Tips for downhill in backcountry gear

[dloveski]

Now that the first snow has come and gone around here, I've started plotting out my ski plans for the season (hopefully a season surpassing last year's pathetic snow year). Due to work commitments and huge and growing crowds in my usual CTWD canyon resorts, I need to be strategic. Because of inversions, winter outdoor exercise in SLC is variable, limiting winter run options. So this season, I will do more b/c short trips---this is the best aerobic activity in a short time frame and early am or pm avoids crowds and allows for work day.

I now have great b/c bindings (Ion2s or something like that) and Acrctryx boots (tre cher both) and semi-decent Black Diamond fats. I have learned finally how to work my tiny little bindings for various walk/ski modes.

The problem is---skiing down is so different in feel and balance than skiing down in my alpine gear. The boots, even in downhill mode, are still quite soft and it's tough to steer the skis. I can get down okay, but sometimes in the tricky spots I have to revert to a modified snowplow or stop and go.

Is this the way it is---because of the nature of the gear to accommodate uphill walks? Are there tips for feeling more comfortable skiing down in soft boots and wobbly wide skis?

 

[WaterGirl]

@dloveski a few questions --
1. What model Acrctyx boot?
2. How fat are your BD skis
3. Your locking your boots and bindings into "ski" mode on the down hill not in skin mode/ free heeling right? Or are you going down hill w/ skins on?

For reference, I regularly ski my AT set up at the resort - not much different than my Alpine....

 

[dloveski]

@dloveski a few questions --
1. What model Acrctyx boot?
2. How fat are your BD skis
3. Your locking your boots and bindings into "ski" mode on the down hill not in skin mode/ free heeling right? Or are you going down hill w/ skins on?

For reference, I regularly ski my AT set up at the resort - not much different than my Alpine....

I don't remember the name of the model (I'm away from home so can't look it up). I'll attach a pic.

100 ft wideth.

I did not know you could ski down with skins on? I free heel with skins going up in walk mode. I remove skins and ski down in ski mode with heels locked in.

I just think that it's a matter of getting used to "softer" boots than alpines when skiing down. The support is not the same and I need to stay more centered rather than lean way forward.

 

[dloveski]

My boots. Really light with gaitor.

 

[WaterGirl]

I did not know you could ski down with skins on?

There are times when you are skinning that you may need to go down hill for a bit (not steep) and its not worth taking skins off so yes you ski with skins on down hill, bindings still set for up hill -- its a skill that I've practiced and used. Like any other ski skill / drill. Comes in very handy.

Im a newbie to AT and perhaps others can chime in but I think you have a boot that is more dedicated to the "up" and you've paired it with a fairly wide ski. While learning to balance / center will help (not sure how heavy your back pack is also) it seems that you have the combination of a lighter boot with a fairly wide ski would definitly give you less control on the down hill. There are stiffer boots or narrower skis - not sure what your ultimate goal is -- the up or the down or both?

hopefully others will chime in.....

BTW I too love the incredible work out of skinning

 

[marymack]

Wish I had advice to help, but I deal with the same thing. My boots are closer on the spectrum of being alpine boots, though they are a much lower flex than in used to in my alpine boots.

 

[SallyCat]

Following with interest. My AT boots are very soft compared to my alpine boots and I've been wondering if that's normal. I'm a little concerned about the same issues as @dloveski

 

[dloveski]

There are times when you are skinning that you may need to go down hill for a bit (not steep) and its not worth taking skins off so yes you ski with skins on down hill, bindings still set for up hill -- its a skill that I've practiced and used. Like any other ski skill / drill. Comes in very handy.

Im a newbie to AT and perhaps others can chime in but I think you have a boot that is more dedicated to the "up" and you've paired it with a fairly wide ski. While learning to balance / center will help (not sure how heavy your back pack is also) it seems that you have the combination of a lighter boot with a fairly wide ski would definitly give you less control on the down hill. There are stiffer boots or narrower skis - not sure what your ultimate goal is -- the up or the down or both?

hopefully others will chime in.....

BTW I too love the incredible work out of skinning

It's the best workout--uphill in winter evening/night is a trip.

I've tried "heavy metal" stiff boots (Garmont, Scarpa) but my odd foot shape is hard to fit and I bust out blisters that break open after about 2 hours of uphill. Duct tape helps somewhat but the heavier boots are not pleasant for me and it's a drag/slog uphill. Even these beasts were squirrly on the downhill---it's just a softer boot than alpine and a different type of skiing.

Arctryx are the first boots that a) don't cause blistering and b) that really make uphill walking pleasant. Yes, it's a trade-off. Expensive, light weight Ski-Mo gear is available for serious ski-mo types, which is not me. My ski-mo friends tell me they buy the light gear to rip fast uphill and downhill really doesn't matter---that's the trade off I'm not into.

I don't want to spend the money and I'm just in it for the solitude and the exercise, not the competition.

Thanks for responding. I am embracing my evening treks and don't mind slow go and leisurely ski downs. Now we just need some friggin snow.

 

[WaterGirl]

@dloveski my only suggestions then based on the Arctryx being the "right boot" for you is trying to stiffen them up some how for the down hill with extra booster type strap? From what I've read these boots are really more about the up then the down. What about trying to lighten your ski -- I don't know what your stats are but 100 width ski seems like overkill for what your are doing. Don't need to go 'ski mo' but something in the 90 range would seem easier - especially for weight and cutting trail.

What are your regular Apline boots out of curiosity?

I understand your Skimo friends, I have one too.... who just bought the speed suit lol.

 

[mountainwest]

Is this the way it is---because of the nature of the gear to accommodate uphill walks? Are there tips for feeling more comfortable skiing down in soft boots and wobbly wide skis?

In my experience, to a certain degree yes, that can be the way it is. The lighter and less stiff your boots are, the more downhill performance you sacrifice. (For this reason I use Scarpa Gea RS boots which are not the lightest on the market, but like you said, even these are no alpine boots). But with practice, you will adapt and learn how to maintain an athletic, centered stance without the resistance of taller, stiffer alpine boots. It just feels really weird at first and takes some getting used to. My first time skiing backcountry there was only deeply trenched, 2-week-old crud to ski on the way down and I felt like I was flopping around like a noodle. Also make sure you are buckling your boots tight enough for the way down. I wasn't at first, and buckling them tighter made them feel a little stiffer.

What kind of terrain are you skiing on the way down? Is it with or without trees? My skis are 112 width and are super fun in deep powder bowls or loosely spaced trees (which is what I usually ski) but are a lot less fun in tight trees.

 

[echo_VT]

here for this. could use advice -

 

[TeleChica]

@dloveski, backcountry skiing is a completely different animal than downhill skiing. I think for an advanced/expert DH skier, it feels strange and somehow wrong to revert to snowplow or other "survival" techniques in tricky spots, but that's just a part of the deal, especially when you first start, and even later, especially in tricky spots or with tricky snow, as you note. I too wonder if your skis are a good match for your boots--if the skis are heavy, stiff, and wide, you might do better with a different ski paired with those boots. Your comment about being more centered over your skis is also spot on. I'm guessing with time, you'll find you adjust just fine.

BTW, we had your bro Jeff and Candy over for dinner on Sat. (You and I met at Brighton briefly, and once in Boston). YES, ready for snow!!!

 

[Ringrat]

I feel like more often than not when I tour, there's some survival skiing involved. Either because I'm bushwhacking at some point, or it's cruddy or windblown or crusty or heavy, or... I find that I have to focus on keeping my hands in the right place and my shoulders facing downhill with my chin over my toe, which for me are the triggers to keep my center of mass over the balls of my feet.

Sometimes my skins are on for the way down. There's one local tour here which has an exit route back down the skid road skin track, which is long and too steep to snowplow the whole way (plus not really wide enough to snowplow), and I gain speed too fast to control it with turns. So, back on my skins go and I just glide back out the skin track for 40 minutes. Other times I resort to downhill traversing and kick turning to get through terrain, especially in mashed potates trees in spring. *shrug*

I've been exclusively using AT boots for about 8 years. It's on my to-do list to go get alpine boots this year...and I actually think I'm going to struggle A LOT in the stiffer boot. Rather backwards for an expert skier, probably!

 

[dloveski]

Thanks for all the tips, no surprises, just confirms my experiences. I find that there are two types of conditions for b/c for us: 1) powder-ish days (when resorts crowded and tracked out---so we hunt for fresh tracks or 2) conditions horrible everywhere/snow is hard or slush---and we are in it for the uphill exercise (downhill survival skiing through trees/trails just to get down).

Not much in between for us, I guess, as we love slack-country for really good ski days (where we ski out of bounds to our little stashes for freshies in alpine gear).

 

[climbingbetty]

I'll concur with what others have said. Real, boots-on-the-ground backcountry skiing, does not look like the epic lines and fresh tracks all over the mags and ski flicks. More often than not, you are skiing narrow, crudded-up shoots in tree way more narrow then you are comfortable with if you usually ski at a resort. There is snowplowing involved. There is all kinds of 'survival skiing' involved. Last year my hubby and I skied up to the Gulf of Slides on Mt. Washington. The skin down took twice as long as skin up because of all kinds of crazy survival skiing we had to do. I think we snowplowed and sideslipped more than we did actual ski turns.

Some lessons learned in the interest of helping you...
- a shorter ski with more sidecut will get you through the tight spots a bit better. Since AT boots tend to be softer, it's harder to drive a longer, fatter ski, especially with tiny little bindings!
- yes, if you get a lightweight boot for the skin up, you're just not doing to get the stiffness and control on the ride down that you would from a downhill boot. That is the nature of the beast. I have nice, light pair of BD Swifts and they just feel like mush compared to my alpine boots on the way down, even if I buckle them as tight as they go and have them locked into ski mode. Their flex rating is technically stiffer then my alpine boots.... not that that means much.
- I had to play alot with the forward angle on my AT boots. From downhill skiing, I hate being too upright on my skis and it really burns my thigh muscles if my balance is off toward the back. I need more forward lean (to compensate for all that junk in my trunk I suppose!) It's sometimes hard to find an AT boot that has enough! Most seem to run around 14 degrees and I prefer closer to 18 degrees. When I'm at a lower forward lean angle it feels harder to control my skis because, well instead riding on them, I'm in the backseat. That doesn't work well for DH skiing at all. You might want to check what angle your boots are currently set for an adjust accordingly.