What am I doing wrong??

[EShef]

The ski season is about to start for me this weekend. (Yes, I'm very excited!!)
I'd really like to get rid of a bad habit, but I don't know how. I ski with my tips wider than my tails while doing a turn. Not sure why, but not sure how to fix it. Can anyone give my some pointers??

I've included some pictures from two seasons ago that show what I mean.

Thanks Divas!!

 

[SkiBam]

Hi. Where near Ottawa are you? Do you ever ski at Tremblant? We need to get an eastern Ontario/Quebec diva group together some time.

Re your question, I'm guessing it might be that you're weighting the inside (uphill) ski too much. It's hard to tell from still photos, but it looks like you're banking (leaning) a bit too much to the inside of the turn. Try, as you start your turn, to get more weight onto the new outside ski, and to get your upper body over that outside ski. One exercise to try is, as you start the new turn, lift the tail of the new inside ski. This will help weight the outside ski more and, by lifting the tail and not the whole ski, help get your weight centred over your feet. I've actually been working on this same thing as I noticed in a video that my tips had a tendency to diverge - just like yours. And when I started to pay attention to this, I realized I was way too much on the inside ski.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Lots of snow coming off the downhill outside edge in #4. Bit of a scrub/skid going on? Hard to tell without seeing the actual turn radius. Agree w/above, though.

 

[evaino]

I agree with what was said above. Another way to think about it is that your inside ski is guiding the turn, but your outside ski is driving it. I don't see that driving happening. In fact I think it's the second pic where the outside ski is way behind.

Lifting the tail of the inside ski should help, but as you do so, be sure that you are turning your outside ski.

If you find that lifting your inside tail results in a wider turn, then I would suggest you try some javelin turns. This should be done on fairly easy terrain (are those pics at Camp Fortune? if so - try javelin turns midway down marshall on the skiers left or on pee-wee - after the hump on Clifford). start to ski, but as you do so, lift your inside ski and hold it so that your ski tip points downhill. The balance required for this should force you into a carved turn. Link a bunch of these together, and then keep skiing but stop lifting the ski - try to continue to use that turning motion though. It should be a combination of rolling your foot and a rotation of the femur inside the hip joint.

Pic 3 shows a bit of a wash which I think is compensation for that ski not being involved in the turn earlier.


Elsbeth

 

[EShef]

Thanks Divas!!

I'm going to try some of those tips. I'm very familiar with the javelin turns - I actually think lifting my inside ski is part of my problem because sometime I feel like I'm skating into my next turn. I'll try just lifting the tail rather than the whole ski.

And SkiBam: I'm actually in Arnprior so I mostly ski either at Pakenham with my young nieces and nephew who are just learning or at Calabogie. I venture out to Camp Fortune and Vorlage every so often and Tremblant at least once a season but always looking for more. I'd definitely by game to meet up with some other local divas!!

 

[Jilly]

EShef - Skimomma 24 is at Pakenham. And I could meet up with you at the Bogie sometime. We need an Eastern Ontario/Ottawa Valley meet up!!

Or Tremblant as for this year - I'm there more.

 

[mountainxtc]

2 possible reasons for diverging tips.

1. you're too far back in the fore-aft plane.
2. you are not establishing a platform on the new outside ski (you are banking into the turn or pushing the outside ski away from you).

from your pics it looks like you are reasonably balanced in the fore-aft plane, well enough, anyway, that this is probably not the source of the problem. have to actually see you ski to be sure.

it is obvious from the 3rd pic that point 2 is your big issue. balancing over the outside ski. people are often taught to put their "weight on the outside ski". I am not a fan of this way of thinking, because more often than not it results in students pushing that ski away from them rather than them balancing over it. they feel pressure on the outside ski so they assume they have it right.

try thinking about it this way. get up right now, and do this in your living room. try to balance on one foot. notice that, if you are lifting your left foot and your upper body is tipped to the left, it's impossible to balance, you topple over to the left. if you are standing normally, with your upper body centered between your legs (kind of hard to explain this, but imagine an equilateral triangle, with the bottom 2 corners your feet, and the top center point your upper body) and you lift your left foot, you will still topple to the left. Play around to see where you need to be, with your upper body tipped to the right so it is over your right foot to maintain balance on that one leg.

next time you are out, try this standing on a steepish hill, with your skis pointing across the hill. lift the uphill ski. tip your upper body over the downhill ski (laterally, no twisting) so your center of mass is over your base of support (the downhill ski) and you can balance on one foot.

when skiing, if you do not establish this balance over the outside ski early in the turn, you will topple to the inside (you won't fall as your inside foot is on the ground). the outside ski will track straight and you will have no control over it. diverging tips. the end of the turn will be skidded and uncontrolled.

so, the fix. the suggestion of lifting the tail of the inside ski is a good one. leave the tip on the ground so you can maintain your fore-aft balance and avoid throwing yourself into the back seat. lift as early in the turn as you can, thereby keeping the outside ski underneath your body as opposed to pushing it away from you. you will feel a strong, stable platform from which you can increase the edge angle without the ski sliding out from underneath you. do this at slow speed so you cannot "cheat" by using your speed to keep you upright.

this is a lengthy explanation, I hope it makes sense! in summary: instead of banking into the turn or pushing the outside ski away from your body, balance OVER the outside ski as early as possible in the turn, and continue the turn from that strong platform.

enjoy!

 

[EShef]

Awesome! That makes a lot of sense. Thanks so much Mountainxtc!! I really appreciate the explanation. I'm just wondering if I should be concentrating on contracting my oblique side muscles more to focus on my shoulders over my supporting leg or should I focus on keeping my hips over my supporting leg or is it just something I'll feel when I try it the balance excercise on the hill?

Thanks again Divas!


Oh, and Jilly I'd love an East ON/West Que ski day!!
Pakenham is open tonight for their first night ski and all of my students were chomping at the bit to get there! ( me too!)

 

[mountainxtc]

EShef, basically you should have the feeling that if, at any point through the turn (particularly the initiation in your case) you were to lift the tail of your inside ski you would not fall to the inside. the amount of movement you have to make to achieve this is dependent on a lot of factors, e.g. your speed, the pitch of the run, etc. for example, the steeper the run the more you will have to move your upper body to ensure it stays over your outside ski come the end of the turn. same goes for speed, the faster you go, the more you must exaggerate the move. An easy way to think of it is to make sure your shoulders are at the same angle as the hill at the end of the turn. If you are on a steeper hill, your downhill shoulder will need to drop lower to maintain balance over the downhill ski, if that makes sense. Coming back to the initial problem of diverging tips: the move is progressive, you initiate the turn with that outside ski underneath you instead of pushing it away from you and continue to flex over it laterally as much as you need to through the turn. you will feel how much is enough, when you try it it will just make sense.

Try the exercise where you lift the tail of the inside ski right from the start of the turn. The feeling you get when you do that is the feeling you need to maintain when you have both skis on the snow. Start at slow speed. When you get the feeling, play with over and under exaggerating it so you can really zone in on how it feels when it works and when it doesn't. That way you can start to self correct when you feel the problem.

boy, it sure is easier when you can demonstrate!! let me know how it goes....

 

[SkiBam]

boy, it sure is easier when you can demonstrate!! let me know how it goes....

It is indeed easier to demonstrate, but your explanations are excellent, mountainxtc. I've found them most enlightening - and, I want to say welcome to the forum. Sounds like you'll have lots to contribute - great to have a CSIA level 3 on board!

 

[EShef]

I agree SkiBam! Mountainxtc, you're descriptions are awesome! I can totally visualize it.... now I've got to get my sorry butt to the slopes and try it!!

I think I should sign up for a "get-rid-of-bad-habits" lesson with someone like yourself - a woman CSIA 3 or 4. It's been a loooonnng time since I've had a proper tune-up lesson and I'm quite certain it can't hurt!

By the way... I hear Whistler just had "a record number of bluebird days in a row last week". (quoting my friend who was there for 10 days or so). I hope it stays like that for the Olympics!

 

[mountainxtc]

well great, I'm so glad you can visualize it because to tell you the truth I was almost confusing myself writing it all down like that!

if you're ever in whistler you should check out our Roxy Allstar camps, they are weekend women's only ski and snowboard camps, incredible value for 2 days of coaching plus apres food and drinks both days, free gift and prizes from Roxy all included and coached by an awesome group of women. there's only 5 or 6 camps this year due to the olympic blackout period and we already had our 1st of the season last weekend....

lots of sunshine here in the last 2 weeks, and the freezing cold temps that come with it this time of year. definitely not the norm here, but we're back to good old coast mountain clouds now, and topping up our gigantic early season base. pow turns for me tomorrow!!

 

[snowmiser]

A drill I like to use to maintain balance over the outside or downhill ski is to have you place the outside hand on the inside knee at the middle of your turn, and to keep it there until your turn is complete and your ready to switch directions. Be sure to keep your inside hand up and reaching forward to aid in balancing.

 

[Perty]

Not being a ski instructor, you can take this advice with a pinch of salt. I think I do the same thing as you-my downhill hip didn't complete the turn enough (So I was pushing out with my downhill foot) A suggestion made to me by an instructor last season definitely made things feel different-simple and is as follows:-as you come around the turn, push the downhill hip forwards across the slope. I try and do it now, and I feel like the turn is carving much more.

 

[Perty]

I should add to that (having been on the snow these last 3 days), push the outside/downhill hip and thigh/leg forward as you come around the turn.

 

[mountainxtc]

Perty - from the advice you were given by you instructor it sounds like you are too open at the end of the turn - a different problem than EShef. Being too "countered" in the hips and/or upper body will block your ability to complete the turn, often resulting in a downstem (pushing out with the downhill foot) to control speed.

From EShef's pic 2092 it doesn't look like this is a problem for her at all so I wouldn't advise her to try it. Great that it's working for you though!

 

[Jilly]

Oh, and Jilly I'd love an East ON/West Que ski day!!
Pakenham is open tonight for their first night ski and all of my students were chomping at the bit to get there! ( me too!)

I'm at Tremblant right now, but Skimomma24 is at Pakenham!! Do you ski in the Gatineau's or valley? I know some instructors at Edelweiss!

As for a day, later in the month might be good for me at the Bogie!!