Vermont travel restrictions

[ilovepugs]

By the way, I learned something recently that I don’t think has been clearly communicated to the public. Vermont’s 7 day quarantine and test rule is due to the fact there is a 0% chance of detection within the first day of infection and the highest chance of detection (80%) starts at approximately 7 days after the infection was acquired.

 

[Skivt2]

The economy. One of three things is going to happen 1) Everyone goes the Vermont like it’s nothing this winter 2) the quarantine is relaxed 3) the economy will be devastated. Cape Cod welcomed visitors this summer and it was fine. if you look at Vermont’s map it’s not a quarantine county even though it allowed all new Englanders to travel there all summer without quarantine. Vermont is just over the top. Vermont can open up to it’s safer neighbors, save its economy and it will be fine. Seriously. I’ve paid 10k in rent and utilities since the last time have been to my apartment in VT and it’s really starting to piss me off.

 

[ilovepugs]

The state is highly attuned to the importance of tourism dollars. The state is just as attuned to the importance of the health of our communities. The entire state has 25 critical care doctors. The Department of Health is understandably cautious.

I’ve paid 10k in rent and utilities since the last time have been to my apartment in VT and it’s really starting to piss me off.

I’m sorry you’ve felt like that $10k has been spent unnecessarily. It doesn’t sound to me like you are without options. I’m sure your landlord would have been willing to let you out of the lease and happily rented to someone else for significantly more money. The rental market is extremely tight right now.

I will let that speak for itself with respect to the state of our economy.

 

[Skivt2]

Aren’t you empathetic sweetie? And where exactly will we be living in Vermont if we give up our apartment oh wise one? Shall we build an igloo? You know we could have gone there back and forth like so many others since April and broken the rules but we have not. We are not tourists. We are members our our Vermont community. My husband works for the mountain where we live in the winter. We volunteer for local organizations. My husband is in school to train for a position that is in high demand in VT. Paradoxically, that’s the only reason we are not legal VT residents now. I don’t need to be spoken to like a two year old about medical facilities in Vermont as if somehow allowing us to return to our home would cause those facilities to be immediately over run. Soon my husband will be on the front lines at those very VT medical facilities. We have been working to move there permanently in 2 years for the past 5 years. We are not rich. We are trying to get by just like everyone else. We are extremely careful as I have spelled out. Our Ct house is in a very safe low infection area. There is absolutely no reason for us to be shut out of our home In Vermont. The virus restrictions forced us to stay away from our home. When we left On April 1st the hatred In VT towards people with out of state plates was unreal. Cars were being vandalized. There was a big flashing highway sign in Rt 7 saying NY, CT. MA just keep driving. It was not pretty and we basically had to pack up all our food and everything that we could fit in the car and leave in a hurry during a very scary time after living there most nights of the week for 7 months. I will say it again. Vt’s quarantine is Over the top. It extrapolates active cases from sketchy logic and is doing more harm than good as far as it’s New England state neighbors. Broad anti travel rules don’t make sense when applied to every situation. If Vermont does not want short term renters and it’s economy is fine without tourists then fine, shut the hotels and Airbnb’s down, but don’t keep people with full times homes out.

 

[ski diva]

Whoa, there. Let's take a breath, everyone.

Yes, the one-size-fits-all quarantine effort in Vermont has made things difficult. It's been very broad, and maybe it doesn't fit every situation. But consider the circumstances at the time it was put into place. This is a once a lifetime situation (hopefully) and figuring out what to do has been incredibly challenging. Yes, it's not always fair when you put everyone from every state in the same box. Many are bound to get hurt. But coming up with a solution that takes every situation into account isn't exactly workable. I have to admit that as a Vermonter, I was less than thrilled with the arrival of out-of-staters when this thing blew up. As @ilovepugs pointed out, medical care is not a strong suit here -- and she should know, since her husband is a physician. The fear was that these people would arrive, get sick, and either infect locals or take up valuable space in our already limited healthcare system. That said, you can't argue with how well the state has done. So yes, the restrictions may not have been fair for everyone, but they also seem to have worked. I'm really sorry you've had -- and continue to have -- a tough time. I truly appreciate your situation and your willingness to play by the rules (as you pointed out, many do not). But things are evolving all the time. A week or so ago the governor said things might be loosening up. So let's hope for better things ahead.

 

[ilovepugs]

I’ll be honest, I really don’t have a lot of sympathy for someone in @Skivt2’s position. When my husband was a resident, there’s no way we could have contemplated renting a second home. We’ve also been scrupulous about conforming to public health rules because of his job — yes, as one of the state’s 25 critical care docs who’s been on the frontlines since day 1. Using a spouse’s position in public health to argue that the public health rules shouldn’t have to apply to them is just unseemly.

Being in school or training requires sacrifices. Being in a public health profession during a pandemic, infinitely more. Many on this site are well aware of the agony and anxiety that I felt in the early days of the pandemic - worried sick for my husband, who was and continues to be an important contributor to our state’s COVID response. I don’t understand why anyone who’s in a similar position (being married to a frontline worker) would be in favor of regular travel, increasing interstate contacts and contributing to the risk of community spread. There will be another ski season, but there’s only one Mr. Skivt2.

 

[SallyCat]

Winter ski visits will be more problematic than what we've seen this summer. Flu season combined with the need to be inside more often, plus a creeping complacency is all cause for worry. As a first responder who encounters patients in extremely variable and difficult-to-control contexts, I am very glad for Vermont's strict guidelines, and I'm baffled at how many people are engaging in unnecessary travel during a pandemic.

Our resources can be strained to the breaking point with even a small uptick in call volume, and that includes injured skiers making our ambulances unavailable for calls in our service area. Vermont's population is significantly older than the national average, meaning that out-of-state visitors pose a risk to our residents that may be greater than in other areas of the country.

The bottom line is that one is either a VT resident or not, and if not, then you are coming here for non-essential travel. People who want to vacation here, second-homeowners or not, need to be willing to follow the quarantine rules. Isolate yourself at home before coming, or isolate here for 7 days and take a test. If you're not willing to do that, that's your choice, but then you have to stay home. I want my state to continue to do its best to mitigate transmission not just for me and my VT neighbors, but for the sick and vulnerable people that we work with every day.

 

[elemmac]

We are not tourists. We are members our our Vermont community.

The bottom line is that one is either a VT resident or not, and if not, then you are coming here for non-essential travel. People who want to vacation here, second-homeowners or not, need to be willing to follow the quarantine rules. Isolate yourself at home before coming, or isolate here for 7 days and take a test.

I would add that it doesn't matter if you're a tourist, a second home-owner OR a Vermont resident. If you travel out of state to a "yellow" or "red" county, you're supposed to quarantine when entering Vermont.

My only beef with the system is that they update it on Friday afternoon. I have gone to Vermont twice for "non-essential" travel. I went to mountain bike, I social distanced when I was there, camped in the middle of the woods, and didn't even stop for gas in VT. Both weekends, I left on Friday morning, and both times I was in the green. However, I wondered what I was supposed to do if it changed when I was there...shouldn't they update it mid-week, so people have a chance to change plans if their county changes color?

 

[Skivt2]

As I said, we could change our residency to VT and my husband could go one day a week to his school in CT under the Vermont essential travel rule but he would lose his in-state tuition at a CT college. We can’t afford that. I can change my residency to VT. I’ve never done that because I did not want to be accused of tax evasion by CT since in CT you pay $1,000 a year in car taxes and they actively look for rule breakers. That does not help him. He can’t change his residency Or he will lose his in-state tuition. We have a full time home in both states. We average 170 night a year in VT. 45 nights a year in Cape cod at my mothers house. We sleep 150 night a year in CT. Therefore we spend the most number of nights in VT. My husbands only employer is in VT. He is an active member of a large volunteer organization in VT. Where do we live? Am I a Vt resident or not? It’s not as clear cut as some of you make it. Like I said and ski diva said....we all don’t fit in neat little boxes. For some of us this is a real problem. For example, my husband will have to leave his job this winter if we can’t come back. But he has to be in CT one day a week or he will lose everything he has worked for the past 4 years.

 

[MissySki]

Let's all keep this space from becoming what so many social media channels have become with back and forth from residents and non-residents of northern New England please! I think we've kept a much more civilized tone throughout than pretty much anywhere else I've frequented online so far. This never goes well, it gets toxic fast, and it's suuuuper unlikely that either side is going to convince the other they are right/justified in their stance at this point.. just saying.

 

[Skivt2]

I would add that it doesn't matter if you're a tourist, a second home-owner OR a Vermont resident. If you travel out of state to a "yellow" or "red" county, you're supposed to quarantine when entering Vermont.

My only beef with the system is that they update it on Friday afternoon. I have gone to Vermont twice for "non-essential" travel. I went to mountain bike, I social distanced when I was there, camped in the middle of the woods, and didn't even stop for gas in VT. Both weekends, I left on Friday morning, and both times I was in the green. However, I wondered what I was supposed to do if it changed when I was there...shouldn't they update it mid-week, so people have a chance to change plans if their county changes color?

it actually does matter. Vermont residents are permitted to travel for essential travel which includes work for example having to go to another state for one day of work.

 

[Jilly]

I would first like to thank @ilovepugs for her husbands devotion to his profession. I've seen many front line workers when s@*t hit the fan back in March not even living at home. Trailers were brought in at no or low rent to house them as close as possible to their loved ones.

I understand the frustration with not being able to go somewhere. I had 2 major trips cancelled. I've learned to live it. So far I'm out a plane fare only, which I know is lucky. Some people are out thousands on vacations.

The other thing is, with this pandemic there are many people in deep debt now. No job, no income coming in and not sure about your unemployment insurance programs. So being about to afford a second place, owned or rented is to some extent a luxury.

Just to add, I've been working every day since March. I own a company that was considered essential. But so far, I only been 1 hour away from home. But that is by choice.

 

[Skivt2]

All I started with was saying that the quarantine in Vermont for CT makes no sense because CT is the only other state in the country with the virus under control as evidenced by the map I provided. As usual the discussion turned into a lecture on rules with a hit of out of state xenophobia.

 

[Skivt2]

Jilly, I don’t think you read my post. My husband will lose his job in VT if we can’t go there for the winter with him going back to CT one day a week for school where he is training to be a front line medical professional in VT. Uggggg

 

[SallyCat]

It's not xenophobic to discourage unnecessary travel during a pandemic, so let's not introduce epithets to the conversation. Perhaps instead of "Vermont resident" I should have said "anyone living here full-time." It's not about what your legal state of residence is, the issue is where you are actually living and what sort of travel you do from there.

I sympathize with the unusual employment/school situation of Mr. Skivt2; it seems very tricky to navigate. At the same time, that does not necessarily make Vermont's regulations unreasonable. Hopefully there is a way forward via the VT Health Department, and maybe the employer can help advocate for an exemption to the resident-only emergency travel guidelines during the winter.

 

[ski diva]

All I started with was saying that the quarantine in Vermont for CT makes no sense because CT is the only other state in the country with the virus under control as evidenced by the map I provided.

BTW, this map changes weekly, so if CT is doing as well as you say, these restrictions could be lifted soon.

 

[Jilly]

So, @Skivt2 - what is more important? The job or school?

 

[Skivt2]

What is living there full time? So we live there 7 days a week november through June but he drives to CT Monday night to attend class on Tuesday. Are we residents? Are we not? How does that work? Do we have to switch our plate? Do we have to change our voting registration?

 

[ski diva]

What is living there full time? So we live there 7 days a week november through June but he drives to CT Monday night to attend class on Tuesday. Are we residents? Are we not? How does that work? Do we have to switch our plate? Do we have to change our voting registration?

I would call your town office to find out.

 

[ilovepugs]

My only beef with the system is that they update it on Friday afternoon. I have gone to Vermont twice for "non-essential" travel. I went to mountain bike, I social distanced when I was there, camped in the middle of the woods, and didn't even stop for gas in VT. Both weekends, I left on Friday morning, and both times I was in the green. However, I wondered what I was supposed to do if it changed when I was there...shouldn't they update it mid-week, so people have a chance to change plans if their county changes color?

I think that they are relying on data that isn’t published until Thursday. I agree it’s less than ideal. I had plans to go to a green county in August, but it changed to red on the Friday afternoon before. I called my lodging within their 24 hour no-cancellation period and they graciously allowed me to cancel without penalty.