From Low Intermediate to Confident Intermediate: Tips and Resources

[TheGreenOne]

@TheGreenOne I just bought Belleayre's season pass too! Thinking about going there this Sunday if it's not too windy in case you're interested!

According to Skiology Matt on facebook, Belleyre is at moderate windhold risk ~25% for Sunday from this weekend storm, so not bad, but I've only been to Bell once before this past Monday, so have no idea what lifts tend to go down on windholds, or is it entire mtn? The way lifts are facing seem to be all in the same direction at Belleyre.

Skiology also said if the lifts go down on Sunday, it's staying down, risk remains all day for NY.

Saddle/Sugarloaf is going to get the most benefit out of the storm and nearly all of it snow, so this is good for the Divas going to the get together!

So maaaybe Belleyre. I'm desperate to get more days in before season totally ends though!

 

[marzNC]

Belleyre is at moderate windhold risk ~25% for Sunday from this weekend storm, so not bad, but I've only been to Bell once before this past Monday, so have no idea what lifts tend to go down on windholds, or is it entire mtn? The way lifts are facing seem to be all in the same direction at Belleyre.

For more about what happens at Belleayre, check out the ongoing Conditions thread for folks who ski in NY.

Late season is always hard to predict. Also need to consider which lifts might not be open to reduce staff needs, as well as snow conditions depending on where snow making has happened in the last few weeks. I've only skied at Belleayre during early or late season. I like the mountain's layout.

 

[yogiskier]

So maaaybe Belleyre. I'm desperate to get more days in before season totally ends though!

Meee too!

For more about what happens at Belleayre, check out the ongoing Conditions thread for folks who ski in NY.

Late season is always hard to predict. Also need to consider which lifts might not be open to reduce staff needs, as well as snow conditions depending on where snow making has happened in the last few weeks. I've only skied at Belleayre during early or late season. I like the mountain's layout.

Thanks for the link!

 

[marzNC]

Some good tips from Diva instructors at the beginning of this thread from a several years ago.

Although the new Indy Pass Learn-To-Turn 3-day pass for $189 is geared towards beginners, could be worthwhile for a low intermediate interested in a few group lessons. Especially for someone getting back on the slopes after a hiatus who never had lessons before. Best to call the ski school of a resort of interest to check if a lesson for an intermediate would be possible, as opposed to a never-ever or beginner lesson.

Even though a regular Indy Pass is no longer available, Learn-To-Turn will be available all season 2025-26.

Learn-to-Turn provides 3 days with lift ticket, rental gear, and a lesson each day. The locations are mostly in the east or midwest so far, but here are a few in along the Pacific coast in the USA and Canada. Eagle Point in Utah, Kelly Canyon and Soldier Mountain in Idaho, and Sunlight in Colorado have signed up.

 

[Taryn]

Stumbled upon this thread while looking for some advice for overcoming the anxiety of speed and steepness.

One of the biggest challenges I have as a low-intermediate is getting over how steep some runs are. My local mountain has green runs off the lift that feel so steep compared to other greens I have been on. I know every mountain is different, but how do you get over the fear of going down a steep run? What technique do you use?

I also have the issue of going too fast. When I get up to a certain speed I start getting scared and wanting to stop so I preform a hockey stop and calm myself down. My instructors have said to use the entire mountain, but I feel like I am going to get into someone's way. I also feel like I loose control when I go too fast. So how does one get over the fear of going fast?

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I am not sure that one ever gets over the fear of going too fast. I personally believe that what changes is your relationship to the fear based on improving your skills that will allow you to actually know and trust that you can manage the speed on a given pitch. I have occasionally come across some students where the fear is much greater than their skills and it becomes a real issue but most of the time skill development will go hand in hand with fear reduction. Remember that fear is there to keep you from doing foolish things. I 100% agree with your idea that using the whole slope might not be the safest way to scrub speed. I highly highly encourage you to work on side slips until you are so tired of them that you don't want to keep working on them. Do side slips in a narrow corridor, do side slips that go from Fast to slow back to fast to a Full Stop facing in both directions! Then eventually and assuming that you are making parallel turns you can go from a side slip to a pivot slip. There are great demonstrations online if you need help with those. If you are not yet making parallel turns comfortably then go back to the terrain that feels very comfortable not the harder green runs, and work on the parallel turn. I'm kind of shooting in the dark here in terms of knowing how to best help you but hopefully others will expound on these ideas and bring new ones to the table.

 

[OrDreamer]

Addendum: resorting to a wedge is always OK in my book in an emergency. It is a tool. One that is not optimal but legitimate if needed to regain speed control in a scary situation. It does not alwasy work well on steeps and is hard on the knees and hips in steeps, but I prefer skiing with someone who is chill about using a wedge rather than frustrated or out of control trying to parallel on terrain that they are not comfortable.yet with executing faster parallel turns. Kindness and patience are key...the self kindness variety!

totally ok - i def use it as a tool on like a narrow scary travers o something where im too scared to gain speed...a friend who ski since she was 3 years old told me that once and it stuck in my head...def a tool to use as needed

 

[OrDreamer]

i think that the main thing that worked for me is just repetition - i could do the same fun blue run i liked for 10 times in a row - till i felt its nothing - that i could sing to myself while skiing and not even think about skiing it - that was the time to move to the next run - i know some ppl get too bored sometime but i dont mind it - i just enjoy it.

now im trying to tackle tress and bigger moguls and those short decision making times (which can have consequences) are the things that really scare me...need to work on it this season

 

[Taryn]

Thank you! Repetition has definitely helped my fear of steepness. I think it's just new stuff I get in my head about. I will try out the side slip method on newer things. I think getting a feel of the steepness through this method might help me a lot.

 

[marzNC]

Repetition has definitely helped my fear of steepness. I think it's just new stuff I get in my head about.

A while back I learned an approach to the first run that can be useful on essentially any trail that has pitch that can make me nervous. It's a 3-step approach.

The idea came from a mountain bike clinic set up by SheJumps at my home ski hill where lifts are used for bikes during the green seasons. For biking, it's called Pre-Ride, Re-Ride, Free Ride. The group was about a dozen women that included a couple raw beginners, intermediates, and a few advanced riders who had never had a lesson. I was one of the novices. The teaching was done on a green mountain bike trail. The first time we went slow, then stopped and got off our bikes at every feature. The instructors talked about what to look for and how to ride it. The second time we went slowish but didn't stop until we reached the lift again. The third time, people could ride whatever speed they were comfortable with.

A few years later, I had a ski instructor at Alta, JW, take exactly the same approach during a powder lesson. I was doing a semi-private lesson with my ski buddy who is a bit older and was an advanced skier by high school. JW took us to a short tree run out a Challenger gate, perhaps a dozen turns at most. The snow was deep and fluffy, almost knee deep on me. The first run JW went slow, and stopped after 2-3 turns. The second time he wasn't going fast, but never stopped. The third time he was going at speed. I was tucked right behind him on the first and last runs. That was my first experience skiing that sort of snow and terrain that fast . . . without worrying at all!

These days, my habit even at my home hill is to be more cautious the first time I ski a blue/black trail on a given day. Snow conditions are always changing. By the second time I'm usually skiing freely because I know the place well. In this case, a non-stop run takes less than 5 minutes when making plenty of turns.

 

[GladeDuchess]

Stumbled upon this thread while looking for some advice for overcoming the anxiety of speed and steepness.

One of the biggest challenges I have as a low-intermediate is getting over how steep some runs are. My local mountain has green runs off the lift that feel so steep compared to other greens I have been on. I know every mountain is different, but how do you get over the fear of going down a steep run? What technique do you use?

I also have the issue of going too fast. When I get up to a certain speed I start getting scared and wanting to stop so I preform a hockey stop and calm myself down. My instructors have said to use the entire mountain, but I feel like I am going to get into someone's way. I also feel like I loose control when I go too fast. So how does one get over the fear of going fast?

Speed has always terrified me in many things, but for skiing, it was always a combination of the speed sensation, and a fear I would not be able to stop if needed. I've done a drill where I will purposely try to push my comfort zone with speed a bit, and then stop, sort of to prove to myself I can stop if needed. Then I repeat, gradually trying to get comfortable with the sensation of going faster.

Just curious how comfortable you are with you current ski kit? My first year, always with rental stuff, was a bit hard as every I day was getting accustomed to something new. The first skis I owned were a bit too long and advanced for me, which made me exceedingly cautious too. When I finally got a pair of skis that matched me, I actually went a bit faster as I had so much more confidence in my control.

Like @marzNC mentioned, I sometimes am exceedingly cautious on the first run down a trail too, as what was a beautiful run a few days ago may be an absolute glacier today.

Steep things scared the bloody hell out of me for a while too, but I learned to not think about the whole run, and mentally break it into stages.

If you've not seen it, I highly recommend the book "A Conversation With Fear" by Mermer Blakeslee. I found it a bit dry to be right honest, but she does have a fab way of explaining things and her accounts of working with different students are full of little things you can try.

Above all, you do you! Never feel pressured or rushed to keep up with others or do things that seem beyond you. Keep working at things for sure, but work at a pace you are comfortable with. : )

 

[marzNC]

Speed has always terrified me in many things, but for skiing, it was always a combination of the speed sensation, and a fear I would not be able to stop if needed. I've done a drill where I will purposely try to push my comfort zone with speed a bit, and then stop, sort of to prove to myself I can stop if needed. Then I repeat, gradually trying to get comfortable with the sensation of going faster.

Excellent idea!

I have heard instructors suggest that a total novice interested in building confidence do something like the following process.

1) Start on a green trail
a) ski slow until comfortable, stop as needed
b) ski a narrower corridor, as slow as comfortable, stop as needed
c) ski slightly faster and/or don't stop
d) ski varying width turns at the slightly faster speed, preferably without stopping
e) ski faster without stopping . . . until bored
2) Move to an easy blue, do steps a-e

I view a hockey stop as a survival skill that should be practiced. Only need to be fully confident in one direction initially. My daughter wasn't really taught a hockey stop in ski school ages 5-6. What the instructor would do is lightly spray kids with snow by a hockey stop. Then encourage them to spray back. There was no talk of how to make that happen. Fair to say that my daughter could do a hockey stop without thinking by her third season, only skiing 10-14 short days each winter.

Together with side slipping, being confident doing a hockey stop at a speed that feel slightly fast makes it less unnerving to explore new terrain. One reason I was an adventurous intermediate when I got back on the slopes as an adult was that those skills were ingrained in the two seasons I skied straight skis as a young teen.

 

[Taryn]

Just curious how comfortable you are with you current ski kit? My first year, always with rental stuff, was a bit hard as every I day was getting accustomed to something new. The first skis I owned were a bit too long and advanced for me, which made me exceedingly cautious too. When I finally got a pair of skis that matched me, I actually went a bit faster as I had so much more confidence in my control.

Love this advice, thank you! My current skis I feel like they might be a tad long for me. I have the Sheeva 9's in size 157. I am about 145lbs at 5'4". I like the way they cut into crust, which we tend to get a lot of crust/ice on the east coast, but I feel like I am getting useto them the more I ski. I am wondering if I go shorter I might feel more in control? Still new so I am not sure how length impacts performance yet.

 

[Taryn]

A while back I learned an approach to the first run that can be useful on essentially any trail that has pitch that can make me nervous. It's a 3-step approach.

The idea came from a mountain bike clinic set up by SheJumps at my home ski hill where lifts are used for bikes during the green seasons. For biking, it's called Pre-Ride, Re-Ride, Free Ride. The group was about a dozen women that included a couple raw beginners, intermediates, and a few advanced riders who had never had a lesson. I was one of the novices. The teaching was done on a green mountain bike trail. The first time we went slow, then stopped and got off our bikes at every feature. The instructors talked about what to look for and how to ride it. The second time we went slowish but didn't stop until we reached the lift again. The third time, people could ride whatever speed they were comfortable with.

Great advice! My main sport I have been doing for several years is Mountain Biking, both xc and lift-access downhill so I am very familiar with that 3-step approach. Never thought about how it translates to skiing though until you mentioned it. The first time I ever tried "the big lift" at my mountain I found myself J-stopping the entire way down, then a a few more times I found myself only stopping twice, maybe three times. Then after like 4-5 runs I can do it without stopping. It took me a while to get useto how steep everything was once I graduated off the bunny lift.

 

[diymom]

Love this advice, thank you! My current skis I feel like they might be a tad long for me. I have the Sheeva 9's in size 157. I am about 145lbs at 5'4". I like the way they cut into crust, which we tend to get a lot of crust/ice on the east coast, but I feel like I am getting useto them the more I ski. I am wondering if I go shorter I might feel more in control? Still new so I am not sure how length impacts performance yet.

If you get a chance to demo other skis, instead of only thinking about length, try some different widths too. Something in the low 80's underfoot, or even the high 70s. You might find that the quicker edge to edge of a narrower ski gives you a better feeling of being in control.

 

[marzNC]

Love this advice, thank you! My current skis I feel like they might be a tad long for me. I have the Sheeva 9's in size 157. I am about 145lbs at 5'4". I like the way they cut into crust, which we tend to get a lot of crust/ice on the east coast, but I feel like I am getting useto them the more I ski. I am wondering if I go shorter I might feel more in control? Still new so I am not sure how length impacts performance yet.

Measure how much of the skis are essentially flat on the ground. Meaning between the end of the tip rocker and the beginning of the tail rocker. That's sometimes called the "effective length" of a ski. That matters more than the total length because it takes into account the design of the ski.

Do you take lessons? If possible, a lesson with your new skis would help. Give the Sheeva 9s a little more time on snow. Maybe a few more runs on easier trails as you get a feel for how they react to your movements. Remember, can always sell later so you're not stuck with them forever.

Here's a comparison of stats for the same model ski in the 87mm width underfoot and the 97mm width underfoot. The screen shots are from Evo, which is where I look when I want to know technical specs for a model of interest. They have good prices too. Notice how the other stats change as the length changes. Took me years to understand that Turn Radius was a number I should consider when choosing between ski models because it changes with length. I was able to demo skis often enough to only buy skis I'd actually skied on for at least a bit. It used to hard to find all the numbers online. The full set was often only given for one length, which was always longer than what worked for me as a petite woman 5'0", 110 lbs.

When I was an adventurous intermediate, I demo'd wider skis around 160cm and liked them. My all-mountain skis at the time were mid-70s underfoot and 154cm. Having become a solid advanced skier after working with assorted instructors (all 20+ years experience), I have a quiver of skis these days. My all-mountain skis for skiing out west are 85mm @159cm, the skis I use in the east are only 147cm long, and I have powder skis 106mm @159cm. Bought the all-mountain skis after demo'ing a couple days at a destination resort and bought the other skis used from a Diva.


Found this video by Ingrid Backstrom introducing ski design concepts that she did for Evo. Don't worry about learning all the jargon yet. It will make more sense in a year or two.

November 2020

 

[Taryn]

If you get a chance to demo other skis, instead of only thinking about length, try some different widths too. Something in the low 80's underfoot, or even the high 70s. You might find that the quicker edge to edge of a narrower ski gives you a better feeling of being in control.

Definitely! I plan on going to every demo event I can this season!

 

[Taryn]

@marzNC omg! This is so helpful!! Thank you!

 

[liquidfeet]

Love this advice, thank you! My current skis I feel like they might be a tad long for me. I have the Sheeva 9's in size 157. I am about 145lbs at 5'4". I like the way they cut into crust, which we tend to get a lot of crust/ice on the east coast, but I feel like I am getting useto them the more I ski. I am wondering if I go shorter I might feel more in control? Still new so I am not sure how length impacts performance yet.

Your skis are just fine for you. Focus on building skills, not changing skis.
Feeling more in control comes from knowing, KNOWING, you can slow down and stop on whatever terrain you are on.
Focus on learning to maintain a really slow consistent downhill speed on a slick New England afternoon blue groomer.
So learning how to slow down - and stop - is key to diminishing and vanquishing fear of speed.

Skill is being able stay slow on something with pitch, not being willing to go fast.
Anyone can go fast. Gravity does that for you.
People who get used to going fast with low skills, who are unable to slow down, are called "meat missiles."
They are typically deluded about their skill level and they are dangerous.

How do you slow down now? What movements do you do?
How do you stop?

 

[Trailside Trixie]

Your skis are just fine for you. Focus on building skills, not changing skis.
Feeling more in control comes from knowing, KNOWING, you can slow down and stop on whatever terrain you are on.
Focus on learning to maintain a really slow consistent downhill speed on a slick New England afternoon blue groomer.
So learning how to slow down - and stop - is key to diminishing and vanquishing fear of speed.

Skill is being able stay slow on something with pitch, not being willing to go fast.
Anyone can go fast. Gravity does that for you.
People who get used to going fast with low skills, who are unable to slow down, are called "meat missiles."
They are typically deluded about their skill level and they are dangerous.

How do you slow down now? What movements do you do?
How do you stop?

Excellent advice. This is something I did "wrong" when I was first learning. I was so focused on the ski. As as if I was looking to solve/fix any ski problem with what was under my feet. I changed skis more than I should have.

Nowadays I like skis I probably didn't or wouldn't have liked when I was learning and can make any ski work. Still have my favorites but I realize now it's the driver of the skis (ME) that truly makes them work not the other way around.

I'm still not the fastest skier but it's by choice. I get a little cranky when people tell me to ski faster. My respons is why... speed doesn't equal skill. I'd rather skier slower and do it right than bomb down a trail. Speed can mask skill.

One thing I'm proud of is my ability to go down the steepest pitch super slow. I've often had people watch me ski slowly and carefully down a steep and go wow not even sure how you do that.

My next thing to work on is to make more turns down a steep and ski a bit more. Sometimes I get panicked and pivot slip my way down.