deannatoby
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We talk often about skis that are too advanced and stiff. What's it feel like if they're too soft?
-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
What does a ski feel like if it's too soft for you?
- Thread starter deannatoby
- Start date
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
Too soft - not really that big of a factor for lightweights like you and I. However, if considering just flex and a very soft flex, the Trifecta comes into play: edging, steering, pressure control. A too-soft ski definitely will over-steer and bend too significantly at your pressure signal. Edging might well be a wash-out. The operative word that comes to mind here is....”noodle?”
bounceswoosh
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Too soft = all flex, no pop. A stiffer ski will be more assertive in maintaining its shape - kind of like adjusting rebound on a mountain bike fork?
deannatoby
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
How would you describe the soft "flex" and "noodle" to a skier who is just learning about skis?
I ask this question because after two years of frustration with my old skis, which started out with me thinking I needed stiffer ones, then me thinking I needed softer ones, I finally discovered I did need stiffer ones. I knew soft skis would flex too much but I didn't know how to translate that into a feeling when skiing.
I think my skis were too soft because at the ends of turns I felt frozen in position, unless I was on slow easy terrain. THought it was me till I felt a better ski pop me into transition. When I would try to get on edges on any decent steep terrain it was as if the skis had no edge, even though the edges were kept sharp. I didn't know what it felt like to have a "noodle" but I knew my skis and I weren't communicating. Now that I'm on a stiffer ski, and have skied other stiff skis, all I an assume is that feeling coming out of a turn and not edging was a ski that was too soft and wouldn't respond to what I was asking it to do.
There's a lot of discussion on stiff skis on the forum, but not many illustrations for a new skier of what softness really feels like when you ski. One reason I thought maybe I needed softer skis was because I wondered if the ski's lack of response was because I wasn't flexing it. Turns out that wasn't the case. It was hard to decipher everything. It's just hard for new skiers to understand what these terms mean. And, honestly, I'm still a little baffled as to why my old skis were so bad for me! They were supposed to be a good intermediate ski (2009 Head Cool Ones), not a beginner ski.
I ask this question because after two years of frustration with my old skis, which started out with me thinking I needed stiffer ones, then me thinking I needed softer ones, I finally discovered I did need stiffer ones. I knew soft skis would flex too much but I didn't know how to translate that into a feeling when skiing.
I think my skis were too soft because at the ends of turns I felt frozen in position, unless I was on slow easy terrain. THought it was me till I felt a better ski pop me into transition. When I would try to get on edges on any decent steep terrain it was as if the skis had no edge, even though the edges were kept sharp. I didn't know what it felt like to have a "noodle" but I knew my skis and I weren't communicating. Now that I'm on a stiffer ski, and have skied other stiff skis, all I an assume is that feeling coming out of a turn and not edging was a ski that was too soft and wouldn't respond to what I was asking it to do.
There's a lot of discussion on stiff skis on the forum, but not many illustrations for a new skier of what softness really feels like when you ski. One reason I thought maybe I needed softer skis was because I wondered if the ski's lack of response was because I wasn't flexing it. Turns out that wasn't the case. It was hard to decipher everything. It's just hard for new skiers to understand what these terms mean. And, honestly, I'm still a little baffled as to why my old skis were so bad for me! They were supposed to be a good intermediate ski (2009 Head Cool Ones), not a beginner ski.
I think of soft skis as being sloppy. They don't turn where you want they to (one tip may engage at x point and the other after hitting a little bumplet engages at y), you can't get or hold a high edge angle without the ski torsionally flexing, they bounce around at speed. But I am not sure any of those things would be noticeable to a newer skier. The drawback for a new skier is that they don't provide great feedback and they are imprecise, two characteristics that are bad for any learning. I like stiff skis and often don't like some popular skis because I find them sloppy. But stiff skis have their own down sides too especially for newer skiers and bump lovers.
Tammy
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm still struggling a little with the answer to this question myself.
As my skills progressed I was able to ski a stiffer ski. Now, I can feel the softness on certain skis if I feel like I'm overpowering them as I turn. Some softer skis I've demoed or owned start to feel sluggish and mushy in the tips if I put too much pressure into my turn.
MSL's description of a "noodle" resonates with me as I ended up demoing a beginner ski earlier this season (The guy in the rental shop thought it was an intermediate to advanced ski and was incorrect). That ski was so soft that any kind of movement I made to carve or even gently tip the ski to get it on edge made me wobble and skid.
As my skills progressed I was able to ski a stiffer ski. Now, I can feel the softness on certain skis if I feel like I'm overpowering them as I turn. Some softer skis I've demoed or owned start to feel sluggish and mushy in the tips if I put too much pressure into my turn.
MSL's description of a "noodle" resonates with me as I ended up demoing a beginner ski earlier this season (The guy in the rental shop thought it was an intermediate to advanced ski and was incorrect). That ski was so soft that any kind of movement I made to carve or even gently tip the ski to get it on edge made me wobble and skid.
novium
Certified Ski Diva
Wobbly is a good word for it, I think. I've got a pair of skis that I love because they're great in the cement, and manageable in the powder, but on hardpack conditions when you pick up speed, they kind of....chatter. Sometimes it feels to me a little bit like they're bucking, just a little. The saving grace is that they actually hold an edge a lot better than it seems, but still, I pull out my rock skis on those days, because they're a lot stiffer. (Though they're awful in anything cut up or not groomed). You can definitely feel the difference.
here's my funny story of skiing on too-soft skis. When I finally decided to go from straight stiff racing skis, I had no idea what I was doing, so I bought a pair of Roxy skis super-cheap online that were described as being advanced carving skis. (turns out they weren't). They were so soft that every time I did a hockey stop, I fell over. It was as if they had springs inside them. I'd come down fast, turn sideways in an attempt to stop, lurch/vibrate, and fall over. They also chattered at high speeds and wobbled when I tried to go straight. I sold them!
Celestron2000
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My beginner skis were wonderful for helping me learn my first year on skis. I really wished I had bought sooner. The soft flex worked well at the slow speeds I was traveling at and helped to make early carving feel natural. I think there really is a place for them.
I also think that a lot of women tend to rate thier skills more conservatively, compared to how skis are rated for skills.
After my first year, I realized that I had outgrown my beginner skis because they felt wobbly at the speeds I now wanted to travel at. I demoed and ended up buying an "advanced" ski eventhough I was still only intermediate, but based on the demo I was able to make the ski carve short radius turns, etc...
I'm not sure there is much difference between beginner skis and a lot of the "intermediate" skis on the market...
But I do think that the mark of a good beginner ski is that they help you to not need them for very long.
I also think that a lot of women tend to rate thier skills more conservatively, compared to how skis are rated for skills.
After my first year, I realized that I had outgrown my beginner skis because they felt wobbly at the speeds I now wanted to travel at. I demoed and ended up buying an "advanced" ski eventhough I was still only intermediate, but based on the demo I was able to make the ski carve short radius turns, etc...
I'm not sure there is much difference between beginner skis and a lot of the "intermediate" skis on the market...
But I do think that the mark of a good beginner ski is that they help you to not need them for very long.
deannatoby
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Same here. It wasn't until later in my second year of skiing, many days on the hill, and some seriously needed lessons, that I began to notice issues. Maybe it was just a matter of outgrowing them sooner than I had thought. I'm sure I won't outgrow my new ones!
snow addict
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I skied 4 seasons (about 120 days) on my beginner skis. I don't know at which point I outgrew them, but I decided to change when I decided it was time to ski powder rather than tumble through it which I did first 4 years
So I bought Scott Mayas and went 10 cm longer and towards the end of the same season I bought Auras. I didn't find them too stiff at all - they are definitely softer than my Head Titans. But maybe I just prefer skis on a stiffer side. It's hard to tell, maybe with mileage stiffness stops being an issue and skiers actually start getting the benefits of stiffer boards underfoot.
So I bought Scott Mayas and went 10 cm longer and towards the end of the same season I bought Auras. I didn't find them too stiff at all - they are definitely softer than my Head Titans. But maybe I just prefer skis on a stiffer side. It's hard to tell, maybe with mileage stiffness stops being an issue and skiers actually start getting the benefits of stiffer boards underfoot.
bitoffluff
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I once rented a pair of skis and they ony had soft ones. Like you I didnt really know what that meant then, so I took them out. I turned like a normally would and carved a perfect arc of radius of a few metres and couldnt release the turn as there ws no rebound - I nearly knocked over a group of my friends skiing just behind me. As there wasnt an accident, it was hilarious! If that happns, they are definitely too soft, but that is an extreme. Even today I am not sure I coud recgnise one that was just a bit soft. But one of the posters above said somthing that rang a bell- no rebound / ping between turns.
mahgnillig
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I discovered that the skis I learned on were not good for going fast... I'm not sure whether it was the softness or the length that was the major cause of the problems, though I suspect it was a combination of the two. I think the best way for a person to tell whether there is something wrong with their skis (too short, too long, too stiff, too soft etc.) is to try other skis and compare the differences. My hubby is still a beginner (just graduated to doing blue runs), but he's interested in doing a demo day for this reason. It's not that he doesn't like his skis, he just wants to compare them to others and see if he likes longer/shorter/wider/rockered etc. better.
Inoffensive Nickname
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have been thinking I'm ready for stiffer skis myself. I got new boots this year, so I can't afford new skis until next season (or maybe I should wait 2 years and pay for a decent fitting on the new boots next season). At Eldora over Christmas, I demoed a pair of Volkl Charisma 160s. Although they felt heavy, I was surprised at how well I skiied (aside from the quad burn due to the heel lifts in my new boots), but was worried they would be too stiff for Midwestern crud. I researched my aftermarket MC Sports brand K2 Magic Luvs 156 and I believe they are a beginner's model, in spite of the salesman telling me they were intermediate. They feel chattery with speed, on ice or fluff and I do feel like I'm having a hard time "gripping" the hill. 99% of my skiing will be on-piste, Midwestern crud, so I'm not sure that demoing skis in Colorado will be much help. It was just easier to rent, since we drove out over Christmas, and we figured it would be fun to demo something fancy. Good luck in your quest.
Liquid Yellow
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I finally realised I needed to replace my old Head carvers when they simply would not grip hard snow, even when freshly tuned. They were so soft, only the bit underneath my boots had any pressure on the edges!
They also flapped around like flippers when I tried to schuss. The only small advantage was that they were easy to turn, but they really were noodles.
They also flapped around like flippers when I tried to schuss. The only small advantage was that they were easy to turn, but they really were noodles.
deannatoby
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Inoffensive nickname, see my review on the Dynastar Edens to see how much I liked the Charisma, a GREAT ski in mu opinion! Liquid Yellow, you were more aware than me to realize the ski itself was keeping them from gripping. My edges were kept freshly sharp--I would tune them with my kids' racer skis, and my tunes were approved by coaches--and I still had no edge grip. I wrongly began to think, however, that it was because I didn't know how to flex and engage edges instead of the skis being too soft.
Liquid Yellow
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Well, they were basically rubbish haha!
