Another never ending boot saga..

[MissySki]

In barefeet you have no dorsiflexion, you may have tight hip flexors and strectched glures causing an inability to keep the knee over the second and third toes when flexed. I agree with Jilly, not the boots. When the bootfitter changed your cuffs he forced the knee to travel in the right direction but it hurt because it was forced. I would liken it to showing up for the test without doing any of the coursework.

Interesting, I do tend to have tight hip flexors in general as you mentioned. Over the summer I had to stretch them constantly for workouts I was doing or they'd be screaming at me for days after particular ones..

So is this something I should be trying to correct in my skiing without adjusting my boots somehow??? I'm sure of where to start exactly if this is the case. :/ Do I need to stretch more, is it drills I need to do to retrain my muscle memory? Work with an instructor on it in particular?

I definitely think I'm going to grab my footbeds out of my boots this weekend too for analysis just in case they are for some reason forcing me into this alignment? I get what you are saying about being barefoot and not having dorsiflexion, but if my current boots are the only ones causing this alignment problem to be measurable in the shop and other boots are not, couldn't it still be these boots or something in these boots? Hence another good reason to demo that other pair of boots to see what happens I guess.. skiing something else is a pretty good test, and having DH take video.

@MissySki, I ski for fun, and in the spirit of having fun, I can say I have a ton of fun skiing behind you and watching you ski! You are a joy to watch...I have on several occasions stopped worrying about how I am skiing as I think "wow, she is such a pretty skier". You look effortless, and I have never once thought "too bad she is A-framing". OK, I couldn't have thought that actually since I didn't know what it was anyway That said, if it bothers you that likely takes away your fun, so you should see what you can do, right?

I know I'm doing the race program this year to improve, but it's really given a massive blow to my ski confidence so far this season and made me really self conscious.. guess I need to toughen up? This from the girl who wanted more feedback and criticism than I was getting in the women's group last year.. careful what you wish for? haha

However, your kind words mean more than you know, and are much appreciated. Trust me, I almost never feel effortless skiing, and you look awesome out there too!!

 

[Jilly]

That's an A frame. See how the angles between the knee and ankles are not the same. Nor are the knee in alignment with each other. The spacebetween the knees and feet form as A.

 

[MissySki]

And even just standing on skis, many of my pics look like this with the thighs and knees glued together and that blasted A below. lol Crazy part is it doesn't "feel" like I'm doing this when I'm in the moment at all, it's just where everything falls.. Most obvious when I'm in a group photo head on and everyone else's legs are nice and straight.

 

[ride_ski]

Sorry you have been going through this- I had no idea. I can totally see how stressful it could be. Trying new boots may be a good idea since you have so many days on yours now, anyways.

 

[MissySki]

The most stressful and confusing part is feeling good, but being told it's wrong and then feeling bad, but being told it looks good alignment wise! lol

Then it all just makes you doubt yourself, like I apparently cannot tell which way is up so..

 

[climbingbetty]

View attachment 3358 View attachment 3359
And even just standing on skis, many of my pics look like this with the thighs and knees glued together and that blasted A below. lol Crazy part is it doesn't "feel" like I'm doing this when I'm in the moment at all, it's just where everything falls.. Most obvious when I'm in a group photo head on and everyone else's legs are nice and straight.

Looking at these photos, I think the problem, at least in part, is your Q angle and anteversion of the femoral neck. Both are to a certain extent, just the shape of your femur.

Leg length discrepancies can be functional or skeletal. In the case of functional, the ilium rotates forward or back, at the sacroiliac joint and can make the leg function as if it is shorter by "pulling it up" so to speak. When I had my boots tweaked a little bit ago, I was "K-framing" with a longer right leg bending in toward the left. I also tend to have issues at the sacroiliac joint, primarily due to sitting with my legs crossed all the time, so I believe. Anyway, as the boot fitter was explaining my alignment issue to me, my chiropractor head was saying, "you probably should be adjusted before he shaves down that boot..." So just know, some alignment issues are you, in all your unique, imperfect glory. Some can even be fixed by the right person. As for stretches and self-care, I would highly, highly recommend the work of Katy Bowman at Aligned and Well, who not only understands alignment better that anyone I've seen, she also can explain it and its importance better that anyone!!! Though it doesn't related directly to skiing, it does relate to your overall health, which leads to more skiing :-)

Lastly, I just want to say...skiing is your hobby, right? You do it for fun? You have a 9 to 5 job that pays the bills and provides you with plenty of stress that you took up skiing to deal with? You have no plans or aspirations to be an Olympic or World Cup ski racer??? Great, then let it go. Have fun. Enjoy it for what it is! If you feel great on your skis, who cares if your race coach says you're alignment is wrong??? Unless you really are trying to be a professional racer, who cares??? Don't let this stress turn skiing into a J-O-B because then its no fun. Go with the boot fitter who shares this perspective. Follow your intuition if its telling you to ignore race coach's advice. If need be, read this great article I found today about not caring about things not worth caring about. (Or not, if you are highly adverse to the liberal use of the F-bomb.)

Above all- HAVE FUN!!!

ETA: this is coming from someone who has been there and back again.. just with climbing instead of skiing. The more stress I added to the equation by having to achieve x, y or z, the less fun it became. The more I just focused on fun.. the better I magically got at it!

 

[frenchgirl]

If it were me I would go all the way to Vermont if you think you will get the best boot fitting experience. I live 10 hours from my boot fitter and would not hesitate to get another boot from him. Actually o drove all the way to get some custom insoles for my boots

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

wow, that stinks. Sorry you are having these issues. I think I'd be inclined to try new boots--mainly because it sounds like you were going to get them pretty soon anyway and if there's a chance something different will be better for you, why not give it a go sooner than later? It sounds like you are no longer feeling like your current boots are "right" for you.
That being said, since skiing is (presumably) supposed to be a fun sport/hobby and you are not in training for the Olympics or to appear in extreme ski movies, nothing wrong with just going with what feels right as opposed to trying correct alignment and ending up getting injured because someone is forcing your knees into a position they just don't want to be in.

At least if you tried new boots then you'd know whether it's your current set up or something more.

I know it's a tough call though---I've had my own share of boot and alignment sagas and having a hard time getting satisfactory resolutions. It really can start to take over your life!

 

[litterbug]

Interesting, I do tend to have tight hip flexors in general as you mentioned. Over the summer I had to stretch them constantly for workouts I was doing or they'd be screaming at me for days after particular ones..

So is this something I should be trying to correct in my skiing without adjusting my boots somehow??? I'm sure of where to start exactly if this is the case. :/ Do I need to stretch more, is it drills I need to do to retrain my muscle memory? Work with an instructor on it in particular?

My completely amateur guess is that your tight hip flexors could be a result of adapting to alignment problems, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have a feedback thing going where the tight hip flexors make adaptation harder.

If I don't do anything about it, my pelvis tends to be kind of twisted and my right hip adductor (or whatever you call the one that extends the leg to the side) and rotators will a horrible charlie horse while I'm sleeping. Stretching helps, but the best solution, aside from going back to boring PT exercises I was given long ago, is at least a minimal number of seated and standing yoga poses, which can actually even out my pelvis a little and help with the flexibility issues. I'm also a big proponent of PT so long as the PT understands the sport you're working with; the best PTs are experts at figuring out alignment problems and figuring out how to strengthen, stretch and balance soft tissue for the maximum improvement possible in a specific situation. In other words, they can't fix a structurally defective joint or femur, but they can work with the surrounding tissues to maximize your function.

I know I'm doing the race program this year to improve, but it's really given a massive blow to my ski confidence so far this season and made me really self conscious.. guess I need to toughen up? This from the girl who wanted more feedback and criticism than I was getting in the women's group last year.. careful what you wish for? haha

I hate that; I want feedback too, because I want badly to improve, but for me learning something that doesn't come immediately to me always produces some anxiety. Still, it's worth trying to figure out how to make this work without ruining your skiing enjoyment.

Is the instructor acting like he can't teach you because of your A-frame? Is he obsessed with producing World Cup skiers? Or can you tell him you just want to progress as much as you can despite the A-frame, and ask him to lay off his obsession with your boot setup? And maybe most importantly, is there another instructor you can ask to work with if he insists that he's right and won't let go of it?

If it were me I would go all the way to Vermont if you think you will get the best boot fitting experience. I live 10 hours from my boot fitter and would not hesitate to get another boot from him. Actually o drove all the way to get some custom insoles for my boots

I like this idea, too. It sounds like there's a bit too much going on with all these other guys who're sincerely trying to help. I could be wrong; maybe the new bootfitters are brilliant and will make everything right, but I'd hate constant tweaking, trying new boots, trying to do things by process of elimination, week after week...yecch!

 

[SkiBilly]

It's time for new boots! With 200 days up and the chance of not having your pick of stock later in the season...I would say definitely go with it.

On the positive side, the rigmarole you have endured has given you a huge amount of information, insight and experience regarding your ski gear and that is priceless.

When I got my new boots last season my second pair

 

[SkiBilly]

Sorry stuffed up my last post; I wanted to add...when I got my new boots last season (only my second pair, but with custom foot beds this time) I was pretty clueless and skied for almost a week with screaming calves, thinking it was normal because I had to wear them in (I didn't really wear them around the house like last time , I just skied in them after two hours....couldn't wait).

In so much pain, I finally went back to the boot fitter and he put in (tiny) heal lifts...omg! problem solved...duh! I naively thought the 'custom' foot beds would be perfect on the first fit.

 

[Jilly]

I'm looking at your pictures and I'm seeing a knock knee....I don't remember seeing that before...That could be part of the problem.... Just standing there and your knees are together...

Got any video of you skiing?

 

[santacruz skier]

I'm looking at your pictures and I'm seeing a knock knee....I don't remember seeing that before...That could be part of the problem.... Just standing there and your knees are together...

Got any video of you skiing?

How do you correct knock knees? I am a bit knock kneed but have always "blamed" it on me , not the boots…. Do you know of a way to correct that problem? Just curious..

 

[Skisailor]

How do you correct knock knees? I am a bit knock kneed but have always "blamed" it on me , not the boots…. Do you know of a way to correct that problem? Just curious..

Check out this thread. And in particular, check out the pdf "Does the boot fit" that Ursula links to in one of her posts.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...e-intermediate-range.17407/page-2#post-252243

 

[santacruz skier]

Check out this thread. And in particular, check out the pdf "Does the boot fit" that Ursula links to in one of her posts.

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...e-intermediate-range.17407/page-2#post-252243

I guess I should say if I get on a super steep run or big bump run, I tend to get a little knock kneed. Thanks for referring me to the pdf. Ursula sounds amazing…. Should I admit I haven't had a lesson in well over 10 years….. and have been skiing over 35 years….. so i'm not exactly new to skiing...

 

[MissySki]

I'm looking at your pictures and I'm seeing a knock knee....I don't remember seeing that before...That could be part of the problem.... Just standing there and your knees are together...

Got any video of you skiing?

Right, so I'm knock kneed in the boots, but supposedly not out of them and in others boots.. Which I don't really understand.

I do have video, though may not be able to upload it until I'm back home after the weekend. Internet is spotty at the condo.

 

[whitewater girl]

years ago I got custom footbeds that put me in a bad A-Frame stance (I always A-Frame some) - try it without the footbeds & see how it goes (fyi: my A-Framing seems largely to come from my right hip wanting to rotate inwards)

(oh, and a 2 degree cant on your cuff is ALOT! No wonder your knee hurt)

 

[MaineSkiLady]

@MissySki - It’s time. You’re at the end of your rope. Agree with @climbingbetty above. Time to cut your losses and officially move on, close that door. Officially. Possibly even take a break from this weekend clinic and deal with lift lines. Go “hide” over in Aurora! Or - better yet - spend a whole day getting dialed in to something else.

It happens to all of us. In looking back, I’ve had boots “crash” after 4 years (possibly sooner??). In my case, a once-great fit was history. Pain. Done.

The reason or source isn’t even important anymore. You just need to be done with the boots - if for no other reason than your mental health!

Wishing you tons of luck - there IS something out there that will work for you!!

 

[Gloria]

So is this something I should be trying to correct in my skiing without adjusting my boots somehow??? I'm sure of where to start exactly if this is the case. :/ Do I need to stretch more, is it drills I need to do to retrain my muscle memory? Work with an instructor on it in particular?

Looking at these photos, I think the problem, at least in part, is your Q angle and anteversion of the femoral neck. Both are to a certain extent, just the shape of your femur.
So just know, some alignment issues are you, in all your unique, imperfect glory. Some can even be fixed by the right person. As for stretches and self-care, I would highly, highly recommend the work of Katy Bowman at Aligned and Well, who not only understands alignment better that anyone I've seen, she also can explain it and its importance better that anyone!!! Though it doesn't related directly to skiing, it does relate to your overall health, which leads to more skiing :-)

Yes and Yes. I think money spent on finding a professional that can help you fix the issue permanently would be better spent then on a bootfitter. Overall health is the key issue, not only will it help your skiing but will help every other aspect of your life as well. A Physical Therapist, Chiropractor, or Postural Alignment Specialist could all help you with exercises to correct the problem with similiar charges to a bootfitter but will fix the problem overall instead of just in your boots. Often times it's simply a matter of learning the right stretches and exercises and doing them and most Physical Therapists for instance can prescribe these in just a couple sessions depending on how deeply the problem is rooted. At the very least look into the book noted above.

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

Right, so I'm knock kneed in the boots, but supposedly not out of them and in others boots.. Which I don't really understand.

I have a similar issue---not really knock kneed, but 2 instructors have told me that I ride the inside edges of my skis (slightly)--that my skis are not flat. But then when I go into the shop to have my alignment looked at in the boots, they never find anything. Apparently I'm standing flat in the shop, but when I get on skis I'm on the inside edge a little bit (yup, I have custom foot beds---2 different pairs in fact).
So, I know what it feels like to have an issue and have no idea why or where it's coming from---annoying and disappointing!