Another never ending boot saga..

[MissySki]

So I've posted my whole boot saga elsewhere both pre and during my current Fischer Vacuum Trinity 110 boots. This is my fourth season in these boots. The first few were a struggle.. at first I felt great, then things loosened up so I re-vacuumed and never felt balanced again and could never really get out of the back seat. It got better once I changed bootfitters last season, but was still a work in progress due to my proximity to the fitter. Last year I took a season long women's clinic and was always told my form looked good, but my burning quads and lack of fore aft balance seemed to disagree. Finally before this season started I got toe lifts and everything felt awesome for around the first 16 days this season, I felt sooooo balanced and in control like I haven't in a long time. It was very obvious even in that I started skiing a lot faster again because I finally felt stable, my speed decreased a lot in the last couple of seasons due to feeling out of balance constantly.

So what changed from early season? I started doing a season long race clinic in December, and on day one I was told by one of the instructors that's also a bootfitter on the mountain to come see him after the clinic that day to do some boot adjusting because I was A-framing a lot. He had said that while I was A-framing I had obviously adjusted to skiing that way because all of my angles on each ski matched etc. (so why change??? lol) I was very apprehensive about changing anything because I've had so much done to my boots and finally felt good. He ended up adjusting my cuffs out by what he said was a couple of degrees on each foot, even standing there I felt a big difference in my hips. The next day I skied and while it felt a little funny, my A-frame was drastically better, I could both see that for myself in my skier shadow and in video and felt it. Eventually it felt pretty good on my race skis.

Fast forward to the next week and I still felt good on my race skis, but whenever I went onto fatter skis I felt awkward and hitting ice was a major catastrophe that caused my skis to completely slide out from behind me whether fat or skinny which doesn't normally happen to me as I've become pretty good at skiing on ice in general so this was very disconcerting. My right knee was also feeling tweaked and like I especially couldn't get to that inside edge without a major amount of effort and bummer of all bummers I started feeling more in the backseat again and like I couldn't turn as quickly as normal. This was the beginning to a week of major frustration and feeling uncomfortable skiing again. IS it in my head, how can such seemingly small changes feel like they make a hugely awful difference in my skiing??

Long story short, I went back and forth a few times with that bootfitter/instructor on some fit issues that suddenly popped up and just didn't feel like we were meshing as bootfitter/skier relationships go and everything he did made things feel worse. So I started seeing one of the other bootfitters on mountain that DH has dealt with in the past, and he fixed my fit issues and had me try a bunch of stuff throughout last week for alignment with tape, softening my boots, drills on the snow to give him feedback and lifting one of my race ski plates because he saw a leg length discrepancy etc. He also changed my cuffs back at the end of the week saying that where I originally had them seemed correct versus where they had been changed to and that's probably why my knee was feeling strained. I felt amazing skiing on my last day up last weekend in fresh powder, but the A-frame was definitely back and now very obvious to me haha. Bootfitter's advice was just forget all this crap go have fun in the fresh snow, and we'd get back to it this weekend or whenever I wanted to. This is why I mesh well with him. Lot's of women A-frame, but it is a top thing you usually want to mitigate in your alignment. He even had me pull up pics of Julia Mancuso to show me how even she A-frames to some extent in many of them.. so now I have a bootfitter/psychologist to cheer me up which was much appreciated at that point in my day/week.

So I have this problem that I feel much better A-framing than "correcting" my alignment in these boots, but I go to race clinic and then it's all "you're A-framing again, and now your edge angles aren't matching blah blah blah" I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall and feel like crap when I'm there now. The new fitter I've been working with is great, and I trust that if I start over in a new boot with him I can likely be much more aligned (he is very confident that he can get me there which is semi contagious? Nervous too though because everyone thinks they can fix me and then doesn't completely).

Every boot I've tried on and being barefoot has me in almost neutral alignment where my current wicked modified/customized boots throw my knees inside by at least 2 degrees on each foot. I really love my bootfitter that I've been seeing previous to this, but he is all the way in Vermont so it's tempting to start just going to someone on mountain where I can go in and out with tweaks and get adjustments as needed since I'm always there. (I feel bad though, like if you cheat on your hairdresser.. not sure if that's the same thing in bootfitting though haha) I'm also scared as heck to start over and go through the pain of breaking in a new boot since my current ones fit like a wonderful glove, but apparently wreak havoc on my alignment. I also semi agree with the new fitter that it's best to start over with one person who will know exactly what's been done versus a boot that has had like 4 different fitters working in it and not knowing who has done what etc before them.

So would you start over??? I originally was going to wait until next season, but now it seems I should just go for it? It's either that or just be comfortable in my misalignment and say screw it? lol There is always the doubt in the back of my mind too that says I'll probably just be all out of alignment in new boots too since this has always been the way it goes with me..

Sorry for the novel, I should have been documenting this in smaller chunks as it was happening, but it really got me in a down funk of a mood and I was too depressed to share. And this is all besides the fact that it's super awkward going into the shop when my instructor and the other fitter I want to work with are both there because my instructor still tries to give input that's always seemingly in complete contrast to what we are doing. I spoke to some other people in my seasonal program who also got fitted by our instructor in the past and they had bad experiences and told me to steer clear which backed up what I had been feeling about it. I'm ultimately going to go with who I feel comfortable with and confident in, but it does make for some awkwardness since I have lots left in the seasonal program.. I might be overanalyzing the issue, but DH also found it awkward so I can't be all wrong

Thoughts, comments, suggestions??

 

[Jilly]

Ask your instructor if your A frame is caused by your knees. That is my problem. It's not the boots, its ME!. The edges are not equal because my uphill knee is not going into the inside of the turn. I need to actually push the knee into the hill with my hand to get the feeling. I've been told for years that I'm not edging my uphill ski, but no body till last week could tell why. It was "get your feet apart, get your feet apart". It's not my feet, its my knees!

So look into those knees and see if they are at the same angles or are causing the A frame to start with.

 

[MissySki]

He originally said something about my A-frame because when I'd ski up to him on a flat to the lift he said my knees were touching and my skis were nowhere near touching. Do you have this issue as well, or do you only A-frame in your turns?

I will definitely look into this as I don't think my inside knee goes into the mountain much either. I guess the question then is whether the boot alignment hurts this as well, or if it's much more muscle memory from skiing this way?

One of the boots I tried on as an alternative that puts me in a more neutral position is available for me to "demo" because they have a used pair one size up from mine and said I could take it out just to see how it felt to be in a boot where my alignment is more neutral rather than going inside. This could be a good test to see if I am still A-framing due to knees if my alignment is supposedly good at the bench. Then I'd get some feel for what this boot would feel like if I went with it in my correct size.

Current bootfitter also said he'd come out and ski with me at some point so he can see me outside of video analysis we brought to him.

 

[contesstant]

I have to say, I would just say screw it and A-frame away if you are having fun and skiing well in spite of it! Unless you REALLY care about the racing aspect, then consider fixing it.

Also, demoing a boot like you mentioned above is a great idea. My advice there is to demo it more than once OR in the conditions you will normally encounter.

 

[MissySki]

I just wish I could demo all of the potential boots! Unfortunately Sunday River doesn't do that, and therefore the one I'd get to try is pretty atypical. It was a return so they'll end up selling it off at some point. Perhaps I should look around and see if somewhere else nearby demos boots and has the few we narrow it down to when the time comes.

DH keeps going between the camps of "just A-frame if it feels good" and "just get new boots then you'll have 2 options" lol The sale price of the boots we are looking at are quite cheap compared to my current boots.

No matter what I'd get boots next season because I'll have close to 200 days on mine by then and wouldn't want to chance needing boots midseason with low inventory.. So even if I don't get them now, at least it's a step in that direction.

 

[bounceswoosh]

No matter what I'd get boots next season because I'll have close to 200 days on mine by then and wouldn't want to chance needing boots midseason with low inventory.

This was a big reason I went for new boots. I don't have 200 days on mine, but I knew I wanted to replace them by next year anyway ... and I dread threading that "late enough for all the stock to arrive but early enough for stuff to not be sold out" needle. Then when an instructor I trust deeply suggested my boots were holding me back ... that tipped me into the decision.

 

[Jilly]

MissySki that is exactly my problem. My knees are touching or even I sometimes put my downhill knee behind the uphill. My feet are apart. My current exercise is to ski with my feet really far apart to feeling awkward and to roll my little toe on the uphill ski into the hill. Or take my hand and push the uphill knee into the hill. Which ever, it's to get the knee to put the ski on edge and to match up the angles.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I have to say, I would just say screw it and A-frame away if you are having fun and skiing well in spite of it!

+1, I think that last fitter had the best advice about just enjoying the snow. If you are equally pressuring both inside and outside edges (which I don't do, on one leg only!), the rest is anatomical - and tough to fix.

But once a piece of equipment reaches the point of this level of exasperation and joy-killing? Time to move on. You've certainly been patient and persistent. I'd have lasted not even 1/4 of that amount of time (and just proved that)!

 

[Swamp Dog]

ok....I may be way off track here.....considering I didn't even know what A-framing was until now. I am squarely in the "if it's fun keep doing it" camp. If it stops being fun, I'm out. The technical aspects take the fun out of it for me. You'd see that if you've ever seen me ski ;) But here's what I'm thinking....because I do know a bit about orthopedics....that maybe it's the width of your hips or the Q-angle of your knees that make you prone to A-framing. If that's the case I would think you'd be better off just going with it than trying to compensate for skeletal structure.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

All this talk about a-frame and alignment, etc -- DH, over xmas break, did a whole amateur set-up alignment thing on me, angle checks, etc. (I "k-frame" when I turn left and have photographic evidence of this.) Okay, the source of this seems to be my PELVIS alignment. I am essentially a "leaning tower" of sorts by all measurements > HA! I am pretty sure my chiropractor would confirm this....hiked up to the left and twisted forward. And the measurements now confirm this. (Time for another correction...)

 

[santacruz skier]

Ask your instructor if your A frame is caused by your knees. That is my problem. It's not the boots, its ME!. The edges are not equal because my uphill knee is not going into the inside of the turn. I need to actually push the knee into the hill with my hand to get the feeling. I've been told for years that I'm not edging my uphill ski, but no body till last week could tell why. It was "get your feet apart, get your feet apart". It's not my feet, its my knees!

So look into those knees and see if they are at the same angles or are causing the A frame to start with.

Is A-framing the same as what we used to call "stemming" turns? If so, I have been doing that on and off for the last 35 years.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Q-angle of your knees that make you prone to A-framing. If that's the case I would think you'd be better off just going with it than trying to compensate for skeletal structure.

Totally agree.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Is A-framing the same as what we used to call "stemming" turns? If so, I have been doing that on and off for the last 35 years.

No - it's when feet and skis are flat on the snow, all edge contact even - but the knees are touching. Sometimes, when not corrected, the skier can "ride" the inside edge - but this isn't necessarily the case. And I think it's not here.

 

[MissySki]

I guess the burning question I have right now is why, in the shop anyway, does my alignment measure almost neutral barefoot and in every other boot off the shelf that I've been put in, but my current boots make my knees go way inside??

 

[MissySki]

No - it's when feet and skis are flat on the snow, all edge contact even - but the knees are touching. Sometimes, when not corrected, the skier can "ride" the inside edge - but this isn't necessarily the case. And I think it's not here.

Well the noted issue I had in the past before it was somewhat "fixed" was I'd have a lot of problems with a slow transition for one of my turns where the tail of my right ski would always stick and it was hard to get to the outside edge since I was so on the inside. It's been much improved, or else I've learned to mostly compensate for it. Seems to only give me trouble occasionally now, not gonna lie that I do see it more often in bumps and trees now, but that could also be because I'm not very good at bumps and trees!

 

[bounceswoosh]

No - it's when feet and skis are flat on the snow, all edge contact even - but the knees are touching. Sometimes, when not corrected, the skier can "ride" the inside edge - but this isn't necessarily the case. And I think it's not here.

Wait. I thought A-Framing was when the outside leg is rigid instead of flexed. That's what I do, especially in stiff boots or when tired. What's that called?

 

[MissySki]

The technical aspects take the fun out of it for me. You'd see that if you've ever seen me ski ;) But here's what I'm thinking....because I do know a bit about orthopedics....that maybe it's the width of your hips or the Q-angle of your knees that make you prone to A-framing. If that's the case I would think you'd be better off just going with it than trying to compensate for skeletal structure.

The technical stuff has been severely taking the joy out this past week, I was so frustrated I had a couple of mini cry hysterics on the mountain with just DH which hasn't happened in years!!

It is definitely the hips to knees angle giving me this issue, apparently a leg length discrepancy is also a contributing factor. Bootfitter thinks with other boots we might just be able to lift my shorter leg a few millimeters and then not do any canting because I seem so neutral in other boots. I think trying out the other boots I can demo this weekend will be a good indicator on whether it drastically helps my A-frame without any other modification.

Another notable thing is I'm standing in all of the other boots without my footbeds and my alignment is better, so I wonder if the footbeds could be suspect as well?

 

[Gloria]

I guess the burning question I have right now is why, in the shop anyway, does my alignment measure almost neutral barefoot and in every other boot off the shelf that I've been put in, but my current boots make my knees go way inside??

In barefeet you have no dorsiflexion, you may have tight hip flexors and strectched glures causing an inability to keep the knee over the second and third toes when flexed. I agree with Jilly, not the boots. When the bootfitter changed your cuffs he forced the knee to travel in the right direction but it hurt because it was forced. I would liken it to showing up for the test without doing any of the coursework.

 

[lisamamot]

@MissySki, I ski for fun, and in the spirit of having fun, I can say I have a ton of fun skiing behind you and watching you ski! You are a joy to watch...I have on several occasions stopped worrying about how I am skiing as I think "wow, she is such a pretty skier". You look effortless, and I have never once thought "too bad she is A-framing". OK, I couldn't have thought that actually since I didn't know what it was anyway That said, if it bothers you that likely takes away your fun, so you should see what you can do, right?

With the number of days on your boots, it may just be time to get new ones, so starting now is as good a time as any.

Good luck if you plunge!

 

[Swamp Dog]

@MissySki, I ski for fun, and in the spirit of having fun, I can say I have a ton of fun skiing behind you and watching you ski! You are a joy to watch...I have on several occasions stopped worrying about how I am skiing as I think "wow, she is such a pretty skier". You look effortless, and I have never once thought "too bad she is A-framing". OK, I couldn't have thought that actually since I didn't know what it was anyway That said, if it bothers you that likely takes away your fun, so you should see what you can do, right?

With the number of days on your boots, it may just be time to get new ones, so starting now is as good a time as any.

Good luck if you plunge!

I agree with Lisa 100%! Your skiing is beautiful and I love watching you tear down the mountain. Just go have fun!