Help Needed: a Lightweight beginner skier

[EloiseD]

Hi,

I'm an intermediate/adv level snowboader looking to try skiing from this season. I'm 5'8" (172cm) and 100-105lbs.

My experienced skier friends suggest that I choose skis within the range of 160-170. However, I do not know anyone who is as lightweight as me for reference.

I'm deciding between the 167 K2 tru luv(78 waist) and 163 K2 luv struck (80 waist). I like the graphic of tru luv more but 163 seems to be a better choice given my body shape and ability. I'm looking for a pair of skis that could last longer since I'm do not have a budget to update gears every year. I also saw from another post that K2 declares effective length(part that contacts the ground) instead of actual length(tip to tail), while most of the guidelines use actual length.

Any thoughts or comments on which one I should go with? other recommendations are also welcome.

Some relative information:
I live in the east coast (Pittsburgh) where powder is out of reach while hard groomed snow and ice are everywhere. Therefore I'm would like to have more edge hold. I'm fine with riding in a high speed when snow condition allows. I spend >15 days on the snow every year.

I will shop my boots in the store. Any recommendations on models/boot fritters are also very welcome!

Thanks!

 

[Jilly]

So, have you skied? Did you really, really like it? I'd hate to see commit money at this point. Rent some equipment and check out lengths of skis that way.

 

[newboots]

I got a season rental my first season. It was remarkably cheap (I can't remember $, but I remember it was remarkable), and I was ready for longer skis the next year. Happy I hadn't bought any. The shops use one type of ski for their rentals, and it's generally a good beginner ski. I spent the money on boots, much more important! Here we always say, "Date your skis, but marry your boots."

The skis you'll want the year(s) after you learn won't be the skis that are best to learn on.

 

[EloiseD]

I got a season rental my first season. It was remarkably cheap (I can't remember $, but I remember it was remarkable), and I was ready for longer skis the next year. Happy I hadn't bought any. The shops use one type of ski for their rentals, and it's generally a good beginner ski. I spent the money on boots, much more important! Here we always say, "Date your skis, but marry your boots."

The skis you'll want the year(s) after you learn won't be the skis that are best to learn on.

Hi, Thank you for the suggestions! I was thinking about seasonal rentals but unfortunately all of them are gone in our local rental stores at this moment. I guess I'd go with one-time rentals for the season. It sounds to me that it also takes a lot of time to find the right boots to marry... Do you have any suggestions for lightweight people?

Skiing are so complex lol...

 

[EloiseD]

So, have you skied? Did you really, really like it? I'd hate to see commit money at this point. Rent some equipment and check out lengths of skis that way.

Hi, thank you for your reply! I'll rent it first. There seem to be lots of lessons to learn before purchasing...

 

[newboots]

It is complex!

I’m not an expert on boots, but unless you are incredibly lucky, you should buy your boots at a reputable shop, with a certified bootfitter. Often they are certified pedorthists, too. See the thread called “Why you - yes, you - need a bootfitter.”

The wrong boots make skiing miserable. They can injure your feet, like causing you toenail to turn black and fall off. As a snowboarder, you have used comfy boots for your snow sport and yes, we are jealous.

Read up on here about what goes into fitting boots. It’s not uncommon at all to make a few trips back to the fitter for adjustments. It’s too bad that they aren’t all terrific, but it’s important to read reviews, talk to your friends, and ask everyone you meet on the mountain who is the best.

So let your bootfitter pick out the best boots for you. It depends less on your weight and much more on the shape of your foot.

Anybody here from Pittsburgh?

 

[Susan L]

I was an advanced level snowboarder before switching to skis, and although I had plenty mileage on snow, they did not transfer to skis. I still started as a beginner and struggled like everyone else did.
I did rentals a handful of times before committing, but instead of going for standard rental skis/boots, I found a local reputable shop and rented their demo/performance equipment instead. I find them to be of higher quality and better fit. Demo equipment are not only for seasoned skiers - a good shop can rent you quality boots/skis fit for a beginner and that will give you a better experience. As for buying skis, I’d just go with whatever beginner’s length and width is suggested for you instead of buying something that you may (or may not) grow into. Learning is difficult enough and you certainly want your equipment to help make life easier NOW, not years down the road. Once you figure out skiing is your thing, then upgrade to equipment that’s appropriate for your level. You can always buy used to save money.
As for edge hold and skiing high speed in control - that will have more to do with the skier’s abilities instead of the skis. Doubt you will need that as a beginner. You don’t learn to ski with the edges like you do with snowboarding.

 

[marzNC]

Some relative information:
I live in the east coast (Pittsburgh) where powder is out of reach while hard groomed snow and ice are everywhere. Therefore I'm would like to have more edge hold. I'm fine with riding in a high speed when snow condition allows. I spend >15 days on the snow every year.

I will shop my boots in the store. Any recommendations on models/boot fritters are also very welcome!

If you would like some advice about skiing in the Pittsburgh area, check out DCSki .

It's possible to get a feel for skiing with a day rental. Some tips:

* use a good pair of ski-specific socks, medium weight not heavy weight
* only have ski socks in the boots
* if the ski boot feels "comfortable" try a size smaller
* ask how to buckle up the boots

I saw the usual number of beginners at my home hill (northern VA) last week with boots that were probably at least 2 sizes too big. In the case of one young man, probably 3 sizes. He was wearing jeans, had the jeans in the boots, and could probably move his lower leg in the boots 2-3 inches without ever moving his skis.

 

[EloiseD]

If you would like some advice about skiing in the Pittsburgh area, check out DCSki .

It's possible to get a feel for skiing with a day rental. Some tips:

* use a good pair of ski-specific socks, medium weight not heavy weight
* only have ski socks in the boots
* if the ski boot feels "comfortable" try a size smaller
* ask how to buckle up the boots

I saw the usual number of beginners at my home hill (northern VA) last week with boots that were probably at least 2 sizes too big. In the case of one young man, probably 3 sizes. He was wearing jeans, had the jeans in the boots, and could probably move his lower leg in the boots 2-3 inches without ever moving his skis.

Hi, thanks for the suggestions!

I went to some stores to try boots. The salesmen gave me 245 wide boots which is my normal size (my feet is 242mm long and I usually wear 245/38.5/7.5 shoes. They are comfortable.
I do hear from my skier friends that they tend to size down by 1 size.

 

[EloiseD]

I was an advanced level snowboarder before switching to skis, and although I had plenty mileage on snow, they did not transfer to skis. I still started as a beginner and struggled like everyone else did.
I did rentals a handful of times before committing, but instead of going for standard rental skis/boots, I found a local reputable shop and rented their demo/performance equipment instead. I find them to be of higher quality and better fit. Demo equipment are not only for seasoned skiers - a good shop can rent you quality boots/skis fit for a beginner and that will give you a better experience. As for buying skis, I’d just go with whatever beginner’s length and width is suggested for you instead of buying something that you may (or may not) grow into. Learning is difficult enough and you certainly want your equipment to help make life easier NOW, not years down the road. Once you figure out skiing is your thing, then upgrade to equipment that’s appropriate for your level. You can always buy used to save money.
As for edge hold and skiing high speed in control - that will have more to do with the skier’s abilities instead of the skis. Doubt you will need that as a beginner. You don’t learn to ski with the edges like you do with snowboarding.

Thank you!

 

[Susan L]

I am not sure I agree with sizing down one size, especially if that means you are cramping your feet in the boots. Your boots should be comfortably snugged, not comfortably roomy, and definitely not uncomfortable. Different brands fit differently too and you have to pay attention to flex (stiffness of the boots). I’d think beginners will want something softer than an advanced skier. You should flex your ankles while trying on boots (like when you flex into the tongue of your snowboard boots for a toe-side turn) - your toes should be right up the top (but not cramped) and there should not be room for your feet to move around. A bootfitter can help make a more customized fit.

 

[marzNC]

Hi, thanks for the suggestions!

I went to some stores to try boots. The salesmen gave me 245 wide boots which is my normal size (my feet is 242mm long and I usually wear 245/38.5/7.5 shoes. They are comfortable.
I do hear from my skier friends that they tend to size down by 1 size.

What questions did the "salesman" ask before pulling out a pair of boots to try? How long did you keep them on? It's possible that boots that are "comfortable" are actually a little big. Or they could be the right size for a beginner looking for comfort more than performance.

The first time I bought boots from someone who could be called a boot fitter, he had me try three very different types of boots. I was an intermediate who knew how to ski but hadn't skied much for a few decades and was expecting to be skiing with a kid just learning for several years. So I wasn't looking for fancy boots to replace the pair I'd bought in the 1990s. Once he found a decent fit, he asked me to hang around in them for at least 20 minutes. They were "new old stock" so cost under $300 during pre-season sales in the mountains of NC. They were good enough for a few years when I was skiing less than 20 days a season.

 

[EloiseD]

What questions did the "salesman" ask before pulling out a pair of boots to try? How long did you keep them on? It's possible that boots that are "comfortable" are actually a little big. Or they could be the right size for a beginner looking for comfort more than performance.

The first time I bought boots from someone who could be called a boot fitter, he had me try three very different types of boots. I was an intermediate who knew how to ski but hadn't skied much for a few decades and was expecting to be skiing with a kid just learning for several years. So I wasn't looking for fancy boots to replace the pair I'd bought in the 1990s. Once he found a decent fit, he asked me to hang around in them for at least 20 minutes. They were "new old stock" so cost under $300 during pre-season sales in the mountains of NC. They were good enough for a few years when I was skiing less than 20 days a season.

He measured the length of my feet. I tried the atomic magna 85W and salomon s/pro 70W for ~20 min and I like the salomon one more. They both feel very comfortable in terms of length while the atomic ones give some pressure to the inner side of my feet. When I stand up, it's a little tight. When I kneel down a little, it's fit perfectly. (Not sure if the feeling would change after I run several times on the mountain).

I learned later that you should try the boot without liner, but I was not aware of such things at the moment.

 

[marzNC]

He measured the length of my feet. I tried the atomic magna 85W and salomon s/pro 70W for ~20 min and I like the salomon one more. They both feel very comfortable in terms of length while the atomic ones give some pressure to the inner side of my feet. When I stand up, it's a little tight. When I kneel down a little, it's fit perfectly. (Not sure if the feeling would change after I run several times on the mountain).

I learned later that you should try the boot without liner, but I was not aware of such things at the moment.

Interesting. Was there any talk about the width of your feet?

While the actual flex isn't that critical, the Salomon S/Pro 70W is designed for beginners or intermediates more interested in comfort than performance. Flex isn't standardized across brands. For Salomon the range starts at 60 and goes up to 120. Since you have experience sliding on snow, my guess is that you won't be a beginner for long.

Have you looked around the Gearipedia threads?
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?forums/gearipedia.49/

 

[EloiseD]

Interesting. Was there any talk about the width of your feet?

While the actual flex isn't that critical, the Salomon S/Pro 70W is designed for beginners or intermediates more interested in comfort than performance. Flex isn't standardized across brands. For Salomon the range starts at 60 and goes up to 120. Since you have experience sliding on snow, my guess is that you won't be a beginner for long.

Have you looked around the Gearipedia threads?
https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/index.php?forums/gearipedia.49/

Thanks for the information! I just checked the threads and they're really informative.

I also read about the flex guidelines in evo.com and it seems that 70 is intermediate-advances level for women. My concern is that my weight might be not enough to bend stiffer boots on the mountain (when it's cold, the shell seems to be even stiffer). I found it very hard to bend the rental boots.

 

[marzNC]

I also read about the flex guidelines in evo.com and it seems that 70 is intermediate-advances level for women. My concern is that my weight might be not enough to bend stiffer boots on the mountain (when it's cold, the shell seems to be even stiffer). I found it very hard to bend the rental boots.

Try not to get too hung up on designations of flex or boots or skis that are "intermediate/advanced." That's a very general marketing generalization. But it is true that someone who is lightweight doesn't need a high flex boot. I'm petite, solid advanced, a senior, and I think my boots are 90 flex. The boots from the same brand that are supposed to be for my ability level didn't work at all. The fit is what counts, not the labeling. Remember that number doesn't mean anything across brands though. A 90 flex in a Salomon can be nothing like another brand in terms of "stiffness." That's why it's best to find a "boot fitter" and not just a salesman when it comes to buying ski boots.

You are correct that cold boots out of the mountain are harder to flex than in a nice warm ski shop.

Too many variables to learn much from rental boots. Did you rent on the mountain or from a local ski shop?

 

[EloiseD]

Try not to get too hung up on designations of flex or boots or skis that are "intermediate/advanced." That's a very general marketing generalization. But it is true that someone who is lightweight doesn't need a high flex boot. I'm petite, solid advanced, a senior, and I think my boots are 90 flex. The boots from the same brand that are supposed to be for my ability level didn't work at all. The fit is what counts, not the labeling. Remember that number doesn't mean anything across brands though. A 90 flex in a Salomon can be nothing like another brand in terms of "stiffness." That's why it's best to find a "boot fitter" and not just a salesman when it comes to buying ski boots.

You are correct that cold boots out of the mountain are harder to flex than in a nice warm ski shop.

Too many variables to learn much from rental boots. Did you rent on the mountain or from a local ski shop?

I rent from a rental store near the resort. They are not comfortable and the liners shrink a lot while I was skiing. The old-fashioned buckles are super hard to fasten, too.
Unfottunately, all the seasonal rentals in local stores are gone at this moment...

The staff at the stores (they should be the fitters I guess) tend to give me 80+ boots. When the fitter asked me to bend my knees to reach his fist, I tried but it was not that easy to bend that much.

 

[Après Skier]

Hi, I hope your first season on skis goes well I would recommend starting with rental skis. This will give you the freedom to start at a shorter length which will will make the learning process easier and more enjoyable. Eventually, when you are ready to buy a skis, try not to get too bogged down on buying a ski you can “grow into” but rather focus on finding a ski you will enjoy and will help you develop skills while still having fun.

When I got back into skiing after a long hiatus, I started with an inexpensive beginner set-up. I really loved those cheap skis. They were so light and easy, I was able to ski all over the mountain and keep-up with skiers who were well above my skill level. I eventually replaced them and although I had only used them for a couple of years, I really got my money’s worth.

As for boots... that is a complicated topic. I ran a Google search for “bootfitter Pittsburgh” and it looks like you have a several shops where they take pride in fitting their clientele with the right boot.

 

[scandium]

I agree that you shouldn't get hung up on the flex number. I'm around 110-120lb so heavier than you, but the first pair of boots I owned were Lange with 80 flex, and I am currently in Fischers with a 100 flex that I find easier/equivalent to the Lange boots.

Have fun skiing!

 

[liquidfeet]

Thanks for the information! I just checked the threads and they're really informative.

I also read about the flex guidelines in evo.com and it seems that 70 is intermediate-advances level for women. My concern is that my weight might be not enough to bend stiffer boots on the mountain (when it's cold, the shell seems to be even stiffer). I found it very hard to bend the rental boots.

A flex of 70 is not adequate for an intermediate or advanced skier, which you soon will be given your past as a snowboarder. The boot cuff needs to offer some resistance/support when a skier goes fast, or when the skiing is on blue terrain (or steeper). A soft cuff will force the skier to use their calf muscles to keep the lower leg from folding forward out of control under those conditions. A stiff cuff will offer support during turning when the forces get higher. It's not just your weight that matters, it's your speed and the pitch of the terrain.

Also, you will need a boot that doesn't fold forward easily if you want to use the boot cuff as a lever to keep the front of the ski pressing down onto the snow. This is something intermediates work on and advanced skiers do.

A stiffer flex can be softened, but a soft flex can't be stiffened. A 70 or 80 flex boot is built for beginners, assuming they aren't going to go fast or get their skis up onto an edge. Such boots also assume the skier wants to feel comfortable in the boot in the shop, so they are fluffy inside with lots of cushioning in the liner. That cushioning eliminates any chance of the boot communicating your foot's orders to the ski, as @marzNC, and maybe others, indicated above.

I'll be direct with you.
--1. Get a stiffer boot.
--2. Be sure the bootfitter (not shop worker assigned to boots) takes the liner out and checks how the shell fits your foot in three dimensions, length, width, and volume (height over foot and circumference around ankle area). Talk about these three with this person.
--3. The bootfitter should fit the boots to the smaller foot and make free adjustments (punch and grind the plastic shell) to make extra room in the boot that is tighter so it matches the fit of the other. Plastic is malleable, and bootfitters do this for free when a customer wants to get a good fit. Call ahead and ask for an appointment with an experienced bootfitter.
--4. Know that going to this trouble will improve you foot comfort as well as help you advance your skiing skills. The boot is a tool. Buy it with this in mind.