Bumps

[artistinsuburbia]

Did you know that @Pandita is an instructor at 7Springs?

I did not. I'll have to see if I can get together with her for a lesson.

 

[bounceswoosh]

I have been practicing outside the bumps, for about 6 years. I've been stuck at level 7/8 for a while. Always afraid of the bumps. I'm a very confident skier outside of them. I'd say that having these skills mastered outside of the bumps is the only reason that I find myself wanting to ski them now. It's gotten rather boring staying on the groomers all the time.

This may be heresy, but I've never found practicing outside the bumps to be all that helpful for bumps. The trouble isn't making short turns (although I certainly tend toward long turns - they're less tiring), but the fact that bumps have different shapes and aren't evenly spaced. You need to be able to make short, precise turns in the bumps, but beyond that I think this is one of those things you just kind of have to do to get better.

OTOH, I do endorse bumps as practice for trees. They're different, but both require rapid adaptation.

 

[marzNC]

During the lesson with Stew (PSIA Examiner) at Snowbasin in Jan, what he wanted us to do (3 students Level 7/8) was not worry about the irregularities of soft, relatively low bumps (warm temps, not very steep) and just keep turning with rhythm. Heard much the same from my L3 instructor at Massanutten. They both mention "flowing like water."

For me, I have no interest in learning to ski a bump zipper line. The reason I practice skiing bumps at small mountains (or short bump sections on a big mountain) is to get more comfortable with variable terrain like you find off-piste or on groomers after the snow is pushed around. I started dealing with bumps several years ago with the goal of skiing trees out west. That was after I learned that skiing trees was the way to find powder a day or two or more after a powder storm. The skills that are needed for a trail that is obviously a bump run turn out to be very useful in lots of other situations.

 

[Skisailor]

I have been practicing outside the bumps, for about 6 years. I've been stuck at level 7/8 for a while. Always afraid of the bumps. I'm a very confident skier outside of them. I'd say that having these skills mastered outside of the bumps is the only reason that I find myself wanting to ski them now. It's gotten rather boring staying on the groomers all the time.

Hi Artistinsuburbia.
Can I ask what particular skills you've been practicing on the groomed?

I ask only because I was where you are for a very long time. I was fine on the groomed but get me off into bumps trees, powder, whatever . . . And my tried and true groomer technique fell apart.

Turned out it really didn't matter how good I looked or felt on the groomed. Skiing bumps well required new skills that I simply didn't have yet.

Climbingbetty and SkiBam are right on when they emphasize rotary and side slipping drills - like pivot slips and falling leafs.

I think for most aspiring bump skiers, slowing it all down is the key. Skiing the bumps as slowly as you want to is the key to mastering them. And to do that, you need to be able to reliably get OFF your edges and pivot your skis in short radius turns.

I found Lito Tejada Flores' bumps and powder video really helpful. And he has some great drills for on the groomers. I used that video to get me going and then got some excellent instruction. And I've managed to become a confident bump skier later in my ski career - after literally decades of groomer skiing. Like SkiBam, I don't ski them fast. But the big/steep ones no longer intimidate me and I've learned to have a total blast on the rest.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

I have been practicing outside the bumps, for about 6 years. I've been stuck at level 7/8 for a while. Always afraid of the bumps. I'm a very confident skier outside of them. I'd say that having these skills mastered outside of the bumps is the only reason that I find myself wanting to ski them now. It's gotten rather boring staying on the groomers all the time.

I have only been skiing for about 4 years and I am about the same level as you now and I feel the same way about bumps as you. I want to ski them cause it's fun to break away from groomers. I agree what @bounceswoosh said about the best practice actually skiing the bumps. Yes, one needs a certain level of technique before attempting skiing bumps that is achieved by drills and practicing short radius turns, but after that point it's all about mileage in the bumps in my experience. I have decent rotary/side slipping skills, can do short radius turns well too, but still freeze up in bumps that are big/steep. In other words I have most of the technique required for skiing bumps, but it still hasn't translated into bumps confidence. I am hopeful though, maybe with more practice and lessons I will get there if not this season then the next.
As about trees I will say that I skied a lot of easy (some tight, some open, but never steep) trees at Alta recently and tremendously enjoyed it. Can't wait to ski some easy trees at Big Sky!

 

[artistinsuburbia]

Hi Artistinsuburbia.
Can I ask what particular skills you've been practicing on the groomed?

I ask only because I was where you are for a very long time. I was fine on the groomed but get me off into bumps trees, powder, whatever . . . And my tried and true groomer technique fell apart.

Turned out it really didn't matter how good I looked or felt on the groomed. Skiing bumps well required new skills that I simply didn't have yet.

Climbingbetty and SkiBam are right on when they emphasize rotary and side slipping drills - like pivot slips and falling leafs.

I think for most aspiring bump skiers, slowing it all down is the key. Skiing the bumps as slowly as you want to is the key to mastering them. And to do that, you need to be able to reliably get OFF your edges and pivot your skis in short radius turns.

I found Lito Tejada Flores' bumps and powder video really helpful. And he has some great drills for on the groomers. I used that video to get me going and then got some excellent instruction. And I've managed to become a confident bump skier later in my ski career - after literally decades of groomer skiing. Like SkiBam, I don't ski them fast. But the big/steep ones no longer intimidate me and I've learned to have a total blast on the rest.

I spend a lot of time chasing after my hubby and son who are expert level skiers. They fly through the trees and bumps and I have always stayed on the outside edge practicing going over a bump or two then returning to the groomers, I take odd routes off trail that are troughs and mini jumps where I've learned to use my legs as shock absorbers so that I don't launch off of them. there is a cleared glade area at hidden valley that is barely a 14% grade and good distance between trees, so that makes for a great practice spot, albeit a bumpy one in a different way. I can pivot slip all day on a groomer. So oddly, I really believe that I have the concepts down, I just can't execute them on a steep grade with any grace or rhythm. I am able to side slip them as that is one of the first things I learned to do when following the crazies and ending up somewhere with no other way down. I really think leg strength is a big problem for me. This is still only my second season back after losing an entire year to two torn ankle ligaments. Side slips in heavy amounts of snow. Boom, that's my issue.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

I have only been skiing for about 4 years and I am about the same level as you now and I feel the same way about bumps as you. I want to ski them cause it's fun to break away from groomers. I agree what @bounceswoosh said about the best practice actually skiing the bumps. Yes, one needs a certain level of technique before attempting skiing bumps that is achieved by drills and practicing short radius turns, but after that point it's all about mileage in the bumps in my experience. I have decent rotary/side slipping skills, can do short radius turns well too, but still freeze up in bumps that are big/steep. In other words I have most of the technique required for skiing bumps, but it still hasn't translated into bumps confidence. I am hopeful though, maybe with more practice and lessons I will get there if not this season then the next.
As about trees I will say that I skied a lot of easy (some tight, some open, but never steep) trees at Alta recently and tremendously enjoyed it. Can't wait to ski some easy trees at Big Sky!

That's just the thing. I've been skiing for over 15 years now. And not just a ski trip here and there, I'm talking 32-52 days a season skiing. I should be able to do this. It's so frustrating. My friend who was with me, was like, what? there is no way you can't ski bumps. I think @bounceswoosh is on to something.

This may be heresy, but I've never found practicing outside the bumps to be all that helpful for bumps. The trouble isn't making short turns (although I certainly tend toward long turns - they're less tiring), but the fact that bumps have different shapes and aren't evenly spaced. You need to be able to make short, precise turns in the bumps, but beyond that I think this is one of those things you just kind of have to do to get better.

I think it's just a matter of me tending toward long turns and I'm not used to the idea. LOL. Wish I could get out to the mountain sooner than later. the brain has a habit of making revelations after the fact. I also think I'm keeping my stance a little too wide. I tend to kick out the downhill ski in a long turn. bumps seem to require me to keep the downhill leg in a little tighter? so I think I'm feeling a little unstable with the tighter stance and that's just a comfort thing.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

@Skisailor this?

OMG this is so helpful thank you! I'm choosing the fast lane, hence the lack of speed control. wow. so VERY HELPFUL!!!

 

[Skisailor]

I spend a lot of time chasing after my hubby and son who are expert level skiers. They fly through the trees and bumps and I have always stayed on the outside edge practicing going over a bump or two then returning to the groomers, I take odd routes off trail that are troughs and mini jumps where I've learned to use my legs as shock absorbers so that I don't launch off of them. there is a cleared glade area at hidden valley that is barely a 14% grade and good distance between trees, so that makes for a great practice spot, albeit a bumpy one in a different way. I can pivot slip all day on a groomer. So oddly, I really believe that I have the concepts down, I just can't execute them on a steep grade with any grace or rhythm. I am able to side slip them as that is one of the first things I learned to do when following the crazies and ending up somewhere with no other way down. I really think leg strength is a big problem for me. This is still only my second season back after losing an entire year to two torn ankle ligaments. Side slips in heavy amounts of snow. Boom, that's my issue.

So it sounds like you should get some instruction! Someone who can take those skills you've been working on and put it all together for you in the bumps. I have seen skiers go from the groomed into skiing beginning bumps pretty well in one really good and well taught bump lesson.

ETA: Oh. Just saw the video. Yep. That's the one.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I have seen skiers go from the groomed into skiing beginning bumps pretty well in one really good and well taught bump lesson.

As have I, and we both know him, eh? Was always what he loved teaching most. You'd think, after this many decades, I'd have garnered better skills, ha!
I still marvel at the s l o w m o demo/movement capability, how does he do that?

 

[Skisailor]

As have I, and we both know him, eh? Was always what he loved teaching most. You'd think, after this many decades, I'd have garnered better skills, ha!
I still marvel at the s l o w m o demo/movement capability, how does he do that?

Yup! We know him ok!

And ya gotta love that super slow mo bump skiing!!

 

[litterbug]

she also had as traverse bumps without turning to practice absorption.

Great tip to start working on! It would have been nice to get a feel for absorption before skiing Three Bears. On the other hand, it was great to realize that I could stay upright sliding up and down those little whoop-de-doos without having any idea what I was doing--except when that little gully gave me enough time to decide that I was going to fall...

 

[2bjenny]

I have been working with an L3 instructor on bumps this season. Early this year, we started with drills for being centered on skis & body down the hill. Then we progressed to the "dolphin" turns. Last week we worked on pivot slips, falling leaf, and horse & cart drill, focusing on the femur, tibia & foot rotation (winding & unwinding) in slow controlled turns. I seem to keep getting my poles taken away for most of these drills! After an early lunch break, we moved to steeper double blue and black terrain. I was amazed how easily, with the skills developed in the drills, I was able to pick my line, pivot on top of the bump, and keeping my tips in contact with the snow, slide down the backside ready to turn on top of the next bump, in a slow and controlled manner. All this, without feeling like I was working hard or my knees taking a beating. It's not great yet, but I'm definitely becoming more comfortable and can see how the drills apply to skiing bumps. This was in fresh snow though, not hard, icy bumps.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Great tip to start working on! It would have been nice to get a feel for absorption before skiing Three Bears. On the other hand, it was great to realize that I could stay upright sliding up and down those little whoop-de-doos without having any idea what I was doing--except when that little gully gave me enough time to decide that I was going to fall...

You did so well in those trees though! The day before I fell on a similar feature on the off-piste gate off Rock-n-Roll, so I hear you. marzNC friend JC was in the front was yelling to jump when I was close to it, but I was like what did you want me to do and bam I'm down lol. But the snow was soft so all good. But yes you are absolutely right it's best to get a feel for absorption by traversing on some small easy bumps first, not big whoop-de-doos in the trees.

 

[bounceswoosh]

When I know I'm going over ruts or whoop de doos, I can kind of make my body "slack" in a way that allows me to flow over the features and just let it happen. I consciously center my balance over my boots, release the tension from my shoulders, hold my hands forward, and just let it happen. But I can't slacken my body in that way and also turn; it's definitely something I only do when I'm skiing in a straight line. Hm. I wonder if there's a relationship between what I do when I'm about to hit some excitement on a runout, and what my instructor was saying about me tensing my quads etc. when I don't actually need to be using them on steeps. @KatyPerrey ?

 

[litterbug]

I thought those runs were fabulous, Olesya!! Next time I'm up there I plan on trying some of those open runs right off of Cecret. I feel okay doing easy stuff that's so close to a groomer that gets regular use.

Apparently what got me through the whoop-dee-doos was being forward (actually, centered) and IMO that was because I now have a habit of 'keeping my feet under me.' I know I'm supposed to keep my weight centered, so maybe I'm cheating by pulling my feet back or in. Whatever works, I guess.

None of that worked once I made that wrong turn, though. I'm just glad I cleared the gully and didn't fall into it.

 

[climbingbetty]

I will second (or third) who ever has said, "at some point you've got to get in the bumps to learn how to ski them."

For instructor training and my own edification, I have been working on pivot slips, falling leafs, short radius turns, etc. since the beginning of the season. Though I can do all of these things, it hasn't magically made me a confident bumps skier.

Yesterday morning I went out to catch some of the fresh snow that dumped on Monday. Many trails had been groomed, a few were chop/crud. I spied a line in the trees to skier's right of one of the blue runs. Since it was the same terrain, I figured it wouldn't be too bad. I decided to try and work on that instead of lapping the steep runs.

The first run was a little rough, especially since there was thin cover in several places (the firs were so thick, not much of the snow could get to the ground!) Every time I scraped a rock or a root I got distracted thinking "my bases! my edges!!! Also because of the fear, I was way in the backseat. I had to make my turns essentially where everyone before me had or else my skis would get caught in the deeper stuff and not turn at all. But the biggest thing I found was that I had to do a lot more side-slipping then carving! The tree line exited out of the woods and right into bumps. Ugh! Luckily these weren't those rock hard ones with ice in between. They were pretty soft and so was the snow in between actually. The perfect ones to begin learning on! I just had to watch for a few places where the ruts were really deep. I started out as many others have mentioned here- traverse three or four bumps, quick, short turn, then traverse back a few more & repeat as necessary. A few laps of that later... I can't say it was the prettiest skiing ever and I still have a lot of work to do, but I was actually kind of having fun, especially in the trees! My whole motivation as a skier is about being a better backcountry skier and ski mountaineer. Earlier this season I took an AIARE 1 course and on the final day, we skied the Sherbourne ski trail on Mt. Washington. Though it's only an intermediate trail, at best, I struggled bitterly on that damn thing. Whoop-de-doos at the the water bars, narrow at the top (well, narrow compared to width of a run at the resort) and bumps/chop in the natural snow from everyone who had skied it before. Here I was trying to make my pretty arcing edge/carved turns and it wasn't working at all. There just wasn't the space or snow conditions to make that happen. Needless to say, that was the longest 2 miles ski of my life! I'll even admit that I cried just a little because I was so embarrassed- my classmates knew I was a ski instructor and yet I couldn't ski this stuff to save my life!!

Anyway, the point is that nothing that I had done on groomers really had prepared me for that kind of skiing. So when I jumped into the woods yesterday, it was solely to practice that kind of skiing so that the next time I'm on the Sherbie, I have way more fun!!!

For the OP, I would say if you are a level 7/8 skier, its time to get off the groomers and get in to the bumps if you want to learn how to ski them. I know I'm now looking forward to the next chance I get to get into some bumps, play around with some of things I'm learning and see what happens.

 

[snow addict]

What helped me a lot was that my instructor broke down bump skiing into several elements and we worked on them separately. I was shown basic bump turn on rather mellow bumps, I was also taken to steep bumps and shown how to cross them, I was shown how to step-turn on bumps, but then we started focusing only on one single element per time and every time we skied bump fields and sometimes steep ones progressing to big itineraries where you have 900 vertical meters of moguls and rocky gullies without options to bail out apart from climb back or call the rescue and live with shame . My instructor used to tell me for example he didn't care how I initiated the turn, but wanted to see a strong pole plant. Next time it would be something else, like absorption, then good rhythm. It the beginning it was gentle like a turn on every 3 bumps no matter how, no stops until 6 turns, but got more intense. Bumps are fun really. And they are your friends, not enemies. They help you to turn. All your turns are already sized and shaped for you, all you need is to steer your skis and absorb bumps. And it will be getting better and easier every time you ski them, by small increments or by leaps, the point is that if you want to ski bumps you'll ski them. And they help to improve overall ski form, they can be a revelation about true meaning of dynamics, balance and stance.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

I struggled bitterly on that damn thing. Whoop-de-doos at the the water bars, narrow at the top (well, narrow compared to width of a run at the resort) and bumps/chop in the natural snow from everyone who had skied it before. Here I was trying to make my pretty arcing edge/carved turns and it wasn't working at all.

Sounds familiar!! I am definitely not afraid of them anymore. Feeling very challenged by them to conquer them. With all this great advice and that fabulous video a lot of light bulbs have gone on. Now, if I could only get back to the mountain sometime soon....

 

[Skisailor]

I will second (or third) who ever has said, "at some point you've got to get in the bumps to learn how to ski them."

For instructor training and my own edification, I have been working on pivot slips, falling leafs, short radius turns, etc. since the beginning of the season. Though I can do all of these things, it hasn't magically made me a confident bumps skier.

That's right! . But if you've truly mastered those rotational skills you are at the jumping off point! Now you need a good lesson from an instructor who will show you how to translate those skills into good bump skiing. And that means how to ski them as slowly as you want. They should also give you strategies for managing the nastiest of the deep or canyony ones.

Once you can ski them slowly you will start to become more at ease and can then gradually begin to ski them faster and with more of a mix of the 3 skill blend - some edge and pressure with steering - some pivots, etc. as the terrain and your comfort level allows.

Keep moving forward!