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Uphill arm lift: good drill or bad habit?

Fluffy Kitty

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have this tendency to stack during my left turns and isolate during my right turns. So, carved GS turn going left, and short-radius going right. Turning left, my torso follows the turn like in a nice teapot excercise. Turning right, my torso stays facing downhill. This is normal for me at the beginning of every season, probably because of various ailments (migraine, joints, whatever), and I manage to fix it by the end of the season. On groomers, this is not a huge problem, but in crud, it gets me into some dicey situations, so it's hard to just let it go. I also tend to drift to the left side of the trail, of course, which means my right turns, ironically, end up with more "must turn now" situations.

Every season, I find a different fix. Last season's revelation was that I should just stay in the right turn longer. This season, I noticed that, during left turns, the inside (left) arm is considerably higher than during the right turns, where the inside (right) arm stays closer to the body, front-ish. So, during left turns, the left arm starts out forward and low, then comes the pole touch, and the arm goes out, not straight out, but by the end of the turn, around the fall line, it is pointing uphill-ish, with my hand about even with the shoulder in height and elbow just a little forward of the shoulder, and the hand a bit more forward. My torso is facing in the same direction as the skis' movement. The right shoulder is tilted down. Right arm is more forward, getting ready to point toward the next pole touch.

So, what the heck, I decided to do the same with right turns. The mnemonic is to have my right arm point out after the pole touch, going uphill-ish by the end of the turn. It works fabulously. The carve is more secure, with more solid edging. I am more stable against lumps and bumps and skids, and therefore more psychologically secure. My torso more naturally follows the movement of the skis, and the left arm is more ready for the next pole plant. Now that I am skiing at about the same speed both ways, I can also go at a steady speed, rather than slow down with left turns and speed up with right turns like before. Having a more secure feeling with the right turn has also improved my short-radius turns.

Now, this does mean a lot of movement for the arms during medium-radius turns. I'm thinking this might not be good in the long run. My torso may also be pointing a bit too far uphill; it might not have been that my right turn was too tentative, but that I was hunkering down too far during my left turn (I think @Skisailor commented on a different thread that this might be the case.) and I am now replicating this problem in my right turn. I do pressure my outside ski more than I should, and I'm afraid this "drill" makes this more so.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
Wow. Lots to unpack here! I'm between lessons but will get back to you later. I agree that video would be Very helpful.

But here is some food for thought:
You SHOULD be directing weight onto the outside ski. That's a good thing not a bad thing. Just be sure that you are actually standing on it. Not pushing it away from you. I think we often get confused by the word "pressure".

The hands, arms and torso should be generally quiet in skiing. All the action should be happening with the legs.

In short radius turns our torso should face directly down the slope. As turns lengthen out, the body can follow the direction of the skis a little more, but you should never be completely following your ski tips around with your nose. The skis always turn more than the torso.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
The hands, arms and torso should be generally quiet in skiing. All the action should be happening with the legs.
I am trying to picture how it is possible for arms to be "quiet" while using poles correctly. This is an area I have been working on and it seems that arms must be actively engaged for correct pole usage.
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
I am trying to picture how it is possible for arms to be "quiet" while using poles correctly. This is an area I have been working on and it seems that arms must be actively engaged for correct pole usage.

The pole touch is mainly a function of the wrist - especially in short turns, where the hands can pretty much stay put. In longer radius turns there is a little more movement of the arms timed to coincide with our movement into the turn. But that movement is subtle compared to everything going on with the legs. So I think of it as pretty "quiet".
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
The pole touch is mainly a function of the wrist - especially in short turns, where the hands can pretty much stay put. In longer radius turns there is a little more movement of the arms timed to coincide with our movement into the turn. But that movement is subtle compared to everything going on with the legs. So I think of it as pretty "quiet".

This reminds me of my old pole touch movement in which I moved my hand upwards just prior to the touch, then downward to touch the pole to the snow and which @KatyPerrey quickly labeled "milking the giraffe". LOL !! Then I learned from @Ursula that part of the problem was that my poles were too long . . . The rest was operator error. Too funny. :becky::becky:
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
This reminds me of my old pole touch movement in which I moved my hand upwards just prior to the touch, then downward to touch the pole to the snow and which @KatyPerrey quickly labeled "milking the giraffe". LOL !! Then I learned from @Ursula that part of the problem was that my poles were too long . . . The rest was operator error. Too funny. :becky::becky:
Curious, what size are your poles? I have been using 44" as long as I've been skiing. Tried 42" in Europe just for the heck of it. At first they felt really, really short. Then I got used to them. Used for two weeks.
Just wondering....
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
Curious, what size are your poles? I have been using 44" as long as I've been skiing. Tried 42" in Europe just for the heck of it. At first they felt really, really short. Then I got used to them. Used for two weeks.
Just wondering....

I'm 5'2" and I use 41" poles. I have to buy 42 inchers and get them cut down.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
I'm 5'2" and I use 41" poles. I have to buy 42 inchers and get them cut down.
Hmm I'm 5'1 and have had 44 in forever.... guess I do need shorter poles as they probably don't measure the old school way any longer?
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
Yes. If I were you I would use shorter poles. Poles that are too long can put us in the back seat.

The old quick and dirty - pole should be held upside down and grasped below the basket, then your elbow should be bent at 90 degrees - neglects two things: while skiing the hands should be carried a little lower than the elbows and even more important - we flex our joints! :smile:
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Hmm I'm 5'1 and have had 44 in forever.... guess I do need shorter poles as they probably don't measure the old school way any longer?

I've been skiing with my adjustable poles at 105cm. I just got my 44" non-adjustable poles (which I've had since the late 1980s) cut down to 42", and they feel immensely better.
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
I've been skiing with my adjustable poles at 105cm. I just got my 44" non-adjustable poles (which I've had since the late 1980s) cut down to 42", and they feel immensely better.
I started using my adjustable poles at 110cm when I bought them several years ago. That matched my old (bought in 1982) poles that I'd already cut down an inch a year or two before that. Moved to 105cm when I started skiing more than 50% of the time off-piste. Stats: 5'0", 113 lbs.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
FWIW, I'm 5'5 and after much experimentation, I got my custom length poles at 107cm. (Which google informs me is 42"). They are frankly too short for groomers, but feel perfect in steeps and bumps.

I felt vindicated when I recently read an old Powder magazine article about skiing in Alaska. One of the guides was saying to go 3-5cm shorter than you're used to, so that you'll get forward more. Bingo!

But they really are too short on groomers. This is why downhill racers have long poles and bump skiers have short poles. Horses for courses.
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
And I guess the next question is:
What brand poles come in such a short length? I have Leki carbon fiber and have been looking but not finding anything carbon in a 42" or 105 cm. I'm finding composite and aluminum in that size. I'm wondering if I can get mine cut down - they are clearly not adjustable . Funny when I skied for two straight weeks in Europe and demoed the shorter poles, I thought they were way too short. I felt like I had kids poles - then got used to them... So I don't think I'm a back seat skier and haven't been told that but then it's been awhile since I've had any clinics etc. That will change in February and I'm prepared to hear about bad habits after 40 years skiing!
 

santacruz skier

Angel Diva
FWIW, I'm 5'5 and after much experimentation, I got my custom length poles at 107cm. (Which google informs me is 42"). They are frankly too short for groomers, but feel perfect in steeps and bumps.

I felt vindicated when I recently read an old Powder magazine article about skiing in Alaska. One of the guides was saying to go 3-5cm shorter than you're used to, so that you'll get forward more. Bingo!

But they really are too short on groomers. This is why downhill racers have long poles and bump skiers have short poles. Horses for courses.
Wow that seems awfully short for 5'5 but I guess I'm behind the times as measured pole length the old school way. Good thing I'm up to date on my skis....... now only poles to work on.
 

bounceswoosh

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
And I guess the next question is:
What brand poles come in such a short length? I have Leki carbon fiber and have been looking but not finding anything carbon in a 42" or 105 cm.

Mine are bamboo, and the company will cut them to any length you request. Super light, and quite a conversation starter.


Wow that seems awfully short for 5'5 but I guess I'm behind the times as measured pole length the old school way. Good thing I'm up to date on my skis....... now only poles to work on.

Well, mine are unusually short. That was sort of my point. But I like them that way, which is even more the point! I see a lot of people on the slopes who have odd arm movement patterns because they need to get the arm out of the way of the pole. That's definitely too long.
 

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