newboots
Angel Diva
As much as I dislike Vail, I do agree, @NewEnglandSkier . There is a lot of pent-up demand.
They could, of course, limit sales (Heaven forbid!).
They could, of course, limit sales (Heaven forbid!).
Drove home from Tahoe today after 5 days amazing skiing. The cars lined up about 6 miles (opposite direction where I was going) to get into Palisades. Not EPIC resort BTW. IKON. I imagine those poor souls in Truckee waited hours. This was at 11 am.
Mad River Glen stopped selling season passes last spring lol. I had a long lunch on Thursday and saw 4 other people (other than ski patrollers) on the slope. Heheh.They could, of course, limit sales (Heaven forbid!).
I have lived on the road in that picture for eight years. I’ve seen a lot of traffic. But I have never seen a back up into the next, almost, town! We’ve had other times where there were storms south and people flocked north. But not in these numbers. If you follow the Instagram account I mentioned that is everywhere that has epic.Regarding the photos above of liftlines and traffic backups----how much do you think is really attributable to the Epic Pass sales being really high this past year or how much is due to the storm that came through New England? I didn't pay any attention whether VT got any snow out of it, but here in eastern MA it was pretty common to see 6-12 inches---so we know that people see snow in their back yards and automatically head north to ski . . . . .I mean I saw something on another forum about Killington being packed as well--and they are associated with Ikon.
Same with Tahoe---didn't they just get a ton of snow? Which will cause everyone in California to head there--whether they have a pass or not?
Not New England, but prior to Vail purchasing Jack Frost, we'd get discount tickets to ski there a few times a year (on top of our Montage passes), and I've never seen or heard of traffic backing up the entire length of the access road and out onto 940. Maybe the few inches they got played a small role, but I can't imagine it's the main cause.Regarding the photos above of liftlines and traffic backups----how much do you think is really attributable to the Epic Pass sales being really high this past year or how much is due to the storm that came through New England? I didn't pay any attention whether VT got any snow out of it, but here in eastern MA it was pretty common to see 6-12 inches---so we know that people see snow in their back yards and automatically head north to ski . . . . .I mean I saw something on another forum about Killington being packed as well--and they are associated with Ikon.
Same with Tahoe---didn't they just get a ton of snow? Which will cause everyone in California to head there--whether they have a pass or not?
Good point. Lack of snow or big snowstorms are always a key factor for any region. Holiday periods are typically when locals stay away, but a big snowstorm after low snow conditions might change the situation.Regarding the photos above of liftlines and traffic backups----how much do you think is really attributable to the Epic Pass sales being really high this past year or how much is due to the storm that came through New England?
Hmm . . . wonder if a lot more people who are local to the Pononos discovered that the northeast Epic pass exists and decided to get it for 2021-22 because of the pandemic. Did seem pretty clear last season there were people who either decided to avoid flying or discovered that there is fun to be had at small mountains in the mid-Atlantic.Not New England, but prior to Vail purchasing Jack Frost, we'd get discount tickets to ski there a few times a year (on top of our Montage passes), and I've never seen or heard of traffic backing up the entire length of the access road and out onto 940. Maybe the few inches they got played a small role, but I can't imagine it's the main cause.
The first year (or second?) that Ikon existed was a good snow year for LCC/BCC and Jackson Hole. Few of the unhappy locals wanted to hear that the number of visits by season passholders was up substantially while the percentage of people using Ikon wasn't that big.We have friends who made and pass out anti-IKON stickers and gear at Alta. Reading this makes me realize just how much worse it could be. I'm so sad/angry for all those dealing with VR's unconscionable actions at their home resorts.
I do think the pandemic has played some role. Even Montage has been far busier the last two seasons. Used to be you hardly ever had a lift line of more than a few people down on the North Face Phoebe lift. Last two years it backs up sometimes to the bottom of the run out from Cannonball. Line on the Boomer and White Lightning side is always shorter because more difficult terrain. Yesterday it was taking about 20 minutes to do a full lap down on the North Face/Phoebe lift.Hmm . . . wonder if a lot more people who are local to the Pononos discovered that the northeast Epic pass exists and decided to get it for 2021-22 because of the pandemic. Did seem pretty clear last season there were people who either decided to avoid flying or discovered that there is fun to be had at small mountains in the mid-Atlantic.
No Epic locations in the southeast. Only a few Indy locations. Overall, last season was a good one for all the ski areas/resorts in that region. Combination of many days of snowmaking weather and pent up demand from people who stayed closer to home for outdoor recreation all winter.
Plus the current ownership and management of Montage have done a good job of operating the place in recent years. Takes a while, but I would guess the reputation of Montage is quite different now than shortly after the "Snö" period ended in 2012.I do think the pandemic has played some role. Even Montage has been far busier the last two seasons. Used to be you hardly ever had a lift line of more than a few people down on the North Face Phoebe lift. Last two years it backs up sometimes to the bottom of the run out from Cannonball. Boomer and White Lightning side is always shorter because more difficult terrain. Yesterday it was taking about 20 minutes to do a full lap down on the North Face/Phoebe lift.
A big difference between the business model between Alterra and VR is that the destination resorts owned by Alterra run operations pretty much separately. More like what Powdr does. Killington doesn't have to do the same as Snowbird or Bachelor.Just wondering. With all of the dissatisfaction over Epic, do you think there will be a mass exodus to IKON? I’m very curious to know what Alterra thinks will happen and how they’re planning to respond.
I know that some IKON resorts have had their share of issues (looking at you, Crystal) but I can’t imagine they will want to have the same deterioration in quality and overcrowding that Epic has had this year, especially at IKON’s partner resorts. That would definitely run the risk of causing the partners to drop the partnership ASAP.
I've been wondering the same thing. I can imagine a certain percentage of people may be "forced" to stick with Epic if they own ski in/out homes and condos at one of their resorts and want to continue to use that amenity (one could of course argue that they sell the property and buy elsewhere--and while some may choose to do so, that may not be feasible for everyone/not something that would be undertaken lightly). I'd imagine that the percentage of people that will be "forced" into sticking with Epic due to lodging is rather small in the grand scheme of things though---so yeah, I can't help but wonder if everything that isn't Epic will end up even more crowded next season.Just wondering. With all of the dissatisfaction over Epic, do you think there will be a mass exodus to IKON?
I've been wondering the same thing. I can imagine a certain percentage of people may be "forced" to stick with Epic if they own ski in/out homes and condos at one of their resorts and want to continue to use that amenity (one could of course argue that they sell the property and buy elsewhere--and while some may choose to do so, that may not be feasible for everyone/not something that would be undertaken lightly). I'd imagine that the percentage of people that will be "forced" into sticking with Epic due to lodging is rather small in the grand scheme of things though---so yeah, I can't help but wonder if everything that isn't Epic will end up even more crowded next season.
Will be interesting to see what happens.
For people like us, who willingly devote a substantial portion of our discretionary spending to snow sports, that definitely seems like the way to go. Assuming budget allows, I think my go-forward plan will always be to maintain a pass at Mad River Glen and a multi-resort pass. But, I wonder how generalizable that is to the many thousands of skiers and riders who are more cost or value conscious.That's sort of my dilemma. I live less than 10 minutes from Okemo, so of COURSE I'm going to get the Epic pass, even though I'm not happy with the way things are going. That said, I've made sure I have other options, too, which I'll continue into next season. That includes the IKON Base pass, which allows me to ski at Sugarbush and Stratton (unlimited) -- both a bit of a drive, but not too bad -- as well as 5 days at Killington. And I have a midweek pass at Bromley, a smaller independent resort about 40 minutes away. So maybe other people will do the same thing.
I think this paragraph is key as far as the risk to Vail goes. Bringing a Washington state law claim will be costly and time consuming for consumers, but if the consumer affairs regulator finds evidence of non-compliance that could certainly jeopardize their permit.“Additionally, the Steven’s Pass Ski Area Permit also requires compliance with state and local laws and regulations,” he added. “If the State of Washington determines a law has been violated, we will address the matter at that time.”