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Determining lesson levels
- Thread starter santacruz skier
- Start date
surfsnowgirl
Banned
A 40-something skier who is trying to build skills doesn't need a huge resort, either. I've been toying with the idea lately of moving to Vermont, more for family than ski reasons. Paradoxically though, moving to this east-coast skiers' paradise would drastically reduce the amount of time I'd spend on snow, because there's no night skiing. The milder climate in the mid-Atlantic makes night skiing tolerable, and it's widely available. I quite enjoy it, actually. In PA, if I leave campus after my last class of the day, I can easily get in five hours of skiing on weeknight evenings. Or I can catch the first chair on weekends, retire to the lodge to rest and grade papers during the afternoon rush, then ski into the evening as the crowds thin.
Maybe I'll become more geographically restless as I gain skill and experience, but for now, skiing is skiing, and I enjoy the quantity if not the quality of Pocono skiing. Plus, constantly dodging out-of-control teenage "meat torpedoes" keeps you sharp.
I definitely have just as much fun at a smaller resort as I do in Vermont or other places. Your night skiing sounds like a blast and you sound like you have a good life there in PA. Cool you have family at least to visit in VT so you can head up there on breaks and stuff and have somewhere to stay
. I love Vermont, will likely be up there in a couple weeks at my friend's place. I now know it would be hard for me to live in other places because I like having a ton of Vermont or New Hampshire resorts within a 4 hour drive. If anything I'd want to move closer. I went night snowboarding at Montage in PA a few years ago and had a blast. We went to Elk also and had so much fun. We have a few places in CT that have night skiing but I haven't taken advantage of it yet. This winter I have a plan of leaving work by 5 and being up there by 6 for a few hours of skiing. One of the CT places I practically pass on the way up to western Mass for the weekend so I want to stop there for a couple hours of warm up before the weekend. I did call in sick 2 days this past winter to go skiing.
I've never taken a multi day clinic so hope to do that when my schedule allows.
I know I'm definitely taking a private when I go to Banff in February.
I know at my home mountain in western mass the director of our ski school and a few supervisors stand nearby to help anyone that isn't sure where they should place themselves for a lesson.
marzNC
Angel Diva
For me (advanced, over 55), two hour lessons with 1-3 people have worked out well in recent years. At destination ski resorts, the price when split with a friend feels reasonable. When I wasn't in good shape, it was hard to stay in top form for more than a couple hours. When I got tired physically, I was also tired mentally. In any case, I'm only trying to pick up one or two drills or ideas from a lesson for future practice. That's all I naturally retain. Don't think I would retain more going all day.
Most of the improvement in my technique has happened in the last four seasons. Didn't even know what PSIA was in 2011. Have had 3-4 lessons from Walter (PSIA Level 3) at Massanutten, plus 2-4 semi-private lessons with Level 3 instructors out west per season. By the second season with Walter I was starting to understand how to practice more effectively at Massanutten. The third season I took two long ski trips out west, plus had some ski days in the northeast. The additional mileage that season really helped (46 days big mountains, 27 days Mid-Atlantic). However, I don't think it would've made as much difference without the lessons and deliberate practice based on what I'd learned from instructors.
At Massanutten, two hours on the short slopes is enough. Need a break doing something else after that. When I can, doing two lessons in the same week is of much more interest than one 4-hour session. Note that it doesn't take more than 3 min to do a non-stop run on any of the trails at Massanutten. Granted, during a lesson it takes a bit longer.
Everyone is different. I'm simply sharing what worked for me to go from low 7 (2010) to solid 8 (2015) as a visual learner. Much to my surprise I might add. I didn't really expect to become good enough to ski some of the terrain I've come to enjoy at Alta, especially off Wildcat or the High T. Not starting back on the slopes when I was over 50 as an adventurous intermediate who stuck to groomers out west.
Most of the improvement in my technique has happened in the last four seasons. Didn't even know what PSIA was in 2011. Have had 3-4 lessons from Walter (PSIA Level 3) at Massanutten, plus 2-4 semi-private lessons with Level 3 instructors out west per season. By the second season with Walter I was starting to understand how to practice more effectively at Massanutten. The third season I took two long ski trips out west, plus had some ski days in the northeast. The additional mileage that season really helped (46 days big mountains, 27 days Mid-Atlantic). However, I don't think it would've made as much difference without the lessons and deliberate practice based on what I'd learned from instructors.
At Massanutten, two hours on the short slopes is enough. Need a break doing something else after that. When I can, doing two lessons in the same week is of much more interest than one 4-hour session. Note that it doesn't take more than 3 min to do a non-stop run on any of the trails at Massanutten. Granted, during a lesson it takes a bit longer.
Everyone is different. I'm simply sharing what worked for me to go from low 7 (2010) to solid 8 (2015) as a visual learner. Much to my surprise I might add. I didn't really expect to become good enough to ski some of the terrain I've come to enjoy at Alta, especially off Wildcat or the High T. Not starting back on the slopes when I was over 50 as an adventurous intermediate who stuck to groomers out west.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Multi-day clinics can be eye-opening. The special Diva clinic by NASTC in north Tahoe in 2010 was the first time I had lessons from really experienced instructors. While I learned a fair amount, some of what I learned didn't really register until years later when I started investing time and money in taking lessons more regularly. Thinking back, I was probably a high 6 during the clinic. The bonus was that the second and third day we were getting powder lessons during/after a power storm that dropped a couple feet of snow. Nice to have a couple more ski days after the clinic was over. I was even willing to ski trees at Northstar and bump runs at Mt. Rose with my ski buddy. Helped a lot during the spring break trip to Alta to end the season.
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santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Trees @ Northstar and bump runs at Mt Rose are so much fun... Skied a lot of that this year. And hit Mt Rose for the first time in a few years and was empty and lapping it on the tree runs and some steep black groomers. Even tried a chute which was okay but the entry was a bit intimidating....Also @marzNC was Lookout Mtn at Northstar open when you were in Tahoe in 2010? Most runs are rated single black but are more like double black in some places and the one blue run would be a black in other resorts but is groomed so doable for even adventurous intermediates. Many years ago we used to do cat skiing at Northstar on Lookout Mtn before it was open... I can't remember when it opened.... Maybe around 2010 or 2011. Northstar and Heavenly are my home mountains (5 hrs away) b/c have timeshare at Heavenly and BF has family house at Northstar. The price of lessons is ridiculous, but did do a womens clinic at Kirkwood and Eva Twardokens (olympian) was the instructor and I got put in her group... We had to demonstrate our skills on a blue run and I got put in the highest group, but believe me, at that time didn't belong there.... I must have had a good run in the demonstration for the classifications.... Lucked out I guess b/c not the best in the group - probably the worst...
marzNC
Angel Diva
Got curious . . . looks like Homewood and Diamond Peak allow semi-private lessons for up to 5 or 6 people. Full day at Diamond Peak for $600 for up to 6. Full day at Homewood for $499 for up to 5. Homewood allows the group to make use of the instructor's time for whatever subgroups or session lengths that make the most sense. So could have a subgroup in the morning who are intermediates, and then the advanced skiers in the group could work with the instructor in the afternoon.
marzNC
Angel Diva
Yes, Lookout Mtn was open in 2010. Couldn't cover too much of Northstar since we only skied there one day.
Heavenly was where I first demo'd "shaped skis" back in 2000. Groomers only back then. Long before I considered the idea of taking lessons and skiing off-piste terrain.
How long was the clinic? How big was the group?
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Good to know.. Haven't been to Homewood in years but really a fun place for a smaller mountain. Also Diamond Peak in good snow years is really nice with lovely views. Basically learned to ski there in my 20's. Problem is getting 6 people to take a lesson...
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
just realized you said up to 6 people..
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Think clinic was half day and there were about 4 individual groups of about 6 in a group.
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Eva Twardokens made us ski "the wall" at kirkwood with loose boots and no poles for a drill. And it wasn't pretty, believe me.
marzNC
Angel Diva
For a pre-arranged semi-private lesson, I've done it with one or two friends at the most. For the NASTC clinic, I was in a group of 4. I think that's the most I would want for a semi-private lesson. But even with only a second person, the price difference is significant.
Personally I like having another student around in order to not be the focus of the instructor the entire lesson. Never really a problem when I've had a 1-1 private, but definitely feel a little more stressed if I don't know the instructor well.
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
You're convincing me I need a lesson. Think Eva Twardokens group was the last time I had a lesson. And I hate to tell you how long ago that was.....
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You know how I feel about lessons =)
santacruz skier
Angel Diva
Yeah and I got so much out of your lesson posts !
W8N2SKI
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
One of the best multi-day lessons I ever had was at Lake Louise. We had the same instructor for 4 days and skied stuff I never would've done on my own or even w/a buddy. Good lessons push at those invisible walls I've built around myself and even knock them down sometimes.
I recall that the price was very reasonable, but it was years ago. I know I signed up for it at the ski desk in the Banff Springs Hotel.
I recall that the price was very reasonable, but it was years ago. I know I signed up for it at the ski desk in the Banff Springs Hotel.
marzNC
Angel Diva
When I started skiing more out west after 2009, even though I was pretty weak off-piste, I wasn't ready to pay for lessons for myself. Knew enough to get down most western blacks but it wasn't pretty and meant stopping a lot. Note that I paid for ski school for my daughter at Massanutten and Alta (spring break) without hesitation. So she was Level 7 at Alta Ski School when she was 10 and Level 8 when she was 12. But after knee rehab in Summer 2012 (not a skiing injury), I decided that investing in lessons and improving technique made more sense for me than getting a knee brace. Also started ski conditioning on a year round basis. Made a big difference that I was doing the trips out west with ski buddies who were better skiers but also quite willing to be a sweeper on occasion for what I call "adventure" runs.
First time I got my ski buddy Bill to join me for a lesson was at JH in 2014. He was an advanced skier skiing Aspen every weekend during high school. Never had a lesson as an adult. Ski buddy JC learned as an adult but hadn't had high level lessons after becoming an advanced skier. Fair to say that after the lesson with @snoWYmonkey (Level 3), it's been relatively easy to talk them into doing semi-private lessons on later trips to SLC (Snowbasin, Alta). Both ski harder terrain then they did before with less effort. Learn a lot observing Bill in lessons.
In my coper thread, I learned that other copers (no ACL, no surgery, no instability after rehab) who were advanced skiers also started investing in lessons after knee rehab. My comments about the JH lesson are here.
Kimmyt
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
When I moved out west and ski bummed for a season at Breck I did the lesson plan that @bounceswoosh participates in. I started as level 8 and ended as level 9 (but barely). I preferred to ski 1-2 times a week with the lesson group and then the rest of the time myself so I could just ski and learn the feel of the new skills I was incorporating. I have also taken a few higher level ski clinics, but it's been a few years since I took a lesson and I know I'm due. I'm enjoying just feeling my skiing, but I plan on trying to do another one in a year or so. As a level 9 ish skier, when I worked a season at Copper, I got free lessons. Unfortunately, I only found my way into one for the season, and it was a level 6 lesson. Despite this, I still learned quite a bit. We focused on carving which is something I have largely ignored since I preferred to focus on skiing off piste. The lesson on carving basics really helped my skiing in more aggressive off piste terrain.
My opinion is that for a higher level skier, lessons can still be very beneficial. I prefer to have plenty of time between lessons to ski by myself between lessons to incorporate what I've learned and just feel the skiing.
My opinion is that for a higher level skier, lessons can still be very beneficial. I prefer to have plenty of time between lessons to ski by myself between lessons to incorporate what I've learned and just feel the skiing.
tinymoose
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is me. While I like taking lessons and try to take at least a few a year, I have to have plenty of time to just ski. Otherwise, it's like being inundated with so much information with no time to really try to incorporate it.
WaterGirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I found the opposite. The first "lesson" I took after returning to skiing was with two other women in and "intermediate/advanced" group lesson at Mammoth (self-determined level). I had returned to skiing after a long break and had been snowboarding previously as well, needed to catch up on new ski technology. Local mountains had only limited rentals, first trip back to Mammoth did some demoing, on mountain demo shop employee suggested I take a lesson to maybe help narrow down a ski that would make me happy. I was with two other women, one whom freaked out after getting off a chair on an easy blue. Spent the entire lesson getting her to be able to link some turns. Neither woman were intermediate/ advanced, they both over-rated themselves. I didn't know until I reloaded my pass for the next day that Mammoth has policy that if you are not 100% happy with your lesson they will give you another one for free. I mentioned not having the best lesson and was given a private the next day.
I would do that! I have no desire to take a 3 hour lesson for $180, I have looked at some steeps clinics but didn't work w/ my schedule.
(It seems the women's clinics always incorporate yoga and wine or some other non skiing activity which I don't want to pay for).
I also looked at Mammoths 10 week program, but that only works if you can get a group of 4 that are the same level and have the same goals. I may try the 10 week this year which is 3 hours one weekend day with same instructor and skiers (comes out to $60 for the 3 hours). Thats the cheapest lesson option for upper level skiing.
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