Help Needed: Are my boots too big or do my liners need replacing?

[water.rat]

I came late to skiing but over the last few years my skills have improved and I am tackling more challenging terrain. It seems the more I try to work on my technique, the less happy I am with my boots.
My boots are fairly old (6 to 7 years - don't remember exactly) but I only ski 12 or so days a year. They are Lange CRL 80 Woman's fit. They still have the stock liners (made with packed down). Last year I got custom footbeds and some adjustments done to the boot - that was a revelation! I also had just got my Bushwackers. New skis and work on my boots gave me the confidence to start going off the groom more and tackling steeper runs.
But now I'm feeling that wasn't enough. In trying to pay more attention to what my feet are doing, I realized the other day I was scrunching them up in an effort to fill up the space between my boot and the top of my foot. Is this what you ladies mean by liners being "packed out"? Or maybe they were always like that and I am only noticing now that I am skiing harder.
Without the liner, I can *just* get 2 fingers between my heel (where it curves out the most) and the shell, with my toes just touching the front of the boot. I can get 2 fingers between my ankle bone and the shell, when the other side of the ankle is touching the shell. The boot is a 39, which is the size I wear in everything else. (And according to Lange is half way between 25 and 25.5.) The liner alone feels snug everywhere around my foot with the custom foot bed in it. But when everything is on my foot and all the buckles cinched down as tight as they will go, it feels like my foot is not held in place.
Have read a bunch of SkiDiva threads on boots over the years and have come to the conclusion I have "low volume" feet. I already knew I had narrow feet, flat arches, pronation, and skinny, boney ankles. So now I can add low volume to the list. So flattering! :-) Oh - and my feet are always cold!
So I'm not sure how to fix my current issue. Do I put something between the sole of my liner and the boot to take up space? Or replace my liners? I have read many posts about Zipfits and Intuition. Or do I replace the whole set up and hope to find some new boots that have a stock liner that will work, at least for a few seasons. Probably can't afford to do new boots and zipfits in one go.
My daughter got some Fulltilt boots and they have the Intuition liners - anyone know anything about those? I tried hers on but they were too big so it was hard to tell anything. (As an aside... I am so happy for her. She came over from the dark side since her young man skis. Boyfriends are good for something :-)
Appreciate any advice! Thanks!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Without the liner, I can *just* get 2 fingers between my heel (where it curves out the most) and the shell, with my toes just touching the front of the boot. I can get 2 fingers between my ankle bone and the shell, when the other side of the ankle is touching the shell.

Um, yeah, those are too big for you.

My daughter got some Fulltilt boots and they have the Intuition liners - anyone know anything about those? I tried hers on but they were too big so it was hard to tell anything.

I love them. The warmest liners I've ever had. They can be molded when you buy them, so you don't have to break them in as much on the hill. The ones with the tongue have a really bad reputation for being stupid soft, but I put the wrap-around into my Tecnicas. But honestly anything would be better than a shell where you can put two fingers behind your heel.

 

[mustski]

^^^ agreed. Those sound too big. I always have a problem with too big around my heel and ankle. God has a sense of humor and apparently giving me skinny ass heels and ankles (while the rest is more robust) is funny! I like intuition liners. I have had both the type that have to be specially molded and the type you can break in while skiing. They are both good, but all liners will only fit as well as the shell they fill. Start with a reputable boot fitter if you can.

 

[Jilly]

From what you've said. .too big. Get thee to a boot fitter.

 

[volklgirl]

Cranking all the buckles down = too big. Sorry.

 

[santacruz skier]

I have intuition dream liners... They have changed the way boots fit in a very good way. Also have low volume feet.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Cranking all the buckles down = too big. Sorry.

Excellent point.

 

[water.rat]

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me! That confirms my suspicions. So I looked at the SkiDiva boot fitter list... is it really true there is only one recommended boot fitter in Oregon? I was originally thinking of going to the shop up at Mt. Hood Meadows but I don't see them on the list. That's where I got the custom footbeds and adjustments to my current boots to make them stop hurting. I'm pretty sure they adjust equipment you buy from them for free and it would certainly be convenient. But I guess that's no advantage if they don't have the skill to do it right. And to the ladies who have Intuition liners... do you get the liners and fit the boots with them? Or buy boots and get liners that fit the boots?

 

[bounceswoosh]

Thanks so much for taking the time to help me! That confirms my suspicions. So I looked at the SkiDiva boot fitter list... is it really true there is only one recommended boot fitter in Oregon? I was originally thinking of going to the shop up at Mt. Hood Meadows but I don't see them on the list. That's where I got the custom footbeds and adjustments to my current boots to make them stop hurting. I'm pretty sure they adjust equipment you buy from them for free and it would certainly be convenient. But I guess that's no advantage if they don't have the skill to do it right. And to the ladies who have Intuition liners... do you get the liners and fit the boots with them? Or buy boots and get liners that fit the boots?

The boot fitter list can't be exhaustive. I'm sure there are plenty of great boot fitters who aren't on the list.

My Dalbello Kryptons came with Intuition liners 5 or 6 years ago. After a few years, I thought the liners were pretty packed out, so I had them replaced with similar Intuitions. Then when I bought my Tecnicas, I couldn't get them warm enough. After fiddling with the boots and liners for a few rounds, I swapped in the Intuitions - and my feet were instantly much happier.

Note that Intuition tongue liners are considered kind of terrible - too soft. The wrap-arounds enjoy a better reputation, but they also stiffen the boot considerably. When I switched to Intuitions, my boot got a lot stiffer, but there is a rebound adjustment (I think that's what it was) that effectively made the boot feel more flexy.

 

[Pequenita]

That's where I got the custom footbeds and adjustments to my current boots to make them stop hurting. I'm pretty sure they adjust equipment you buy from them for free and it would certainly be convenient. But I guess that's no advantage if they don't have the skill to do it right.

I personally wouldn't go back to the person you went to last time because I'm surprised they didn't say anything about your boot fit. Every time I've gone into a shop with my boots, they have done at least a shell fit. Even if the shop didn't sell the boots to you, whoever worked with you should have remarked on the fit or something. That being said, it is possible there are other people at the shop who are better to work with.

Other than the big box stores, it is pretty much industry standard that everyone who sells boots will make adjustments on those boots for free.

 

[vickie]

If I was looking in Oregon, I'd first look around Bachelor. Not that Hood Meadows couldn't have a good bootfitter, but ... if I was a good bootfitter, is that where I'd go to make a good living? I doubt it. There is neither a mountain nor a large local population to support my business.

My next boots may come from Tahoe.