice as long and Dave’s, another single black at Mammoth is even steeper and rarely groomed. Of course the double blacks at Mammoth are often nothing to laugh about.

Mammoth also has a rating between blue and black - blue Diamond maybe, and a similar rating between green and blue.

 

[SierraLuLu]

I got a little nervous wondering if the blues out west were like the double black trails here in the east.

From this western skier who skied in the east once (Killington/Whiteface):

- moguls are easier our west because they are not usually hard as rocks
- most things are easier out west because there is less ice - not no ice, but less.
- don’t expect trails to be well mark
- you can generally make anything into a trail, and there are a lot of unmarked chutes and pathways and bowls that might make, say, an intermediate run more difficult if you veer off the side

 

[marzNC]

I started skiing out west quite a while ago when I was an adventurous intermediate skiing blue groomers. I learned to ski in the Adirondacks plus one 3-day trip to Stowe. The soft snow at Alta and around Tahoe made skiing so much easier, regardless of how steep a blue trail was. The groomers also tend to be a lot wider than in the northeast.

My friend learned to ski at Massanutten in northern VA. A lot smaller than most ski resorts in New England. After a few seasons when she was getting in 5-10 days on snow, she was able to ski the easiest blues at Alta after a few lessons. Someone who skis blues and blacks in the northeast would probably have plenty of fun on any blue out west. Quite likely to enjoy easier blacks. Even in snow conditions that the locals consider not that much fun. The trails are generally much longer. So good to plan on stopping every so often to enjoy the view.

 

[Lmk92]

Mammoth also has a rating between blue and black - blue Diamond maybe, and a similar rating between green and blue.

This should be a thing everywhere!

Someone who skis blues and blacks in the northeast would probably have plenty of fun on any blue out west. Quite likely to enjoy easier blacks. Even in snow conditions that the locals consider not that much fun. The trails are generally much longer. So good to plan on stopping every so often to enjoy the view.

You had me at the "trails are generally much longer." Throw in some amazing views? I may not come home.

 

[marzNC]

This should be a thing everywhere!

While there are a few destination resorts with Blue-Blue or Blue-Black, there is also Alta's approach. Alta has Green/Blue/Black. However Black can be groomed, ungroomed (same trail) depending on snow conditions and forecast. More importantly, the off-piste black terrain can be "black", "double-black", or even what could be called "triple black." There is plenty of extreme in-bounds hike-to terrain at Alta. But it's all just "black" on the trail map. That said, Alta is a great place for beginners and intermediates, which I know first-hand for myself as a teen and for my daughter and friends who learned as adults.

Every region has to be experienced in order to understand the unique aspects that make it different from another region because of elevation, acreage (hundreds vs thousands), and weather patterns that generate snowstorms (with or without freeze/thaw in Jan-Feb).

 

[RachelV]

From this western skier who skied in the east once (Killington/Whiteface):

- moguls are easier our west because they are not usually hard as rocks
- most things are easier out west because there is less ice - not no ice, but less.
- don’t expect trails to be well mark
- you can generally make anything into a trail, and there are a lot of unmarked chutes and pathways and bowls that might make, say, an intermediate run more difficult if you veer off the side

I was coming here to say something like this. While the terrain in the west may look more intimidating, the snow is often so much better that the difference isn't as striking as you might think. Take it slow and work your way up on whatever mountain you're at and I think you'll be surprised what you can ski and enjoy.

 

[Lmk92]

Take it slow and work your way up on whatever mountain you're at and I think you'll be surprised what you can ski and enjoy.

Great advice for anywhere! I think my kids are always so excited to get to the top, we miss out on that progression.

 

[santacruz skier]

Also, can't remember if runs off KT22 are double black or not but the only easy way down is The Saddle. I don't ski Squaw very often, maybe once or twice in the Spring when I have a 2 for 1 so not an expert on the terrain at all. But when I ski Squaw, I usually ski Siberia, Emigrant, Shirley (crowded), Granite Chief (good in the spring) and sometimes The Saddle off KT. Haven't skied Alpine in decades but a good mountain.
But I do ski Northstar quite often so can suggest areas divas may want to check out. Also haven't skied Homewood in decades. I do manage to ski Mt Rose once or twice a year (usually March) and recently discovered some easy hikes and tree skiing on the Slide side. Front side groomers are nice with good steep pitch and will ski chutes only if good and nice snow.

 

[floatingyardsale]

Aside from what everyone else has mentioned about green/blue/blacks being relative to the resort, it's also worth mentioning that being able to advertise that one has beginner terrain or expert terrain is often part of the marketing plan of the resort. The mountain I normally ski advertises 25% beginner terrain with 8/107 runs marked as green. Clearly whatever definition they're using of beginner doesn't map onto the runs (unless they're counting area and assuming beginners traverse? Ooh, maybe they're counting by *time down the hill* not runs.) Anything out an avalanche gate (inbounds) is a double black, even though there are steeper in-bounds groomers. So... treat the colors like pirates: more like guidelines than actual rules.

The other thing I wanted to mention is how much difficulty even within a color is relative to you and your own strengths and the conditions. I'm personally fine on anything wide enough to let me choose my own line but not so great with anything narrow, and the. hell. with. bumps. I'd say don't worry about it too much. The West is awesome and if you can ski Eastern ice you're going to enjoy the much more forgiving snow out here.

 

[skibum4ever]

I skied with a low intermediate from PA on Schoolmarm in Keystone (a true beginner trail). She loved it but commented that it would be a blue run in PA.

Speaking of Keystone, how did Frenchman turn into a black diamond?

 

[Pequenita]

Also, can't remember if runs off KT22 are double black or not but the only easy way down is The Saddle. I don't ski Squaw very often, maybe once or twice in the Spring when I have a 2 for 1 so not an expert on the terrain at all. But when I ski Squaw, I usually ski Siberia, Emigrant, Shirley (crowded), Granite Chief (good in the spring) and sometimes The Saddle off KT. Haven't skied Alpine in decades but a good mountain.
But I do ski Northstar quite often so can suggest areas divas may want to check out. Also haven't skied Homewood in decades. I do manage to ski Mt Rose once or twice a year (usually March) and recently discovered some easy hikes and tree skiing on the Slide side. Front side groomers are nice with good steep pitch and will ski chutes only if good and nice snow.

Squaw doesn’t label anything as double black, so off KT, everything but Saddle (which is blue) is a single black diamond. I don’t think Alpine labels anything as double black either. So at those two resorts, there is a huge difference between black diamonds.

 

[santacruz skier]

So at those two resorts, there is a huge difference between black diamonds.

So true....... so if you ski black diamonds elsewhere, think twice before you think that the runs of KT 22 will be similar.......

 

[Pequenita]

Also, I want to acknowledge that @SierraLuLu mentioned the same thing I did. I hadn’t read up-thread when I posted.

 

[SierraLuLu]

So true....... so if you ski black diamonds elsewhere, think twice before you think that the runs of KT 22 will be similar.......

On that note, how bad are the K-22 runs? I go to Squaw every couple years or so, and I have not braved that area before.

 

[jumperlass]

But I also ski at a tiny little community "family-oriented" hill called Whaleback, and their signage categories are total mayhem. They groom with the enthusiasm level a teenager grudgingly gives to house chores.

Late to the game, but this made laugh aloud! I’m pretty sure my pass gives me 3 days at Whaleback. I didn’t go, though, since my older kid would probably have had to quarantine if I’d left the state. His school had very strict precautions in place in hopes of staying open all year. I guess now that I’m vaccinated my options are a little more open...but a lot of ski places aren’t.

 

[Pequenita]

On that note, how bad are the K-22 runs? I go to Squaw every couple years or so, and I have not braved that area before.

I’m not really sure how to answer this. I think the main thing is that the pitch is sustained and nothing is groomed. A number of the runs are visible off mountain run and empty out there. The runs left off the lift are more open than the ones to the right.

 

[santacruz skier]

On that note, how bad are the K-22 runs? I go to Squaw every couple years or so, and I have not braved that area before.

Oh I couldn't say as don't ski Squaw that often. They look pretty steep, narrow, and bumped out if you look up at them. Not enough experience in that area to comment. When at Squaw I mostly ski Granite Chief and Emigrant.