Bumps

[artistinsuburbia]

So I'm not sure if this is a gear thread or a tips thread. Is there a right/wrong ski to use on bumps? I only own one pair of skis right now, and they claimed to be all mountain, but are only 74 under foot and fully cambered. So to me, they are awesome on the groomers/ice and ski a nice gs line. they aren't really quick on the turn. So I just skied bumps for the first time and my brain hasn't left the hill since Friday when I was skiing. it was a cold one, 9 degrees with a negative 15 windchill, so the snow was the fluffy stuff, at least what was there, along with a TON of skied off ice. I had to pick a line with snow. But when I hit it, I would sink and couldn't turn my feet. So is this leg strength? which I already know is lacking. But I can't help to wonder if a fatter, rockered ski might help me. What are your recommends?

 

[bounceswoosh]

There's a reason people talk about bumps so much. They are hard to ski - especially hard to ski well.

I'm confused by your description of hitting snow that would sink you and you couldn't turn your feet. Usually the soft snow in scraped bumps is up along the side; when you say you couldn't turn your feet, I picture more that you were stuck in a trough. Can you describe the stuck-ness in more detail?

As for gear, a fatter ski is pretty much never the answer for bumps. Narrow is better.

Or, as I told a friend Friday, "These are the wrong skis for bumps. And that's a BS excuse." She agreed on both points. I was on the wrong skis entirely (110 underfoot), and also if you can ski bumps, you can ski them on any ski.

 

[marzNC]

So I'm not sure if this is a gear thread or a tips thread. Is there a right/wrong ski to use on bumps? I only own one pair of skis right now, and they claimed to be all mountain, but are only 74 under foot and fully cambered. So to me, they are awesome on the groomers/ice and ski a nice gs line. they aren't really quick on the turn. So I just skied bumps for the first time and my brain hasn't left the hill since Friday when I was skiing. it was a cold one, 9 degrees with a negative 15 windchill, so the snow was the fluffy stuff, at least what was there, along with a TON of skied off ice. I had to pick a line with snow. But when I hit it, I would sink and couldn't turn my feet. So is this leg strength? which I already know is lacking. But I can't help to wonder if a fatter, rockered ski might help me. What are your recommends?

You were skiing in PA, correct? Based on my experience in recent years skiing bumps on carvers (70cm, Mid-Altantic, northeast), Black Pearls (88cm, all over), and slightly fatter skis (97-99cm, Rockies) my guess is that your issues are probably more lack of experience on bumps, especially in that type of mixed snow conditions than the width of the skis.

What I've learned from more than one Level 3 instructor is that skiing bumps is not a matter of strength if you learn how to choose a line and absorb/extend without having to think too much. Also learned that you don't need many bumps to start learning what to do. Massanutten has one trail with 12-15 big humps and another with maybe 100 feet of seeded bumps. That's where I started learning how to have fun in bumps.

 

[Jilly]

I ski my 68 Hero's in bumps or my Attraxion 12's (72). If for some reason we had a dump of pow, then I would take out the 88's. But on average, one of my carvers for our bumps here in the east. I need something that will cut the ice.

As for sinking...Are you skiing the tops, or the valleys... Tops are easier as the skis are unweighted and pivot easier.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Some skis are better than others --- but rather than a dialogue of what works for me....better to get you underway with the advice of getting some input/instruction. Learning bumps is a process. A long one. One step at a time. This would be a great time to get started; I look at them as, at the very least, a survival skill - hopefully eventually enjoyable for you.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

ok so I've basically got the right ski on. clearly I'm a rookie at this. the deep stuff was sitting on the tops and the sides and troughs were solid ice. My friend, who is a phenomenal skier, was with me and I was following her line at first. Odd how I instantly reverted back to turning my upper body vs. keeping square shoulders and letting the hips and legs move. So after she pointed that out, it really helped me to focus. I really figured out the whole reach out ahead for the pole plant, but that went right out the window if I picked up any kind of speed. When left to my own devices, picking a line meant a fairly straight one and skiing the sides, sort of bouncing off of each one back and forth. I've got the shock absorber thing down, as I had been practicing that prior to this for this purpose. I just am finding my turns very slow and I miss the rhythm and end up three bumps over before I find a rhythm again. so depending on traffic, some bumps were soft snow and some were solid ice. it was rough, not going to lie. @bounceswoosh. does that make sense? it wasn't always a trough. these were smaller bumps newly forming out of the chop where I had the most trouble, the larger ones were a little easier to handle, especially on the less steep areas. @marzNC yes, PA Seven Springs. The bumps under Gunnar lift. I could avoid the top and jump in half way down where the hill was less steep off of the Gunnar slope through the trees. @MaineSkiLady bring it, I'm all ears.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

For the record --- it's slow going anyway (well, it is for me!) - slower than groomed skiing. And it's OKAY to traverse over a few bumps, it will help you learn absorption/extension. Actually preferable for you at this stage.

No time for any dissertations, this is something best learned with an instructor and by feel. And enormous amounts of practice/perseverance. Stay with it!

 

[artistinsuburbia]

Look what I found. I was jumping in from where the chair is at 1:54 and down from there. this shows the hill groomed but it isn't currently.

 

[marzNC]

Maybe @LauraVa or @Olesya Chornoguz can share what Julie (L3 instructor) was suggesting when they were working on the MAKAttack humps during the special Women's Clinic (Sun AM) at Massanutten in early Jan. @dianakate and I did that run a couple times with her on Fri evening, but I don't remember exactly what Julie said. I do remember traversing across bumps both at Mnut and at JH as part of a lesson. Meaning just traversing without worrying at all about making a turn in the bumps.

 

[Olesya Chornoguz]

Julie made us do falling leaf and side slipping drills to get a better feel of how to steer skis. Falling leaf is basically side slipping by going forward an back perpendicular to the slope. Her tip for skiing bumps was to turn on top and side slip down the side of the bump and she also had as traverse bumps without turning to practice absorption. Pole planting is very important in the bumps too as it was already mentioned above. I have taken 2 lessons at Alta, during my recent SLC trip and what I have learned about having a tall relaxed, stance, to be able to absorb better, another tip was to point tips of your skis down when you are turning on top of the bottom. And yes, just like everyone else said skiing bumps is very challenging and takes long time to learn! I have a decent technique on groomers, but only starting to ski bumps with various degrees of success. I can ski bumps that are smaller, but big ones freak me out - it's a mental issue, which probably only can be overcome with mileage. I get scared if the bumps are big, steep, icy or all three. In that case I side slip and traverse them.

 

[Pequenita]

So to me, they are awesome on the groomers/ice and ski a nice gs line. *** But I can't help to wonder if a fatter, rockered ski might help me. What are your recommends?

ok so I've basically got the right ski on.

Actually, arguably, the skis could be stiff. I don't recommend going out and buying a ski specifically to ski bumps, but if your skis are awesome on groomers and ice in PA, your skis are probably not soft. Also, a lot of the bumps in the mid-Atlantic are irregular, which makes it difficult to pick up a rhythm.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

so this three bumps over thing is just like traversing. hmmmm. so that's what I'm supposed to be doing?? there are no opportunities for lessons here aside from maybe a private. They are much more geared toward beginners. only list packages that include lift tickets and ski rentals and things I don't really need. Might have to call.

@pequentita good point, but I'd argue it's my technique more than the ski. K2 One luv's. I can't find a black pearl in a 166 to demo so I've been holding out on new ones.

 

[snow addict]

Rockered ski or twin tips will be better in bumps, though ultimately any all-mountain skis should be OK. It's not the ski that is not quick on the turn in bumps, especially if they are 74 mm width, but rather your legs. Try to stand taller - it may prevent sinking - when you are down your skis are under lot of pressure and will be hard to turn. Nothing to worry about, you have to start somewhere. A private lesson may be your answer. There are plenty tips for mogul skiing but you want someone to assess your performance and break down mogul skiing into something easier to digest. Once it's done it will be easier to understand lot of tips out there and select those more applicable to your case.

 

[SkiBam]

Dont know if anyone has said, but start by practising OUTSIDE the bumps - short-radius turns, sideslipping (someone mentioned falling leaf and that's good), mixing skidding and steering throughout the turn. Then, as has been said, go into the bumps and start by traversing, absorbing several bumps one at a time as you cross the slope. Then add in a turn and repeat. I'm quite sure that at the level I ski bumps (which I sometimes refer to as the old lady style - ie. gently) the ski doesn't make a huge difference. You just want a ski you're comfortable on.

 

[marzNC]

there are no opportunities for lessons here aside from maybe a private. They are much more geared toward beginners. only list packages that include lift tickets and ski rentals and things I don't really need. Might have to call.

Hmm . . . never noticed before that 7Springs doesn't give any prices for group or private lessons that aren't part of a package deal. That's unusual. Certainly worth a call.

Did you know that @Pandita is an instructor at 7Springs?

My observation is that most adults at smaller ski areas (SE, MidA) don't think there is a reason to take group lessons past the beginner stage. Olesya took advantage of the early season discounted price for "group" lessons last Dec and ended up the only student with a very experienced Level 3 instructor more than once. At Massanutten, an intermediate who does the 90-min lesson (offered 3 times a day) rarely ends up with more than 3 in the group even on holiday weekends. They split people up by ability and age, and most are barely advanced beginners.

 

[climbingbetty]

I would just add that pivot slips are probably also a great exercise for imprinting the rotary movements that you need to ski bumps effectively.

Personally, I suck at bumps. They are my kryptonite. I completely fall apart in them. This needs to change for many reasons, but suffice it to say, I am going to take a PSIA Intro to Bumps clinic next month to begin to rectify this. In the meantime, I have been picking up a few things from my fellow instructors who are definitely a lot better in bumps than I.

1.) A narrower stance is needed in the bumps. This is probably one of the reasons I struggle. The more scared & unbalanced I feel, the more I want to widen up my stance to feel more stable.
2.) It's really all about rotary skills. Which are what I am the weakest at. Edging? check. Pressure? Check. Rotary?


As others have stated, since bumps are really technique intensive, I would invest money into instruction to learn how to ski them better before I would buy new skis. Also, unless you are skiing bumps frequently or they are your favorite thing to ski, it seems unnecessary to buy a "bumps" ski. I may be making an assumption here, but it sounds to me like you just want to know how to ski bumps better for when you do encounter them or so you can better ski the whole mountain. In that case, I definitely would not get a bumps-specifc ski, but rather learn to ski bumps effectively with the the all mountain skis that you have, realizing that "all-mountain ski" is another way of saying, "jack of all trades, master of none." So will they be the best ski you could have in the bumps? No. But they are sufficient.

 

[bounceswoosh]

When left to my own devices, picking a line meant a fairly straight one and skiing the sides, sort of bouncing off of each one back and forth. I've got the shock absorber thing down, as I had been practicing that prior to this for this purpose. I just am finding my turns very slow and I miss the rhythm and end up three bumps over before I find a rhythm again. so depending on traffic, some bumps were soft snow and some were solid ice. it was rough, not going to lie. @bounceswoosh. does that make sense? it wasn't always a trough. these were smaller bumps newly forming out of the chop where I had the most trouble, the larger ones were a little easier to handle, especially on the less steep areas.

You may be quite a bit more athletic / fast twitch muscle-y than me - I have never gotten the hang of bouncing off of the bumps, or rather, have always been too chicken to try.

I can't quite picture what you're describing, but that's okay. Certainly if you are going slowly through the bumps, it's possible to get fully stopped by a bump.

There are roughly one million ways to ski the bumps, and some of them only apply to some bumps. It's incredibly dynamic, and I would be pretty shocked if anyone posted, "So, I got into the bumps for the first time, and it's awesome and I totally felt like I knew what I was doing."

In bumps, losing your rhythm and having to get it back is pretty normal. What you want to shoot for is instead of losing/gaining, more of having different approaches so that you don't lose your rhythm; you choose a different approach appropriate to the next few bumps, and then choose a different approach for the next few, etc, as needed. You'll be a much better bump skier if you build up a whole repertoire of techniques, rather than a single one. Remember that mogul competitions don't have bumps shaped the same way us regular folk get them, and you as a recreational skier are not being judged by one extremely narrow view of "good" bump skiing. Also pro bump skiers eventually blow out their knees and can't ski like that anymore. My goal is to get better at what @SkiBam described as "old lady" bump skiing. There's a guy in his 80s who skis the double black bumps out here. I don't want to have to stop skiing bumps as I get older because I never learned how to do it smoothly (I'm not there yet).

If I had to guess based on my own experience, you are probably losing your rhythm because you are not centered fore/aft - probably in the back seat - and then when you hit something you're not fully prepared for, you get tossed around, probably breaking at the waist.

 

[snow cat]

My observation is that most adults at smaller ski areas (SE, MidA) don't think there is a reason to take group lessons past the beginner stage. Olesya took advantage of the early season discounted price for "group" lessons last Dec and ended up the only student with a very experienced Level 3 instructor more than once. At Massanutten, an intermediate who does the 90-min lesson (offered 3 times a day) rarely ends up with more than 3 in the group even on holiday weekends. They split people up by ability and age, and most are barely advanced beginners.

This has been true for me. I have taken group lessons from Roundtop and Liberty (both in PA) during weekdays and they always turned out to be private lessons. I think it's for the reason marzNC noted above. Keep an eye out for early season (Dec and maybe January) for discounted lessons. And at Roundtop, there's a ladies' day (every Tuesday I believe) during the season where you can get a deal on cheap lesson and lift ticket.

 

[marzNC]

At Massanutten, unless a Level 2/3 instructor has a private lesson scheduled, they available for line up for group lessons. Fair to say that an intermediate who is interested in learning bumps will be taught by one of the more experienced (5+ years, often 10+ years) instructors.

 

[artistinsuburbia]

Dont know if anyone has said, but start by practising OUTSIDE the bumps - short-radius turns, sideslipping (someone mentioned falling leaf and that's good), mixing skidding and steering throughout the turn. Then, as has been said, go into the bumps and start by traversing, absorbing several bumps one at a time as you cross the slope. Then add in a turn and repeat. I'm quite sure that at the level I ski bumps (which I sometimes refer to as the old lady style - ie. gently) the ski doesn't make a huge difference. You just want a ski you're comfortable on.

I have been practicing outside the bumps, for about 6 years. I've been stuck at level 7/8 for a while. Always afraid of the bumps. I'm a very confident skier outside of them. I'd say that having these skills mastered outside of the bumps is the only reason that I find myself wanting to ski them now. It's gotten rather boring staying on the groomers all the time.