Staffing at Ski Resorts: '21/'22

[Skivt2]

I'm not sure I'm seeing the whole field of play here. If I recall from previous threads, @Skivt2 , you live in Connecticut and have a rental in Vermont that you frequent mostly for skiing. And you would like to eventually move to Vermont in a few years, but worry that it may not be affordable because of the high demand for real estate in Vermont right now?

I understand that concern. Housing is tight and crazy expensive statewide, and it's hard to make long-term plans not knowing what the market will be like when you're ready to move. That uncertainty must be very frustrating, especially given how quickly the market changed all of a sudden.

In a spirit of encouragement, I would say that your situation seems fortunate in many ways. You currently have a full-time rental in Vermont that you can afford while also maintaining a home in CT. You'll enjoy your ski season at Killington as always. And you're not looking to purchase right now, so when you're ready to look at real estate in VT it could be a very different market. You seem to have a stable housing situation at your primary residence in CT, and that's something a lot of people don't have. At least right now any instability is in the vacation housing.

It's ok to be frustrated that the long-term plans that mean so much to you and that you've worked hard for are changing and maybe in some jeopardy. That's perfectly understandable.

But the people who bought property in Vermont (or Maine, or New Hampshire) in the past year and a half have as much right to be here as you do. You don't know everyone's reasons and motives, and it's not necessary to speculate. You can acknowledge that it sucks that things aren't working out the way you'd hoped without denigrating other people. (I'm a historian of modern Europe, so forgive me if I have a severe allergic reaction when I hear people being separated into us and them, described as cultural polluters, and/or divided into people who are worthy of living in a place and people who aren't). There's enough unkindness in the world right now. Let us support you in your frustration and celebrate you when things work out for you, as we all hope they will. None of that requires ascribing unkind motives to others.

I have lived in VT full time for over a year now. I have green plates. And the only reason we still have to go to CT is so my husband can finish nursing school which is in CT. He is 55 and has been going to school for 5 years so we can afford to buy a house in Vermont. I’m not denigrating anyone. Maybe your biases made you read that in my post. When I say “cultural” I’m not talking about protected characteristics. I’m talking personality traits. I don’t like people buying multiple STR’s to line their pockets to the detriment of my chosen community. I’m not sure why you find fault with that.

 

[ski diva]

Late to the party here, but I'll add my two cents while bringing this back to the original topic: staffing shortages at ski areas. I've lived in Vermont for 14 years now, and I've seen a huge change in the housing market. Like many places, the rise of short term rentals are making it extremely difficult for anyone who wants to buy a house, whether to use as a vacation home OR as a full time residence. I also think that STR's change the tone of the community. People who are renting for one or two weeks are not the same as people who have a vested interest in the local culture (and yes, part-time home-owners -- most, anyway -- do have that interest at heart). Plus it makes it extremely difficult for seasonal workers, on which the ski industry heavily depends, to keep the resorts going. Vermont has a limited pool of workers, so people who come here to work for just a few months have always been a necessity. There are a lot of people who want to come and work for a few months but can't because they can't afford or find housing -- and they could in the past. And that, my friends, is the crux of the matter. What should be going on is more of an effort by the ski industry to help out. Not enough of that is happening in Vermont, and I'm afraid of the effect this is going to have in the coming season. Are STR's going to continue? Who knows. Maybe. But the ski industry better step up. Because if they don't, it ain't going to get better on its own.

 

[Skivt2]

Thanks Ski Diva!! That’s it! It’s heartbreaking for a lot of people.

 

[SallyCat]

Maybe. But the ski industry better step up. Because if they don't, it ain't going to get better on its own.

The ski industry has almost no interest in slowing STRs or addressing the housing issue in Vermont. Those rentals are money in the bank for the ski resorts. Vail isn't even raising its wages beyond a pitiful $13/hr in the East, so they don't seem terribly worried about worker shortages.

At the town level, limitations. on STRs in ski towns have been weak. as water. Killington last year implemented a paltry registration fee system that provides some oversight in terms of strains on related infrastructure, but does nothing to discourage the proliferation STRs.

Any regulation would have to come from the state level, and the ski industry will always have an interest in opposing it. Statewide, STRs are heavily clustered around ski towns (Killington, Stowe, Ludlow, and Dover/Wilmington) and benefit the resorts by increasing visitors. STRs are plentiful because there is a market for them. Affordable-housing initiatives combined with STR regulation will only be effective if implemented at the state level.

And the impetus for those changes has to come from voters. And a green license plate doesn't grant you the right to vote in Vermont; living here, full time, in your primary residence does. Anyone who occupies a primary residence out of state and a vacation home in Vermont and complains about a shortage of affordable real estate is part of the problem and can sit down.

 

[BackCountryGirl]

@Skivt2. I think we're hearing you; I think some people simply are disagreeing with what you're saying and others are taking a bit of exception to your tone.

 

[Skivt2]

I feel my tone is being misinterpreted. I’m not sure what people are disagreeing with. I guess some people feel housing is not a problem, STR’s are just dandy and if folks from elsewhere, with no connection to the place want to buy up property to their benefit and as a result some people who have been part of the community for years have to leave, that is just fine. Does not seem very empathetic but such is our National dialogue these days.

 

[snowski/swimmouse]

Like some of the rest of you, I grew up mostly on Long Island, but in 1968 my parents bought land next to the Downers' covered bridge on the Black River in VT. I fell in love with Vermont immediately. I tried to go to the University of Vermont, but they took NO out of state students the year I started and they still considered me out of state because I finished high school in NY. So, I followed a close friend (& still my ski buddy) to South Carolina where I discovered the school was built by Dexter Edgar Converse of Woodstock, VT. He built 7 textile mills here, too, but couldn't find a school he thought was good enough, so he built one. My plan after college was to teach school in Vermont. But I've always been good with math and it became obvious to me the teachers' salaries were just as lousy in Vermont as they were here, yet the cost of living was triple in VT!!! So, I taught and was a state employee here for thrity years while spending as much time in Vermont as I possibly could. For forty years that went well for me to get my fix while staying in my parents' home. When Hurricane Irene hit, I'd inherited 1/2 of the home and I flew up to assist in the recovery, having many decades of experience in my volunteer work. I worked out of the West Woodstock Fire Department coordinating the clean-up/mucking out, etc. We'd already auctioned the contents of the house, so I slept in a sleeping bag on an inflatable mattress, ate meals on the village green with everyone else and made many new friends to ski with! So my heart has been there since that first Christmas we arrived there in what would be a two foot snowstorm. [I started skiing there as Ascutney then] After the home sale, I've been telling everyone jokingly that my new permanent address is a 5' x 8' storage unit on route 4 in Taftsville. I have qute a few storage containers that I refer to as "insta (whatever room) and I pick those and my "toys" of the season up when I arrive there twice/year (missed one when VT wouldn't let me in without quarantining the whole time) Now I spend about 5 weeks per year up there on my SC pension getting my fix. But with the sale of my lodging, I may be sleeping in the storage unit! Having so many friends in the service industry, I've surely been hearing challenges with the STR's. ......

 

[BackCountryGirl]

And today's NY Times has an article on housing and ski resort staffing. It's behind a paywall, but I know the paper allows a few free views each month.

One of the interesting factors contributing to housing shortages, mentioned at the article's end, is restrictive zoning practices that limit both buildable lots and the types of housing that can be built on them. That seems to make sense--people who want to preserve the rural feel of New England communities, for example, don't want multi-unit dwellings or cluster housing. I'm on my Town's Board of Appeals and see that all the time. People complain about housing costs all the time, but don't want the type of housing that would help reduce costs. Granted, we aren't a ski town (1.5 hrs away). but I bet the politics of Town's ringing ski areas are similar.
Desperate for Housing Options, Communities Turn to Ballot Initiatives https://nyti.ms/31lJDqX

 

[MissySki]

And today's NY Times has an article on housing and ski resort staffing. It's behind a paywall, but I know the paper allows a few free views each month.

One of the interesting factors contributing to housing shortages, mentioned at the article's end, is restrictive zoning practices that limit both buildable lots and the types of housing that can be built on them. That seems to make sense--people who want to preserve the rural feel of New England communities, for example, don't want multi-unit dwellings or cluster housing. I'm on my Town's Board of Appeals and see that all the time. People complain about housing costs all the time, but don't want the type of housing that would help reduce costs. Granted, we aren't a ski town (1.5 hrs away). but I bet the politics of Town's ringing ski areas are similar.
Desperate for Housing Options, Communities Turn to Ballot Initiatives https://nyti.ms/31lJDqX

This is something I’ve always noticed too. Down in the southern parts of New England there’s a ton of cheap multi unit cluster housing, not up north. Obviously depends on the town, many specifically have zoning laws to make this impossible. I believe my town in MA has a rule that residential properties have to be a minimum of one acre in size per dwelling for example. It is totally purposeful, NIMBY. People don’t want to invite a ton of low income housing and folks into their own communities. That’s not a judgement either, it’s just an observation that often the same people whining about an issue are only going to support the measures actually necessary for change if it DOESN’T affect them and the area they live in. No one in beautiful rural communities wants to ugly them up with streets full of multi unit dwellings.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

A local hotel owner just bought a failed nursing home in a large residential subdivision of homes and condos, with the hope of converting it to employee rentals, leased by various local businesses for their staff.

Ckick here for article about the project

The NIMBY voices are loud and clear and the HOA is refusing to change the rules. This is a middle class area by Jackson Hole standards. The building exists, but low income workers would add cars, noise, etc...

STRs are strictly forbidden in that area of the valley by county ordinances as they are in over 80 per cent of the county.

There are many LTRs in the condos there but with mortgages in the many thousands, workers can not afford the rents anyway, so the nursing home conversion seems like a win win.

 

[Jilly]

I live just outside of a beautiful area of Ontario. "The County" was an agricultural county full of farms and small rural towns. My mother grew in one. There are sand beaches that can't be found anywhere else in Ontario. But since the 80's the area has grown into a tourist attraction. Between the beaches and the vineyards there is so much traffic, it's not the quiet stop it used to be. And the same thing that is happening all over...Old "cottages" are being bought up by rich Toronto people, turned into STR, there is no housing for farm workers. When my cousin had a market garden farm, he actually had to bring up 2 Jamaican families to work the fields and put them up in a house. They had an extra house on the farm to do that. But that's not helping the students find housing for summer jobs etc. The canning factories are gone, but the cows still need to be milked. Chickens need to be caught, and grapes, apples still need to be picked.

The local county administration is working through some ideas about all of this, but they do like the tax money these places bring in.

At my cottage the STR's are just starting in the area. Some are really good, some are party palaces. And that 1 party palaces, taints them all. The township hasn't decided to restrict anything yet. And if the noise is too loud, call the police.

 

[MissySki]

A local hotel owner just bought a failed nursing home in a large residential subdivision of homes and condos, with the hope of converting it to employee rentals, leased by various local businesses for their staff.

Ckick here for article about the project

The NIMBY voices are loud and clear and the HOA is refusing to change the rules. This is a middle class area by Jackson Hole standards. The building exists, but low income workers would add cars, noise, etc...

STRs are strictly forbidden in that area of the valley by county ordinances as they are in over 80 per cent of the county.

There are many LTRs in the condos there but with mortgages in the many thousands, workers can not afford the rents anyway, so the nursing home conversion seems like a win win.

Perfect example.. and I’d actually think that folks would find an employee housing conversion much more palatable than low income housing in general. Curious how many people would want it next door to them though. I know for a fact at Sunday River that some of the young seasonal employees are huge partiers. Is it really much different than the neighborhoods complaining about STRs affecting their areas with noise and traffic impacts? It’s better because it’s employees versus tourists or that the turnover is a few months rather than weekly? I can see both sides. And often people buy into an area with zoning codes in mind for what’s around them.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

Perfect example.. and I’d actually think that folks would find an employee housing conversion much more palatable than low income housing in general.

Yet... humans are complex, and we are often inconsistent. We complain about STRs, about employee housing, both in our back yards. We seldom however say a word about the ethics and effects of the major corporations that many of us have our life savings invested in, whose board members are the very ones driving up real estate prices in resort towns, their homes empty for all but a month a year.

The system is set up for failure when greed is necessary to plan for a small safety net in retirement and old age. Many in resort towns are day to day not even able to think of the future.

I wish the billionaire resort homes had large second dwellings, housing whole families working for the homeowner and the community as in the olden days in Europe and the east coast. A form of servitude, but at least with housing security. Servitude is now to the banks and their shareholders.

 

[Skier31]

Yet... humans are complex, and we are often inconsistent. We complain about STRs, about employee housing, both in our back yards. We seldom however say a word about the ethics and effects of the major corporations that many of us have our life savings invested in, whose board members are the very ones driving up real estate prices in resort towns, their homes empty for all but a month a year.

The system is set up for failure when greed is necessary to plan for a small safety net in retirement and old age. Many in resort towns are day to day not even able to think of the future.

I wish the billionaire resort homes had large second dwellings, housing whole families working for the homeowner and the community as in the olden days in Europe and the east coast. A form of servitude, but at least with housing security. Servitude is now to the banks and their shareholders.

I agree 100%.

I was fortunate to buy a studio condo (foreclosure) in Breckenridge in 2003. It was a stretch for me so I rented it during the week to a woman who was retired and wanted to ski during the week. I used it on the weekends. It was a fantastic situation for both of us. She had a place in the mountains for a great price and her rent helped me pay the mortgage. I do not live in Breckenridge at this time so rent it to a local worker. I could make lots more money doing the STR but I get how difficult it is. I have had great tenants and feel like I am doing something that benefits the community.

Aspen SkiCo has a great deal of housing and recently built new apartments near Basalt. Even with that building, there is nowhere near enough housing but it is a step forward.

The housing conversation with the Aspen City Council is in the paper frequently.

I do not have any answers.

 

[MissySki]

I agree 100%.

I was fortunate to buy a studio condo (foreclosure) in Breckenridge in 2003. It was a stretch for me so I rented it during the week to a woman who was retired and wanted to ski during the week. I used it on the weekends. It was a fantastic situation for both of us. She had a place in the mountains for a great price and her rent helped me pay the mortgage. I do not live in Breckenridge at this time so rent it to a local worker. I could make lots more money doing the STR but I get how difficult it is. I have had great tenants and feel like I am doing something that benefits the community.

Aspen SkiCo has a great deal of housing and recently built new apartments near Basalt. Even with that building, there is nowhere near enough housing but it is a step forward.

The housing conversation with the Aspen City Council is in the paper frequently.

I do not have any answers.

How far is the drive from Basalt for employees in that housing? Is there no land closer that could be used, or is that the closest they could get? Curious if it was intentional to stick them away from everything/not use pricier areas, or if it’s just land availability dictating.

 

[RachelV]

While I do empathize with residents who are worried about the effects of new housing developments, it's also not reasonable to expect that nothing will ever change at all and Aspen / Jackson / Summit County / pick your ski town in 2021 can or should look just like it did in 1960. I'm not sure where the balance is, but I do know that it's more or less impossible to argue that the current balance is working.

 

[Skier31]

How far is the drive from Basalt for employees in that housing? Is there no land closer that could be used, or is that the closest they could get? Curious if it was intentional to stick them away from everything/not use pricier areas, or if it’s just land availability dictating.

20-30 minutes. There is a fabulous bus system. Skico employees get discounted bus passes.

Lots of people live in Basalt and work in
Aspen. Basalt is expensive as well. My guess is that this is the closest location that would work financially.

 

[elemmac]

I think a lot of the distaste for short term rentals is a bit misdirected. While I do think that they play a part in exacerbating an already difficult situation, I think that it's a drop in the bucket for housing shortages that we're seeing. Getting rid of short term rentals would have little to no impact on the problems people are experiencing in finding/affording housing. This market is definitely not unique to Vermont.

It all comes down to the shortage of housing supply, and a massive increase in demand. This has been years in the making.

Discussion on housing supply from Freddie Mac in an article from 2018:

"After nearly a decade of low levels of building, housing stock is well short of what the United States needs. In this Insight, we focus on the consequences, rather than the causes. Our analysis shows that 370,000 fewer units were built in 2017 than needed to satisfy demand. Overall, the shortfall ranges from a low of 0.9 million to a high of 4.0 million housing units, as of the second quarter of 2018, depending on the assumptions (see discussion later in this Insight). If supply continues to fall short of demand, home prices and rents are likely to outpace income and household formation will fail to reach potential. The inadequate level of U.S. housing supply is a major challenge facing the housing market in 2018 and likely for years to come." - End quote.

Freddie Mac predicted it would be at least a year or more before things start to even out...then...

::ENTER COVID 2020::

Essentially all construction was halted for a period of time, then supply chains started having issues, and material cost skyrocketed. Thus...we still have major issues with supply. It took almost a year for supply to start creeping back up, but we're still FAR from where it needs to be.

Then demand comes into play. More and more Millennials (largest generation since baby boomers) are entering home ownership which is driving up demand (this was predicted YEARS ago). Add on record low interest rates, many people from the Baby Boom generation are now taking advantage of refinancing, and using equity to buy second homes OR cashing in on their existing homes at record high prices and cash-buying in locations that are more appealing to their interests and retirement (e.g. moving out of a city and to the countryside in Vermont). People are now working from home and realizing their home is not large enough to set up a suitable work environment...adding a little extra demand to the market.

NIMBY seems to be regularly preventing people from increasing supply. I see it every week in my area. People on the local Facebook group complaining that there's not enough affordable housing, then proposals get shot down left and right, due to others preventing things from being built. This often comes down to state regulations, and zoning rules. These are the initiatives that should be brought to the forefront of the conversation...not people buying second homes and using them as STR.

 

[Christy]

The one thing I'd caution about the idea that zoning changes to allow multi-unit housing will increase affordability, is that in and of itself, it doesn't seem to work.

Here in Seattle, with our small land mass, constrained geography and newfound popularity, the housing issue has become THE issue. So quite a lot of the city was upzoned to allow for bigger taller apartment/condo buildings; some single family zones were converted to townhouse/4 plex zones, and all single family lots now can have 3 units--one duplex and a DADU (detached accessory unit, basically a small house), and the process for those is very streamlined. The city will give you building plans and streamline permits and there are no parking or owner occupancy requirements in an effort to get DADUs built. We've added 60,000 housing units in recent years.

But nothing being built is affordable. There is no measure in place to promote or ensure that. Developers continue to build units that will bring them the maximum return. So small starter homes are being torn down for luxury townhouses. Older, more affordable 2-story apartments are being torn town to build 8-10 story luxury apartments. Everything built is for tech worker salaries. In large buildings, and only large buildings, 3% of the units have to be affordable to people making 60K a year, but this is so little it doesn't make a dent. There are no affordability requirements for townhouses or smaller buildings. There are no requirements to forbid a person from building a DADU but renting it on Airbnb. Prices just go up and up. Zoning changes have not brought affordability, not by a long shot.

There are a lot of good points above about NIMBY-ism, and the situation in a dense city is a bit different than in a small ski town. I think that every town should be able to house the workers that live in that town. You don't get to be a suburb that has groceries and gas stations but bans apartment buildings (my inlaws live in a town in WI that bans all multi-unit housing). But since I do read, nearly everywhere, that increased density via zoning will be the solution to our housing crisis...that alone won't work. It's easy for me to imagine a ski town loosening zoning to allow density then everything being snapped up by remote workers, retired people, investors, etc. You really have to find a way to earmark it for workers, and that is a whole different issue.

 

[Skier31]

One of the hot issues in Aspen is retired workers. People have rented or bought housing through the employee housing program, lived there for many years and are now reaching retirement age. They are staying in their homes so the supply of housing for current employees continues to decrease.

Again, I have no answers. It is huge problem.