Best chance of good snow in mid December?

[marzNC]

You are running directly into the reasons why it's easier to plan a late season group trip than one during winter break. Although the problem then is that school breaks in the spring happen in multiple weeks. I remember one year when my father (professor), my brother (high school or college), and I (elementary school) didn't overlap at all.

Having paid more attention to New England weather this winter, there are times when Tremblant and Whiteface stay cold, but it rains in southern VT and Maine as the storm tracks into the northeast.

The advantage of Jay Peak is the resort lodging and the indoor waterpark.

If staying at Killington, if Pico is already open then could escape the crowds there. @SuperSkiMom and her family often drive from NYC to spend weekends skiing Pico. During another ski safari I had a great day at Pico (midweek) on the way to the Mad River Valley to check out Sugarbush and Mad River Glen. Quite a variety of terrain and very nice relaxed vibe.

Have you looked into Sugarbush? They have been putting in more snowmaking and generally upping their set up after joining the MCP. It's certainly a good family resort.

 

[Lmk92]

We were at sugarbush a couple of years ago and loved it. I didn't realize they were adding to their snow guns. They are definitely on the list. I hate to say it, but it looks like we're just going to have to watch the conditions and book last minute. I know we'll spend more, but maybe it's worth the gamble.

 

[marzNC]

We were at sugarbush a couple of years ago and loved it. I didn't realize they were adding to their snow guns. They are definitely on the list. I hate to say it, but it looks like we're just going to have to watch the conditions and book last minute. I know we'll spend more, but maybe it's worth the gamble.

Waiting makes sense to me. At least until the attempt at long term forecasts for the winter come out in the fall.

As far as I can tell, every destination resort that intends to be in business 10 years from now is investing in snowmaking one way or another. At least the ones in the U.S. There are also quite a few lift replacements happening over the summer or planned sooner rather than later. Below is what Sugarbush announced last summer for 2017-18.

https://www.sugarbush.com/discover/...-lifts-rfid-among-other-capital-improvements/

"Sugarbush Invests in New Lifts, RFID Among Other Capital Improvements
08/23/2017
Warren, VT (August 22, 2017) – Sugarbush Resort has invested in a number of capital improvement projects heading into the 2017/18 winter season to further provide a better mountain experience for guests.

The resort is replacing two of its older double lifts with new fixed-grip quads. The new Village Quad at Lincoln Peak (replacing the Village Double) and Sunshine Quad at Mt. Ellen (replacing the Sunshine Double) are expected to provide an improved beginner experience at both mountains while also increasing total uphill capacity. Sugarbush also regraded the area around both the lifts to be better suited for beginners.

. . .
The resort has invested in a number of other projects to improve the guest experience. These include: replacing an older air compressor with a new, adjustable compressor that allows control of the amount of air produced, thus reducing energy consumption; the purchase of additional SnowLogic low-energy snowmaking guns; replacement of the North Ridge Quad motor; the installation of new snowmaking pipe on Which Way and First Time; and the purchase of two new Pisten Bully groomers (one specifically designed for the terrain park)."

 

[SkiBam]

For that much driving from PA, might be worth looking into Whiteface or Tremblant. Tremblant would be crowded, but could spend a day in Montreal.

Tremblant wouldn't be crowded before Christmas. Only starts to get bad between Christmas and New Years. Mid December CAN be great - or not so much. There would be snowmaking runs, for sure, but for natural snow runs, no guarantees.

 

[marzNC]

Tremblant wouldn't be crowded before Christmas. Only starts to get bad between Christmas and New Years. Mid December CAN be great - or not so much. There would be snowmaking runs, for sure, but for natural snow runs, no guarantees.

The OP in Post #1 was asking about mid-December, but later on @Lmk92 asked about the holiday week. She would be driving from Pennsylvania.

Agree that mid-Dec is iffy in terms of snow on the ground in the northeast, even manmade. But the farther north, the more likely to have at least an assortment of green/blue trails to play on. I had a good time visiting you and checking out Tremblant the week after Thanksgiving even though not much was open. Of course, I was starting from Lake Placid, so the drive wasn't as big a deal.

I used to take my daughter to Massanutten (northern VA) the week before Christmas when she was learning. Only got completely skunked one winter. Usually had just enough for the children's ski school to be able to teach kids on the two greens and easy blue. The flip side was that we made friends with a family the year the slopes were closed because we did arts & crafts instead. Skied with them for a few years after that before the girls got too busy with school and other weekend stuff for skiing. That's the advantage of going to a location with non-skiing activities.

 

[Lmk92]

"As far as I can tell, every destination resort that intends to be in business 10 years from now is investing in snowmaking one way or another."

Trying to predict the weather has been pretty strange these past few years. When we went to Snowshoe (oh, was it 3 years ago now? or 4?), we had plenty of terrain just before New Years, and we definitely weren't complaining that it was too warm. Now, it seems winter has decided to start a bit later, and not really last very long. (I realize I'm saying this as we're all still wearing our winter coats in mid-April, but it's still not skiing weather here).

Investing in snow guns is a very smart move. I have noticed several resorts that have announced new guns. I don't keep a close eye on the Vermont resorts, so I missed Sugarbush. I'll have to start paying closer attention.

 

[SuperSkiMom]

You are running directly into the reasons why it's easier to plan a late season group trip than one during winter break. Although the problem then is that school breaks in the spring happen in multiple weeks. I remember one year when my father (professor), my brother (high school or college), and I (elementary school) didn't overlap at all.

Having paid more attention to New England weather this winter, there are times when Tremblant and Whiteface stay cold, but it rains in southern VT and Maine as the storm tracks into the northeast.

The advantage of Jay Peak is the resort lodging and the indoor waterpark.

If staying at Killington, if Pico is already open then could escape the crowds there. @SuperSkiMom and her family often drive from NYC to spend weekends skiing Pico. During another ski safari I had a great day at Pico (midweek) on the way to the Mad River Valley to check out Sugarbush and Mad River Glen. Quite a variety of terrain and very nice relaxed vibe.

Have you looked into Sugarbush? They have been putting in more snowmaking and generally upping their set up after joining the MCP. It's certainly a good family resort.

If you are planning on skiing in VT in Mid-December, Killington is probably the most reliable. They will be hosting the FIS World Cup again for a 3rd year in a row Thanksgiving weekend. With the weather as warm as it was up until days before Thanksgiving, I was worried that they were going to have to cancel the event. We skied at Killington November 11th this past season, with plenty of runs open off the K-1 gondola. I think Okemo opened November 18th (at least that was the 1st day we skied there) and Pico opened December 15th. We skied there that Saturday the 16th.

 

[Lmk92]

Oh, good to know. We may just end up going to Killington, along with the rest of the east coast skiers.

It really does come down to getting the most terrain for our bucks. I think the next thing to research is passes.

 

[Randi M.]

This is a very interesting thread.

I looked into multi-mountain passes and skiing in NY versus VT extensively and ultimately decided on the ORDA Ski 3 for 2018-2019. My hope is to spend Christmas week and President's week at Gore and/or Whiteface, with shorter daily/weekend trips to Belleyare. We live in NYC, so having access to a close mountain is a key factor. I didn't realize that the coverage at Gore was so bad Christmas week, though -- if it's cold enough, I'm surprised they wouldn't be blowing snow yet.

I've found that the amount of natural snowfall is pretty similar in VT and upstate NY, and that Whiteface seems to get the most snow of all. The difference is the artificial snow, and the VT mountains definitely do a better job of that. However, if the weather is too warm to blow snow, I actually think there is more for families to do at the NY mountains. Lake George, in particular, has a ton of indoor kid-friendly activities, like water parks, arcades, rock climbing, etc. And Lake Placid has spas (for me, not the kids) and other outdoor activities. So I figure, if the weather is really too warm, we'll have a better vacation in upstate NY than VT.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way? Very curious to know everyone's thoughts.

I agree that snow coverage is so unpredictable these days. This past Christmas week, we had a couple of great skiing days at Mountain Creek in NJ, of all places, while my sister in law and her kids didn't get a day of skiing at Aspen. Go figure.

 

[SuperSkiMom]

This is a very interesting thread.

I looked into multi-mountain passes and skiing in NY versus VT extensively and ultimately decided on the ORDA Ski 3 for 2018-2019. My hope is to spend Christmas week and President's week at Gore and/or Whiteface, with shorter daily/weekend trips to Belleyare. We live in NYC, so having access to a close mountain is a key factor. I didn't realize that the coverage at Gore was so bad Christmas week, though -- if it's cold enough, I'm surprised they wouldn't be blowing snow yet.

I've found that the amount of natural snowfall is pretty similar in VT and upstate NY, and that Whiteface seems to get the most snow of all. The difference is the artificial snow, and the VT mountains definitely do a better job of that. However, if the weather is too warm to blow snow, I actually think there is more for families to do at the NY mountains. Lake George, in particular, has a ton of indoor kid-friendly activities, like water parks, arcades, rock climbing, etc. And Lake Placid has spas (for me, not the kids) and other outdoor activities. So I figure, if the weather is really too warm, we'll have a better vacation in upstate NY than VT.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way? Very curious to know everyone's thoughts.

I agree that snow coverage is so unpredictable these days. This past Christmas week, we had a couple of great skiing days at Mountain Creek in NJ, of all places, while my sister in law and her kids didn't get a day of skiing at Aspen. Go figure.

We commute from NYC as well. So depending on how far you can travel weighs heavily on where you choose to go. We have been doing a season rental near Pico for the last 4 years. For most people that is just too far for a weekend. But for us, the extra commute is worth it. No lift lines, better snow and a "different vibe", then most closer to the city. Gore has a similar vibe and if you can make it to Whiteface, I agree there are more options for the kids.

If we are talking mid-December near the city for just skiing, I would have to say Hunter. They have unbelievable snow-making capability and are almost always open Thanksgiving Weekend. Mountain Creek can also crank out a lot of snow, but if the temperatures are not right, it can't happen.

Christmas Break..It was cold all over the NorthEast! We had planned on skiing 11/11 days, but we skipped the Saturday before Christmas, because it was raining and then January 1, we were just too tired from skiing in -30F.

BTW, Jay is best known for their snowfall, "The Jay Cloud". They also have an awesome waterpark for the kids and a spa for the moms.

 

[gingerskis]

I agree with Jay for the northeast, they always have a ton of natural snow and it's far enough out that there aren't any crowds. It's just so freaking cold there...

Originally I posted on here as more of a which multi pass to get brainstorming type of deal for a mid-December trip out west. Looks like we're leaning towards Ikon because of the options from both Denver and SLC. I wish they had a money down and pay the rest later option like the older passes. Last year I got my RMSP+ and paid it off all summer it was so much easier. I'd love to go to get an Epic pass and try Whistler but it's really hard to get to from the east coast for a reasonable price...and you need a full travel day on each end of the trip.

 

[Powgirl]

I agree with Jay for the northeast, they always have a ton of natural snow and it's far enough out that there aren't any crowds. It's just so freaking cold there...

Originally I posted on here as more of a which multi pass to get brainstorming type of deal for a mid-December trip out west. Looks like we're leaning towards Ikon because of the options from both Denver and SLC. I wish they had a money down and pay the rest later option like the older passes. Last year I got my RMSP+ and paid it off all summer it was so much easier. I'd love to go to get an Epic pass and try Whistler but it's really hard to get to from the east coast for a reasonable price...and you need a full travel day on each end of the trip.

Yes, I am disappointed, too, in the new pass that replaces RMSP+...they have blackout dates (Christmas) and we have to buy it before May 1st or it goes up $100. No installments!

With that said, Steamboat is usually a safe bet for mid December...in the 6 years I've skied there, there is always that beautiful, fluffy champagne powder in mid December.

But, it's a gamble...

 

[SuperSkiMom]

I agree with Jay for the northeast, they always have a ton of natural snow and it's far enough out that there aren't any crowds. It's just so freaking cold there...

Originally I posted on here as more of a which multi pass to get brainstorming type of deal for a mid-December trip out west. Looks like we're leaning towards Ikon because of the options from both Denver and SLC. I wish they had a money down and pay the rest later option like the older passes. Last year I got my RMSP+ and paid it off all summer it was so much easier. I'd love to go to get an Epic pass and try Whistler but it's really hard to get to from the east coast for a reasonable price...and you need a full travel day on each end of the trip.

@gingerskis Yes, I did not see a thread on the available passes that are being offered this year. It is certainly not as good as last year, for East Coast skiers. We were able to do the Max Pass add-on with our Pico season pass this year. Too bad there is no add-on with the Ikon.

We are kind of torn as well, between Ikon and Epic. We may just have to skip the West and head to Europe.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

I love Lake Placid/Whiteface over Thanksgiving. I go to LP with a non-skiing DH and it's great to have a lot of non-ski activities and great restaurants in LP. I usually ski 1/2 day and the other 1/2 day is sightseeing, hiking shopping with DH. Whiteface usually has 1 top to bottom trail that has maybe 2000 ft of vertical so it's great, sometimes there are even more trails that are open. The snow is usually quite good for early season, they had fresh natural snow several times I was there over Thanksgiving.

 

[marzNC]

I agree with Jay for the northeast, they always have a ton of natural snow and it's far enough out that there aren't any crowds. It's just so freaking cold there...

Originally I posted on here as more of a which multi pass to get brainstorming type of deal for a mid-December trip out west. Looks like we're leaning towards Ikon because of the options from both Denver and SLC. I wish they had a money down and pay the rest later option like the older passes. Last year I got my RMSP+ and paid it off all summer it was so much easier. I'd love to go to get an Epic pass and try Whistler but it's really hard to get to from the east coast for a reasonable price...and you need a full travel day on each end of the trip.

Sorry for the slightly off-topic discussion.

When and where would you use the multi-resort pass besides December?

@gingerskis Yes, I did not see a thread on the available passes that are being offered this year. It is certainly not as good as last year, for East Coast skiers. We were able to do the Max Pass add-on with our Pico season pass this year. Too bad there is no add-on with the Ikon.

We are kind of torn as well, between Ikon and Epic. We may just have to skip the West and head to Europe.

The thread with info about all the multi-resort threads was more active in March when details weren't available for the Ikon pass yet. Or the price for the Epic pass for that matter.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?threads/multi-ski-area-pass-comparison.22583/

 

[gingerskis]

The only trip I can definitively plan for is the one in December, but it makes sense to me to get a multi pass because lift tickets are so high that once you're done with a week lifts for the rest of the season become "paid for" in a way by just breaking even on the pass. Especially if we end up doing a week at Steamboat - their individual lifts are just so insane it's almost a waste of money not to get the pass that includes the other mountains. Hopefully I get a free weekend or two to get to Snowshoe or up to Vermont in February. This year I found a random four days and made it out to Copper so I'd be bummed to not have that option if I just went for a single mountain pass based on where we go for the trip.

 

[Randi M.]

The only trip I can definitively plan for is the one in December, but it makes sense to me to get a multi pass because lift tickets are so high that once you're done with a week lifts for the rest of the season become "paid for" in a way by just breaking even on the pass. Especially if we end up doing a week at Steamboat - their individual lifts are just so insane it's almost a waste of money not to get the pass that includes the other mountains. Hopefully I get a free weekend or two to get to Snowshoe or up to Vermont in February. This year I found a random four days and made it out to Copper so I'd be bummed to not have that option if I just went for a single mountain pass based on where we go for the trip.

If cost is a factor, also check out other costs like lessons. I almost bought Epic based on Stowe alone thinking I could handle the $500 difference in Passes for our family but ski school is over $200 per kid per day! That was the line for us.

 

[ilovepugs]

Waiting makes sense to me. At least until the attempt at long term forecasts for the winter come out in the fall.

As far as I can tell, every destination resort that intends to be in business 10 years from now is investing in snowmaking one way or another. At least the ones in the U.S. There are also quite a few lift replacements happening over the summer or planned sooner rather than later. Below is what Sugarbush announced last summer for 2017-18.

https://www.sugarbush.com/discover/...-lifts-rfid-among-other-capital-improvements/

"Sugarbush Invests in New Lifts, RFID Among Other Capital Improvements
08/23/2017
Warren, VT (August 22, 2017) – Sugarbush Resort has invested in a number of capital improvement projects heading into the 2017/18 winter season to further provide a better mountain experience for guests.

The resort is replacing two of its older double lifts with new fixed-grip quads. The new Village Quad at Lincoln Peak (replacing the Village Double) and Sunshine Quad at Mt. Ellen (replacing the Sunshine Double) are expected to provide an improved beginner experience at both mountains while also increasing total uphill capacity. Sugarbush also regraded the area around both the lifts to be better suited for beginners.

. . .
The resort has invested in a number of other projects to improve the guest experience. These include: replacing an older air compressor with a new, adjustable compressor that allows control of the amount of air produced, thus reducing energy consumption; the purchase of additional SnowLogic low-energy snowmaking guns; replacement of the North Ridge Quad motor; the installation of new snowmaking pipe on Which Way and First Time; and the purchase of two new Pisten Bully groomers (one specifically designed for the terrain park)."

Jumping in a little late... yes!!! They’ve made a lot of improvements over the last few years. The owner is an ex-New York finance guy with a passion for skiing who’s very active in supporting the community. I’m really proud to know him and support the work that the Sugarbush folks do... my company has a business relationship with them.

Prior to the installation of the new beginner lifts, the year before, Sugarbush installed a new quad at the Valley House which serves north-facing spring skiing oriented terrain, mostly blue and black trails. They blew a ton of snow on the Valley House terrain throughout the season. It’s a Sugarbush classic (nothing like doing laps bombing down the blue trails there... they’re fun and wide) and I remember it being pretty good when I went there early in the season this season even with the freeze thaw cycles we experienced.

 

[MissySki]

@Lmk92 I think Sunday River is one of the best bets in New England for Christmas to New Years week, they have such great snowmaking as long as the temperatures allow for it. You can still expect crowds as with anywhere on a vacation week, but I don't think it compares to Killington/Okemo/Mount Snow/Stratton area weekend/holiday crowds. It's always my number one pick, but I may be biased! I'm hoping to be there that week as well, we'll see, if so I'd love to meet up if you end up picking it for your group's destination!

 

[marzNC]

The only trip I can definitively plan for is the one in December, but it makes sense to me to get a multi pass because lift tickets are so high that once you're done with a week lifts for the rest of the season become "paid for" in a way by just breaking even on the pass. Especially if we end up doing a week at Steamboat - their individual lifts are just so insane it's almost a waste of money not to get the pass that includes the other mountains. Hopefully I get a free weekend or two to get to Snowshoe or up to Vermont in February. This year I found a random four days and made it out to Copper so I'd be bummed to not have that option if I just went for a single mountain pass based on where we go for the trip.

My guess is that your thinking is exactly what the people who came up with multi-resort pass pricing are hoping that travelers would consider. Meaning buy a multi-resort pass to cover one trip out west, with hopes of using it more. That's essentially what I did the first time I bought the MCP. I knew it was be worthwhile for a week at Alta/Snowbird for a spring break trip. Then started planning a mid-season trip based on going to another MCP location.

Can make more sense to pick a pass based on where you want to go, as opposed worrying about snow conditions in Dec.