From Low Intermediate to Confident Intermediate: Tips and Resources

[Elena_Ski]

Hello beautiful skiers! I'd like to open up a thread for tips and resources dedicated to the progression from lower intermediate (green/blue) level to solid intermediate (all degrees of blue). Many progression camps offered in my area are geared either towards complete beginners or "strong intermediates and up". As a lower intermediate skier, I'm trying to bridge the gap to "strong intermediate" and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there!

I started skiing a few years ago as an adult but know some people who've been stuck in the lower intermediate level for years. I would love to progress past it! I've taken some group lessons but wasn't very lucky with instructors. Most of the time it was something like "let's ski an intermediate run," not much technique correction.

If you are an instructor or have taken lessons with good instructors, what are some drills and technique tips to help low intermediates?

Some problems low intermediates might be struggling with are:
- skidding when parallel turning;
- edging problems;
- speed control issues on steeper blue terrain;
- stiff body, skiing "as one piece" as opposed to lower/upper body separation;
- anxiety and fear when skiing steeper blue terrain, often resulting in going into survival mode (skidding, half or full snow plow, etc).
- Add your thoughts!

I recently saw this video and found it hugely enlightening:

Hope we can share more tips and resources like this one here!

 

[snoWYmonkey]

A few initial thoughts. The transition to blues is a big one. What can hinder it some is the ease of skiing greens at speed, with great comfort and at times less than perfect skills and assuming they are enough to manage steeper terrain and higher speeds.

I always suggest being 100 per cent bored with the ease of greens before moving on.

Skidding a turn is not only OK, but part of the speed control we need to slow down enough to feel safe on steeper runs. We can slow down via turn size, turn shape and ski/snow friction aka skidding. Carving removes the last mentioned speed control tecnique, and is best for those who enjoy speed and racers for a reason. The skier in the video has some issues with her skidded turns such as rushing the shape and her balance, but I am not comvinced that she is ready for purely carved turns before developing more finesse and skills in her basic parallel turns.

Solid side slips and hockey stops and consistent very slow fully parallel turns are a must for my students before we head up to blues. Proper pole use, ability to traverse, and being comfortable with some speed on greens are also important.

Specific drills will vary based on each student's needs and wants.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Addendum: resorting to a wedge is always OK in my book in an emergency. It is a tool. One that is not optimal but legitimate if needed to regain speed control in a scary situation. It does not alwasy work well on steeps and is hard on the knees and hips in steeps, but I prefer skiing with someone who is chill about using a wedge rather than frustrated or out of control trying to parallel on terrain that they are not comfortable.yet with executing faster parallel turns. Kindness and patience are key...the self kindness variety!

 

[Elena_Ski]

Great tips, this got me thinking, maybe I need to learn better skidding?)) When I end up skidding on some steeper blue terrain, I feel that half of the time I don't have much control and then I end up picking up too much speed and braking hard, which causes an almost painful hip swing.

Also, with skidding, sometimes it takes me down across the slope in a wider turn, potentially cutting the line of the skiers coming down, which makes me pretty anxious. So I end up stopping a lot and making sure nobody's coming down at a high speed.

This is just on steeper blues and I usually stick to greens and easy blues where I am relaxed and in full control. So it usually goes like this: I get comfy and slightly bored on easy blues where I'm able to make shorter, controlled turns, so I venture out on a steeper blue and... skidding/loss of control again (sigh).

This brings me to a question: is there a better way to skid then?))

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Great question. The same principle of a short radius turn applies. Short turn equals slower speeds top to bottom even if we are making faster turning movements for the same distance. The key is not to rush the turn. If we rush it we often end up in the back seat from where it is hard to keep steering and the dreaded traverse becomes the slowing down movement. Often too a rished turn leads to super high edges in finish which again are speedy compared to a skidded turn.

Look up pivot slip drills. The ultimate skidded short radius turn! The trick is to stay in a very narrow corridor with those. Then gradually increase the corridor without rushing to change direction/turn and in theory you should be making short radius speed controlled turns. A lot of skills go into executing pivot slips. This means years of practice....

I am not saying that a side slip to side slip is an ideal or normal turn, but the skidding of a side slip is usually a more controlled speed than coming into the end of the turn on high edges full speed across the hill.

My favorite drill is how slow can you go? On any run while either not speeding up on steeps and not loosing momentum on flats.

 

[Elena_Ski]

Some more short turn challenges and videos addressing those: excessive up and down movements and of course, everyone's favorite, backsitting))

 

[liquidfeet]

@Elena, I have a few questions for you. Yes, I know these are a lot of questions, but your answers will be help people to pinpoint the issues that are producing your frustrations.

1. Where do you ski? I ask because I'm wondering how firmmmm (hard, icy) the snow usually is.
2. When you took those ineffective group lessons, was it on a weekend or during a holiday week? I ask because the more experienced instructors sometimes get booked up during crowded days and aren't available for group lessons. Would you ever be able to ski and take a lesson on a weekday morning, when a group lesson might end up being a group of one?
3. Can you do a hockey stop? If yes, do you turn your whole body to face the trees, turning your shoulders along with your skis, when you stop this way?
4. What do you typically do to try to stop yourself from gaining speed? I think you said this happens to you, so I'm wondering what control strategy you are trying that isn't working so well.
4. How comfortable are you with side-slipping? Can you turn your body to face downhill as you side-slip? Can you keep side-slipping straight down the hill for a good distance without your skis taking you off in an unexpected direction?
5. When your turns skid in a way that you don't want, is the skid after the skis point in the new direction? In other words, do your skis lack the grip you want at the bottom of the turn?
6. Do you own your boots? If so, did you buy them at a ski shop, or a big box store, or online? I'm asking because boots that are too loose will block you from controlling the way your skis point, and most people who buy without the help of a good bootfitter get boots that are too big, and they don't know it.
7. Do you own your skis? What particular skis are you usually on?

 

[Elena_Ski]

@Elena, I have a few questions for you. Yes, I know these are a lot of questions, but your answers will be help people to pinpoint the issues that are producing your frustrations.

1. Where do you ski? I ask because I'm wondering how firmmmm (hard, icy) the snow usually is.
2. When you took those ineffective group lessons, was it on a weekend or during a holiday week? I ask because the more experienced instructors sometimes get booked up during crowded days and aren't available for group lessons. Would you ever be able to ski and take a lesson on a weekday morning, when a group lesson might end up being a group of one?
3. Can you do a hockey stop? If yes, do you turn your whole body to face the trees, turning your shoulders along with your skis, when you stop this way?
4. What do you typically do to try to stop yourself from gaining speed? I think you said this happens to you, so I'm wondering what control strategy you are trying that isn't working so well.
4. How comfortable are you with side-slipping? Can you turn your body to face downhill as you side-slip? Can you keep side-slipping straight down the hill for a good distance without your skis taking you off in an unexpected direction?
5. When your turns skid in a way that you don't want, is the skid after the skis point in the new direction? In other words, do your skis lack the grip you want at the bottom of the turn?
6. Do you own your boots? If so, did you buy them at a ski shop, or a big box store, or online? I'm asking because boots that are too loose will block you from controlling the way your skis point, and most people who buy without the help of a good bootfitter get boots that are too big, and they don't know it.
7. Do you own your skis? What particular skis are you usually on?

Oh wow thank you so much for all these great questions! I feel that just by reading your questions, I'm gaining lots of insight into what I need to improve and how to do it)) I'll try to answer to the best of my ability))

First, a bit of background: I learned to ski a couple of years ago when my friends and I took a complete beginner lesson. I couldn't afford expensive ski lessons and clinics back then, so been most learning from being up on the mountain and skiing with friends, plus from some online sources. I'm pretty fit and athletic and come from a strong cross country skiing background, so have good balance on skis. This winter, I decided to take a few short clinics (see answer to #2).

1) I'm from Vancouver BC, so Whistler, Sun Peaks, some local ski hills (Cypress, Seymour). Out on BC Coast, we have a fair mixture of everything: powder, hardpack, and ice early and late in the season. I don't usually ski on fresh powder days (Whistler gets wayyy too crowded), so mostly on hardpack.
Right now I'm in Reno, skiing at Mt Rose, Palisades, Northstar, planning on Heavenly next week!

2) Love your tip about taking group lessons mid-week! I've done this once at Sun Peaks and ended up being the only person in the group, like you said! Some "unpopular" times like 2pm in the afternoon increase the chances as well.
This winter, I've taken a few Thursday morning Ladies Clinics at Mt Rose. They are only $25/person but I also feel the price reflects the quality a bit. Out of the 3 clinics that I took, only one had a helpful instructor (the opinion of the whole group), who gave us some individual pointers. The other ones just took us out for a ski. Unfortunately, we have no control over the assignment of instructors, and they get rotated every week.

3) Yes, I can do a hockey stop; in fact, this is how I sometimes ski on steeps LOL. Hockey stop to hockey stop. Trying to progress to short, smooth, controlled and round turns on blues. I think you nailed it: I often face out to the side, need to face downhill more!

4a) What do you typically do to try to stop yourself from gaining speed?
- A hockey stop.

 

[Elena_Ski]

@Elena, I have a few questions for you. Yes, I know these are a lot of questions, but your answers will be help people to pinpoint the issues that are producing your frustrations.

1. Where do you ski? I ask because I'm wondering how firmmmm (hard, icy) the snow usually is.
2. When you took those ineffective group lessons, was it on a weekend or during a holiday week? I ask because the more experienced instructors sometimes get booked up during crowded days and aren't available for group lessons. Would you ever be able to ski and take a lesson on a weekday morning, when a group lesson might end up being a group of one?
3. Can you do a hockey stop? If yes, do you turn your whole body to face the trees, turning your shoulders along with your skis, when you stop this way?
4. What do you typically do to try to stop yourself from gaining speed? I think you said this happens to you, so I'm wondering what control strategy you are trying that isn't working so well.
4. How comfortable are you with side-slipping? Can you turn your body to face downhill as you side-slip? Can you keep side-slipping straight down the hill for a good distance without your skis taking you off in an unexpected direction?
5. When your turns skid in a way that you don't want, is the skid after the skis point in the new direction? In other words, do your skis lack the grip you want at the bottom of the turn?
6. Do you own your boots? If so, did you buy them at a ski shop, or a big box store, or online? I'm asking because boots that are too loose will block you from controlling the way your skis point, and most people who buy without the help of a good bootfitter get boots that are too big, and they don't know it.
7. Do you own your skis? What particular skis are you usually on?

4b) I haven't done much side slipping, will try it and report!

5) I think I tend to skid right after I inituate the turn, but am not 100% sure. It could be because when my skis are pointing down, I'm trying to steer them sideways (diagonally) for speed control.

6) I think you nailed it! My old, extra wide boots (that I picked at a big box store) were very comfy but wayyy too wide for me. I think that's why I've been struggling with edging. I just saw a bootfitter and he told me that I have narrow feet, so I got myself a pair of new, much narrower boots. Only skied in them once so far but already noticing the difference (more control!)

7) I own Rossignol Experience 76. Picked them myself after doing some reseach, and am beyond happy with them! They are the reason why I was able to progress from a never ever beginner to skiing blues from the top of Whistler/Blackomb literally within a year. They are soft, lightweight, super easy to turn, grippy, and confidence inspiring. I just need some better edging skills to go along with them)) Even with my current edging, I am able to get some grip on icy, skied out spots, where all my friends are slipping. The only thing is that the skis are too short for me (I got short skis on purpose, for having more control as a beginner), so because of their short radius, they don't give me a lot of smooth glide, and my turns are a bit choppy. I know I need to upgrade to a longer ski but still love my Rossis!))

 

[Elena_Ski]

Found this parallel turn tutorial:

Thinking of trying to follow it on the slopes. What do the experts here think?)

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Not a huge fan of the video or timing of the turn progression. Not bad skiing but some aspects are a bit dated like the up unweighting and I am a fan of changing edges first and focuaing on that then steering rather than steer then edge. Some odd counter too in the medium radius turns. The pressure percentage for me is more variable than an absolute. All that said, he is a beautiful skier, in control, and most of the technical focus is beneficial!

 

[Jilly]

Agree with @snoWYmonkey ,that video is dated. Flat skis to change edges, then using the side cut and steering move into the turn increasing the edge angle to maintain grip.

 

[echo_VT]

Hi…! I can share the following—Things I have been teaching this season to get my students into parallel on blues:
1. Turn shape: J turns (with a stop between each turn to head up the hill, use a visual cue to look back up the hill. For my kids, I tell them to say “hello hill!”)
2. Turn shape: take it to C turns (between turns, parallel skis go back up the hill to a slow speed, then head back down the fall line)
3. 3-6 athletic stance hops or jumps on two feet between turns. Note: Between turns are almost like traverses.
4. side slips down the fall line. Start slow. With each one progress the speed of the side slip down the fall line. Start with a bunny slope pitch then green pitch then steeper green pitch (blue-green). Pair students up and the person behind does red light yellow light and green light for the person in front to practice doing it on command. This is really important to do well. Flattening the ski at the start of the slip, then flexing the ankles to a pole touch. can head into pivot slips down the fall line. Make sure can do both sides for side slips and pivot slips.
5. Floating leaf drill for fore-aft pressure. High edge angle and flatter ski (low edge angle)
6. Pressuring the Outside ski drills on green terrain: thumper (inside ski thumps with tip down), flamingos (inside ski tip down, no thumping), javelins, reverse javelins. Start with between turns. Once good, move it up to the shaping phase. Once both between turns and shaping phase are good, move it up to initiation. Note: not everyone will be able to do flamingos, javelins or reverse javelins. It is worth the effort to tackle them, but start with thumpers and move it up the turn phases as success happens. Then do flamingos, then either javelins or reverse javelins. Then the final javelin.
7. If separation is a problem, no poles Superman drill
8. If edging is a problem, drag poles and roll ankles to flat to next edge drill.
9. Stem turns on greens (teach tactics on terrain they can do well so on blue terrain they can execute if needed)
10. Wedge Christie’s on greens (same reason as stem turns, it’s a little less painful than wedge turns on blues)

Usually at this point, if the above are successful on greens, we take it to blues:
11. Traverses on blues
12. Garlands on blues
13. Then start again from the top but on blues

hope this is somewhat helpful! I see there are lots of responses here too (which I’ll now read!)

 

[echo_VT]

For side slips. In order to maintain separation there will be a natural offset of inside ski tip lead. It should not be excessive but it should exist. A way to test this is to have someone down the fall line in front of you. As you side slip they should be able to see both boots, either the left sides of the boots or the right sides. The pelvis should face a bit down the fall line in green terrain, and it will face more down the fall line the steeper the terrain gets. To continue to maintain pressure the outside ski during this drill, the upper body will have to angle down the hill.

 

[skinnyfootskis]

Hello beautiful skiers! I'd like to open up a thread for tips and resources dedicated to the progression from lower intermediate (green/blue) level to solid intermediate (all degrees of blue). Many progression camps offered in my area are geared either towards complete beginners or "strong intermediates and up". As a lower intermediate skier, I'm trying to bridge the gap to "strong intermediate" and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there!

I started skiing a few years ago as an adult but know some people who've been stuck in the lower intermediate level for years. I would love to progress past it! I've taken some group lessons but wasn't very lucky with instructors. Most of the time it was something like "let's ski an intermediate run," not much technique correction.

If you are an instructor or have taken lessons with good instructors, what are some drills and technique tips to help low intermediates?

Some problems low intermediates might be struggling with are:
- skidding when parallel turning;
- edging problems;
- speed control issues on steeper blue terrain;
- stiff body, skiing "as one piece" as opposed to lower/upper body separation;
- anxiety and fear when skiing steeper blue terrain, often resulting in going into survival mode (skidding, half or full snow plow, etc).
- Add your thoughts!

I recently saw this video and found it hugely enlightening:

Hope we can share more tips and resources like this one here!

Thanks! I always rush my turns…

 

[EdithP]

Hello beautiful skiers! I'd like to open up a thread for tips and resources dedicated to the progression from lower intermediate (green/blue) level to solid intermediate (all degrees of blue). Many progression camps offered in my area are geared either towards complete beginners or "strong intermediates and up". As a lower intermediate skier, I'm trying to bridge the gap to "strong intermediate" and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there!

I started skiing a few years ago as an adult but know some people who've been stuck in the lower intermediate level for years. I would love to progress past it! I've taken some group lessons but wasn't very lucky with instructors. Most of the time it was something like "let's ski an intermediate run," not much technique correction.

If you are an instructor or have taken lessons with good instructors, what are some drills and technique tips to help low intermediates?

Some problems low intermediates might be struggling with are:
- skidding when parallel turning;
- edging problems;
- speed control issues on steeper blue terrain;
- stiff body, skiing "as one piece" as opposed to lower/upper body separation;
- anxiety and fear when skiing steeper blue terrain, often resulting in going into survival mode (skidding, half or full snow plow, etc).
- Add your thoughts!

I recently saw this video and found it hugely enlightening:

Hope we can share more tips and resources like this one here!

Thank you for introducing this thread! I am finding myself in exact same spot: got over initial hurdles and now find it difficult to progress. And yes, yes, yes to it being particularly hard to find resources for that particular stage. Even the Youtube material, so plentiful, is geared either to "your first days on skis" or to proficient people who wish to become advanced+. Same with instructors/lessons, again the same problem, with some I could have spent my money much better. I guess that is because while beginner stuff and issues people have are very well defined, once you progress out of that stage a much vaster territory opens up, with a variety of individdual difficulties, much less easy to tackle in random lessons that was the first time for never evers. In a way, thanks for bringing it up: I have always felt like a sore thumb among those people who almost seemed like they have never been beginners at all, do not even remember anything came hard or was difficult to grasp, and seem to follow every new instruction with an AHA! attitude. (good for them, of course!). So good to know I have a nice company!
I was a little upset to read your take on so many people never progressing beyond lower itermediate (where I , by and large, see myself). I was indeed hoping I would escape that route if I really apply myself, but if it is a more general problem, who knows. I will keep trying anyway. It is still fun.
One suggestion: @liquidfeet is such priceless source of expertise at exercises and explanations. anything she tells you is worth copying and keeping in one place. BTW, one of the things she told me early on was to start a ski journal in which to jot your impressions, victories and failures and any info that came my way that I felt was useful. I did not start immediately (must admit) but I now I have kept one for a year and a half and wow, how it helps! Would very humbly share that advice.
I promise to visit this thread and learn stuff with you. Good luck!

 

[Peaheartsmama]

I absolutely love this thread! This is so me. And I need help to get more comfortable on harder blues. (In some resorts it’s darker greens!) @snoWYmonkey/ Liquidfeet/ echoVT - where do you teach? I find it so hard to find instructors that can explain this well. Would love to maybe seek you out at your home resorts and sign up for lessons sometime!

 

[snoWYmonkey]

@Peaheartsmama I teach in Jackson Hole. The resort is known for the not so gradual jump from mellow greens to some pretty steep blues. It forces us to over train in favor of accidentally over terraining our students. I so would love to have easy blues to teach on. That said we seem to manage with the fun terrain we do have. I hope to see you some day and thank you for the kind words.

 

[Peaheartsmama]

I hope to see you one day too! This is what is actually preventing me from venturing to bigger mountains farther away even if my Ikon pass covers them. I figure if I can’t get comfortable on steeper terrain why bother venturing too far from home? I am really happy cruising easy greens but I think I need to improve how well I cope with darker blues than I am today.

 

[Peaheartsmama]

By the way, that’s one of the things I love best about camelback, the place a learned to ski at - the progression from easy greens to harder blues is really gradual with lots of options in between. I still have not done the blacks there but did make my way down some of the harder blues a while back. But it’s been frustrating feeling “stuck” on the greens on the new mountains we have tried since then.