Wide or Narrow Skis and the American Skier

[tinymoose]

I feel like the conversation about ski width is as relative as the conversation about what constitutes a carved or skidded turn, or are we the average skier. It's all on a spectrum and relative to what you're comparing it to. For example, a ski in the 80s is going to be proportionally wider for me and give me more float than it will a larger person. When we're talking about are we average/typical skiers in relation to the advice in the video, again what are we comparing? I'm perfectly average and pedestrian compared to World Cup skiers, or even former non-WC racers, but am I better than maybe your average weekend warrior skidding around the hill? Sure, maybe?

I personally found this video a bit weird b/c in one breath they were saying Europeans ski 80 and below b/c groomers etc, and then are like well I'd put most women on a ski in the 80s. So which is it? Narrower to work on carving/skill or wider for an all-purpose tool (or maybe it's b/c I personally don't consider anything in the 80s "narrow").

 

[MissySki]

I feel like the conversation about ski width is as relative as the conversation about what constitutes a carved or skidded turn, or are we the average skier. It's all on a spectrum and relative to what you're comparing it to. For example, a ski in the 80s is going to be proportionally wider for me and give me more float than it will a larger person. When we're talking about are we average/typical skiers in relation to the advice in the video, again what we are comparing? I'm perfectly average and pedestrian compared to World Cup skiers, or even former non-WC racers, but am I better than maybe your average weekend warrior skidding around the hill? Sure, maybe?

I personally found this video a bit weird b/c in one breath they were saying Europeans ski 80 and below b/c groomers etc, and then are like well I'd put most women on a ski in the 80s. So which is it? Narrower to work on carving/skill or wider for an all-purpose tool (or maybe it's b/c I personally don't consider anything in the 80s "narrow").

Yes, I got stuck on that too when watching and found myself talking back to the video lol.. Europeans are mostly on piste skiers so they ski x width ski. Then you are comparing a whole different segment in the US where many more ski off piste and therefore want a ski they feel “can do it all” pretty well. Which is often a little wider than the average for those who truly do not venture off piste. There are too many variables with how it was discussed and not being broken down in a systematic way. Is it the person’s size, is it the terrain, is it skill level.. what is the determiner for how we are saying this should be applied?

Remember when we took the powder lesson at Snowmass? Our instructor was on a pretty narrow ski and we had like 2 feet of snow. He discussed how he was skiing under it.. he also mentioned that he wouldn’t likely make the same decision in the East where there are more rocks and stumps and roots strewn about under the snow. He would have wanted some more float here, I believe also because the snow is heavier. There are so many variables and preferences. I think part of the fun of powder skiing is the weightless floaty feel, so why wouldn’t I want a ski that is wide enough to give me some float.. just because you can doesn’t always mean you prefer to or want to.

 

[tinymoose]

I guess it all goes back to your goals/motivations. Like that instructor at Snowmass on 70-something skis in powder, or watching the racer kids at the local hills zip around in bumps or off-piste on their race skis. Part of the reason I started race clinic years ago and got race skis, was b/c I realized that a lot of my issues in skiing were me, not the gear, and I've yet to meet a former racer that's not a badass skier. To quote TS, "It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me." lol I've tried to force myself to use my SLs more often, even if it's a struggle at times in certain conditions, b/c I feel like it forces me to be better/more intentional/less lazy about my technique? That being said, sometimes I take out my "all-mountain" skis if I'm tired and don't feel like having to be "on" all day. It's definitely going to be hard for me to not default to my Factions this coming season b/c they just make everything so easy.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

My casual observations comparing Europe to the US is that, and of course I am generaliz8ng, the average, groomer only skiers, in the US will be skiing on wider skis. Not a right or wrong, just an o ser actions of what people do. More ungroomed skiers in the US for certain but just looking at those that don't ski u groomed the video statement was true.

 

[MissySki]

My casual observations comparing Europe to the US is that, and of course I am generaliz8ng, the average, groomer only skiers, in the US will be skiing on wider skis. Not a right or wrong, just an o ser actions of what people do. More ungroomed skiers in the US for certain but just looking at those that don't ski u groomed the video statement was true.

How wide are we talking out of curiosity?

 

[Mermimi]

As a Skier in the West, I agree with Deb. I demoed some fat skis over the past few years and they just weren't hitting it for me - my skills and technique could be a contributing factor! However, I have my perfect (for now) two ski quiver: Moment Sierras at 98mm and Stockli Montero AX at 80 mm. Both skis are super fun all over the mountain in most conditions but if its snowing, the Moments come to out to play.

 

[elemmac]

My casual observations comparing Europe to the US is that, and of course I am generaliz8ng, the average, groomer only skiers, in the US will be skiing on wider skis.

I wonder how much of this has to do with the number of [average, groomer only] people that rent skis in Europe vs. the US. From what I can tell from my limited time skiing in Europe is that everything is structured around a "ski week holiday". I think there's more people that go on holiday for extended trips, rather than weekenders and day trippers, like the US.

When renting, you can choose a ski for the conditions that you are actually experiencing. Whereas when you buy a ski you're buying for the conditions you will ski a lot, the conditions that you hope to be skiing a lot, and for your personal objectives of skiing over the season...not just the objectives for the week.

 

[AJM]

I prefer a ski in the mid to high 80's over here in NZ as they seem to be the sweet spot for most of the conditions we get. My older Sheeva 9's (92mm) were great and I loved them but @Jilly (I think) did mention they were bouncing around on the hardpack in a video I posted a couple of years ago and also due to my new normal knees they are now too wide for me to ski comfortably.
The 85's I skied last season seemed to manage pretty much everything. I am looking at a higher performance carver for a training camp next season but apart from that I cant see me wanting to ski anything over say 88mm.
Even Hubby has gone narrower over the last season or so, he's on a 96 at the moment whereas he used to ski a 102 and may go narrower again with his next pair.

 

[MissySki]

I guess it all goes back to your goals/motivations. Like that instructor at Snowmass on 70-something skis in powder, or watching the racer kids at the local hills zip around in bumps or off-piste on their race skis. Part of the reason I started race clinic years ago and got race skis, was b/c I realized that a lot of my issues in skiing were me, not the gear, and I've yet to meet a former racer that's not a badass skier. To quote TS, "It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me." lol I've tried to force myself to use my SLs more often, even if it's a struggle at times in certain conditions, b/c I feel like it forces me to be better/more intentional/less lazy about my technique? That being said, sometimes I take out my "all-mountain" skis if I'm tired and don't feel like having to be "on" all day. It's definitely going to be hard for me to not default to my Factions this coming season b/c they just make everything so easy.

A few things that stuck out to me here:

1) Sure racer kids go all over with their race skis.. but a) they are kids so they are likely way better skiers than we can ever hope to be, have no fear, and are like gumby lol and b) they didn’t pay for those skis! I would never take a very expensive carving specific skis like the Laser MX ($1350!) off piste in the East.. hello rocks.. Besides the cringe of that aspect of it, you would need to be continually tuning them for the true amazing performance on piste if you are doing that. Otherwise, what’s the point? And I’m not realistically going to do that.

2) Ex racers are usually (not always I’m sure) now adult skiers who have skied their whole lives and put enormous time and energy into it to ski at a very high level training as a child and beyond. I can’t compare myself to those people, as my skiing will never achieve the same. It’s almost impossible I think to recreate what they grew up doing as an adult learner/improver. How do you ever catch up to someone who skiing is like walking to? Just never going to happen no matter how much we ski on skinny skis or run gates unfortunately. Or I’ll speak for just myself and say there is no way I’ll ever be as comfortable on skis as someone who learned to walk on skis essentially.

3) While amazing that you want to work on your skiing and use skis where you feel it has been advantageous to have to be “on” and challenged versus just skiing around on skis that allow you to be more relaxed.. that is a high bar I wouldn’t attribute to the majority of skiers. Think about how many people ski like 10 days per season or less, which is a huge chunk of skiers I imagine.. how many of those people are going to want to do the work for whatever benefit that gives them? Don’t we also have a thread here somewhere about how it’s okay not to strive for greatness in one’s hobbies, including skiing? While my personality can’t relate to that, because I’m always very goal oriented and will try forever even if I can’t get there.. there were many people even on this site of very dedicated skiers who were like no I just have no interest in being able to do x y or z on skis etc. I imagine to the masses that is exponentially higher for most skiers. They aren’t trying to reach some higher level, they are happy with what they are doing sliding on snow.. and that’s fine too of course. It’s not a failing to just ski on a ski you enjoy. And isn’t the great thing about technological advanced the fact that they make things easier? Otherwise we’d still all be on super long, straight, skinny skis.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

How wide are we talking out of curiosity?

70 to 80 range. So many reasons for the difference, but the difference is real.

 

[tinymoose]

I hope you didn't think I was implying everyone should do it my way? I was just sharing my thought process and why I've made the choices I have with my gear. I also don't have the advantage of location, time off work, or money that many of you have to ski outside PA, so I've got to work with what I have available here, which tbh isn't a lot. I know I'll never come close to those racer kids or ex-racers, but if it improves my skiing even a little, for me that's worth it.

Also, fwiw, my jr SLs were a lot less than $1,350, so while I don't want to purposely abuse them, I'm also not pressed about them getting damaged anymore than other skis I've owned. Their price point wasn't that dissimilar from most of my other skis. So maybe pricier for kids skis, but nothing close to the premium brands.

 

[MissySki]

70 to 80 range. So many reasons for the difference, but the difference is real.

In Europe?

And then I wonder what the sort of norm is here. Though that will also vary greatly by region. I feel like I would most often expect see 80s to mid 90s in general on a random day.. ? There are outliers in both directions of course.. but I am definitely going to pay attention this weekend in line to see if that feels right lol.

 

[MissySki]

I hope you didn't think I was implying everyone should do it my way? I was just sharing my thought process and why I've made the choices I have with my gear. I also don't have the advantage of location, time off work, or money that many of you have to ski outside PA, so I've got to work with what I have available here, which tbh isn't a lot. I know I'll never come close to those racer kids or ex-racers, but if it improves my skiing even a little, for me that's worth it.

Also, fwiw, my jr SLs were a lot less than $1,350, so while I don't want to purposely abuse them, I'm also not pressed about them getting damaged anymore than other skis I've owned. Their price point wasn't that dissimilar from most of my other skis. So maybe pricier for kids skis, but nothing close to the premium brands.

Oh no, not at all. I was just trying to extrapolate how you are an awesome outlier, but wouldn’t expect that work ethic to hold true in expectations for like 95% of the general ski population. And the who is the toughest part of this question, because most of us don’t fit into that general population of skiers because we are addicted and want to spend as much time and energy as possible on developing sound technique, one way or another. When I watch a clip from a very influential skier like Deb and someone who purchases for a major ski shop.. or did.. I am trying to figure out who we are trying to fit in this box we are discussing. It sounds like the person who doesn’t know much yet. The person who is influenced by store employees for what skis to buy versus knowing/demoing for themselves, the person who maybe doesn’t ski very much otherwise they’d be more likely to have those things figured out already? The more random people I talk to about skiing, like starting a new job recently with a lot of people who ski, I am very struck by how different the average skier looks at things than we all do.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

In Europe?

And then I wonder what the sort of norm is here. Though that will also vary greatly by region. I feel like I would most often expect see 80s to mid 90s in general on a random day.. ? There are outliers in both directions of course.. but I am definitely going to pay attention this weekend in line to see if that feels right lol.

Yes, france and sweden some.

 

[NewEnglandSkier]

I've been skiing one of my all mountain skis (86 underfoot) so far this season out of necessity (got new boots and didn't adjust my old carving skis bindings to the new boots in case new boots were disaster and need to revert to old boots). Anyway, of where I ski on a weekly basis I really miss the narrow carving ski, as the local hill has no off-piste terrain---it's all groomed to within an inch of its life. So for that mountain, for me a narrow ski (to me 76 or under is what I consider narrow) makes the most sense----however when I travel elsewhere and ski in VT then I want to ski more bumps or little glades or ski the ungroomed off the edge of trails then I appreciate something a bit wider. All depends on the conditions one skis and personal goals I think.

 

[Nedgirl]

I see some things that make sense out of the video, but I also think a lot of factors tie into this. I work at Winter Park, and see a lot of tourists who only come skiing once a year and typically ski the groomers. I agree that they would be better served on a narrower ski to promote easier tipping and edging. I also think for someone who primarily skis midwest or eastern man-made snow with limited powder or off-piste terrain, they should probably be skiing a narrower ski. I would say 80-85, not necessarily 70 waist.

For myself, when I am free skiing, I typically ski trees and bumps, and a lot of time it is powder or chopped up crud. I do prefer something more in the 90 - 100 range for that. I will also say a lot depends on the ski itself. I had a pair of Head Great Joys that were 98 waist, but carved pretty darn good on the groomers for such a wide ski. I am currently skiing on Elan Ripsticks 94 waist and am really liking them for most conditions.

Finally, here's a funny story. I have a pair of Elan Wildcat CX with 82 waist. They are in great shape. I bought them a couple of years ago and just found I'm not using them enough, so have been trying to sell them. Here in Colorado, I can't get a buyer for them. Everyone wants an all mountain ski that is wider.

 

[leia1979]

I got a pair of Elan Wildcat 76 that I just tried for the first time today. As much as we say “date your skis,” finding anything narrow to try here (California) is very difficult unless it’s a beginner rental. I found them really easy to turn, even through they’re a little longer than I’ve had before. Only one day on them so far, but I really like them. I’ll still break out my Wild Belle 84 for slush or powder (and might demo wider out of curiosity). But for firmer conditions, I’m enjoying the narrower ski.

 

[Knitjenious]

I got a pair of Elan Wildcat 76 that I just tried for the first time today. As much as we say “date your skis,” finding anything narrow to try here (California) is very difficult unless it’s a beginner rental. I found them really easy to turn, even through they’re a little longer than I’ve had before. Only one day on them so far, but I really like them. I’ll still break out my Wild Belle 84 for slush or powder (and might demo wider out of curiosity). But for firmer conditions, I’m enjoying the narrower ski.

I demoed the Wildcat 76 last year and really liked them, too. I hope they will be a great ski for you!

 

[mintzcole]

I got a pair of Elan Wildcat 76 that I just tried for the first time today. As much as we say “date your skis,” finding anything narrow to try here (California) is very difficult unless it’s a beginner rental. I found them really easy to turn, even through they’re a little longer than I’ve had before. Only one day on them so far, but I really like them. I’ll still break out my Wild Belle 84 for slush or powder (and might demo wider out of curiosity). But for firmer conditions, I’m enjoying the narrower ski.

I bought these skis last year and loved them. I still love them but I think I might have outgrown them though. I have 144’s and after demoing skis this past weekend I’m convinced they’re too short. They are awesome in hard back but get stuck in soft snow. I may just need to add a second ski to my quiver!

 

[Knitjenious]

I bought these skis last year and loved them. I still love them but I think I might have outgrown them though. I have 144’s and after demoing skis this past weekend I’m convinced they’re too short. They are awesome in hard back but get stuck in soft snow. I may just need to add a second ski to my quiver!

I ended up going with the Ripstick 88 for my one-ski quiver. So if you liked the Wildcat 76, you might also like the Ripstick! I am still dreaming of adding a Wildcat 76 or its brother ski the Wingman 78 (because I am a heavier and medium-tall skier) to my quiver for icier days.