-
Women skiers, this is the place for you -- an online community without the male-orientation you'll find in conventional ski magazines and internet ski forums. At TheSkiDiva.com, you can connect with other women to talk about skiing in a way that you can relate to, about things that you find of interest. Be sure to join our community to participate (women only, please!). Registration is fast and simple. Just be sure to add [email protected] to your address book so your registration activation emails won't be routed as spam. And please give careful consideration to your user name -- it will not be changed once your registration is confirmed.
So, are my quads supposed to be getting tired and sore?
- Thread starter KBee
- Start date
marzNC
Angel Diva
+1. Quads should not be sore after skiing.
The guys who brag about how sore their quads are after hard charging down steep terrain are not skiing efficiently. They are muscling their way down because that's the only way they know how to keep themselves from hurtling down even faster than they want to go.
A story . . . I took a group lesson for seniors with an older man a few years ago at my home mountain, Massanutten (northern VA). I'd worked with the instructor, Walter, for a couple years before that lesson. The man hadn't had a lesson in a long, long time, if ever. He had trouble doing a basic drill on the blue trail, even at the mildest pitch. Finally got it right a few times after we moved to a green. Walter had told him early in the lesson that the goal was to ski more efficiently in order to have more fun as a skier over 50, or 60, or older. After the lesson, I took the time to chat with the man for a few minutes after Walter headed back to ski school for the next lesson line up. I found out that this man's idea of the perfect ski day was when his legs were so sore from charging down the steeper black (2 min run, blue at a big mountain) all day long that he could barely walk to his car. Needless to say, he never made C-turns, was always braking to scrub speed, and was in the backseat a lot more than he knew.
Recreational skiing is not a sport that requires super strong quads, assuming moderately good technique. For that matter, it's more important to have a balance between hamstring and quad strength. That's a good way to help protect knees because hamstrings help support the knees. I learned that after knee rehab (not a skiing injury).
The components of ski conditioning include balance, flexibility, core strength, cardio, and leg strength. I've been working on hip flexibility lately. Needed to improve that aspect as I work on the more subtle movements covered in lessons for advanced skiers.
The guys who brag about how sore their quads are after hard charging down steep terrain are not skiing efficiently. They are muscling their way down because that's the only way they know how to keep themselves from hurtling down even faster than they want to go.
A story . . . I took a group lesson for seniors with an older man a few years ago at my home mountain, Massanutten (northern VA). I'd worked with the instructor, Walter, for a couple years before that lesson. The man hadn't had a lesson in a long, long time, if ever. He had trouble doing a basic drill on the blue trail, even at the mildest pitch. Finally got it right a few times after we moved to a green. Walter had told him early in the lesson that the goal was to ski more efficiently in order to have more fun as a skier over 50, or 60, or older. After the lesson, I took the time to chat with the man for a few minutes after Walter headed back to ski school for the next lesson line up. I found out that this man's idea of the perfect ski day was when his legs were so sore from charging down the steeper black (2 min run, blue at a big mountain) all day long that he could barely walk to his car. Needless to say, he never made C-turns, was always braking to scrub speed, and was in the backseat a lot more than he knew.
Recreational skiing is not a sport that requires super strong quads, assuming moderately good technique. For that matter, it's more important to have a balance between hamstring and quad strength. That's a good way to help protect knees because hamstrings help support the knees. I learned that after knee rehab (not a skiing injury).
The components of ski conditioning include balance, flexibility, core strength, cardio, and leg strength. I've been working on hip flexibility lately. Needed to improve that aspect as I work on the more subtle movements covered in lessons for advanced skiers.
marzNC
Angel Diva
That's a question for @Gloria.
When I'm exercising, I always do something for hamstrings. Mostly stuff I learned during knee physical therapy or the followup sessions with my personal trainer. Hamstrings get included even if I'm doing just basic stuff for 30 min. The year or two after knee rehab I was using a leg press at the fitness center and worked up to a decent weight. Haven't bothered to do that for a while. I do squats and lunges that are good for quads but it's not a major focus in comparison to the other components I mentioned.
Gloria
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In strength training we work off percentages ie: your front squat should be within a certain percentage of your back squat and your back squat should be a certain percentage of your deadlift etc. this doesn’t necessarily measure which muscle is actually THE strongest but ferrets out imbalances and helps programming. In terms of being quad dominant I don’t think your hamstrings need to necessarily be stronger just the prime mover in certain movements. There are some functional screens for this that I can search out and post later when I have time.
lisamamot
Angel Diva
Unless you are being tested in a PT environment it is quite hard to get a real reading. My daughter is in PT and gets tested with a handheld MMT (manual muscle testing) dynamometer. It measures pounds of pressure exerted and they use it to test her hip, quad and hamstring. While I would love to have this done, I'm thinking blowing my ACL wouldn't be quite worth it. I will ask her PT next time we are in if there is a good way for the rest of us to get a feel for hamstring strength.
Women tend to be quad strong and as such our quads can overpower the muscles in our knees - strong hamstrings help. Knees can be an issue for women in general as we tend to have wider hips than men so the angle at which our knees spend most of their time is different. Obviously not all women have the same shape, so this will not be true for all.
@KBee - my legs do not get sore unless I am skiing in conditions I find challenging such as larger amounts of new snow. A day of powder skiing and my legs are talking! With very few opportunities to ski powder my technique is lacking so I expect some of the muscle fatigue is due to that. That said, low dorsiflexion (which I have) can also contribute to it being difficult to take the stress off the quads. I am going to start actively working on stretching my achilles/calves.
Serafina
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I definitely feel it in my quads after I've been skiing on dense powder, bumps, etc. I don't feel it while I'm skiing that stuff - if I do, it's because I've gotten into the backseat so it's a cue to move my weight forward - but later that day and night, yeah, definitely my legs are going to be feeling the workout.
I don't get quad soreness if I'm carving groomers or skiing on ice/hardpack/etc. Just the churned up soft stuff.
I don't get quad soreness if I'm carving groomers or skiing on ice/hardpack/etc. Just the churned up soft stuff.
tinymoose
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thanks for this. I have really no idea as I don't do any lifting so I'll be curious to see. My conditioning for gymnastics is all using your own body weight.
This is really interesting! Last year, I was in the backseat constantly, I could hardly walk to the car when we were done for the day. I bought better fitting boots and did leg blasters all summer. On our trip a couple weeks ago, I didn't have any quad soreness until halfway through day 5, woot!
My new comfort zone has me cruising firm blue slopes at a good clip, with big floaty feathered turns. I might be turning into a one trick pony! It all falls apart in heavier snow. Straight to the backseat! It's a mental thing...In the back of my mind, I become so convinced I'll catch an edge and wipe out that my expectations become reality.
Are there some visualizations I can use when I'm not on skis?
My new comfort zone has me cruising firm blue slopes at a good clip, with big floaty feathered turns. I might be turning into a one trick pony! It all falls apart in heavier snow. Straight to the backseat! It's a mental thing...In the back of my mind, I become so convinced I'll catch an edge and wipe out that my expectations become reality.
Are there some visualizations I can use when I'm not on skis?
I just posted a similar visual on a post about speed but imagine pressing your tips into every sing turn you take on those more challenging runs. I can’t exactly speak to powder skiing as I’m from the land of hardpack and loose granular haha (East Coast) but I love steeps. The more nose bleed the better in my book lol and don’t be scared of the fall line. So many people freak out when their skis are pointing straight down the hill that they immediately move into the backseat and zig zag their way down. That’s not skiing, that’s traversing from the backseat! The only time I truly say you should traverse a trail (when skiing for fun, drills are another story) is if you’re seriously freaked out or if you take a child on a run that’s beyond their comfort zone. Tips for getting more comfortable in the fall line is one, garlands if you’re on grommets or I suggest finding a gradual slope (if possible) with deep snow and seriously straightlining it. I suck in powder, like laugh your ass off terrible my first time, but I’ve gotten a bit of practice in during the early season when mountains out here weren’t grooming yet and we had a solid 6-12 inches in certain spots and had to readjust my love for carving to much more gradual swoop-y turns while spending lots of time in the fall line. Still imagine your pressure point between your binding and the point where your rockered tip veers up but I wouldn’t purposefully drive your tips to stay forward in heavy snow unless you’ve got a long enough ski with adequate mm underfoot unless you want some over the handle bar action to quote @snoWYmonkey.
Last edited:
I think I'm less afraid of the fall line now as I am of failing to recognize when I'm in the backseat and badly executing a turn. I got really hung up about it in my last lesson, I was so confused! The instructor fussed at me the whole time for not turning frequently enough, for keeping my skis in the fall line for too long, which was the opposite of what the previous day's instructor had praised me for doing well. I was much more comfortable carrying a bit of speed on the steeper runs, making bigger, more meandering turns. Going so slow had me convinced I was about to break a leg. I'm hoping my new, flexier boots will help (The old ones were like concrete blocks on colder days) but I don't want to be a gear blamer, I want to own this, lol! I am trying to mentally put aside that whole lesson as me having a bad day, but I just. can't. let. it. go. I can't wait to get back out there and get over it :-)
@Scribble my bad for misinterpreting! It sounds like what your instructor wanted you to do was focus on shorter, faster turns possibly? That is a more advanced skill, and it sounds like you are getting to the point where you are ready for it. Whenever I had someone teach me this or figured it out myself it’s easiest to think of isolations—upper and lower body separation. You should still be reaching with your upper body down the fall line and in the direction you want to go next, but using your legs for tighter turns. At first it might feel a bit like a monkey rubbing it’s stomach and head at the same time but you will adjust once you feel accustomed to this next step. A lot of this will involve leg steering (rotary) and (again I can really only speak to groomers) rolling your skis to get from edge to edge. The natural shape of your ski is meant to create turns, so you’re going to capitalize on that with the knowledge that you’re controlling how “turn-y” you’re getting since these are short turns. Again, it’s hard to know what the instructor wanted but that might be a bit of an idea?
This is exactly it, thank you! I think I am at an ugly duckling stage where I haven't integrated that upper and lower body separation enough to be able to do it unconsciously. I had a real problem with leg rotation that day and I think maybe I was focusing on it to the detriment of everything else. I'll watch some more videos and try to practice in my head until I'm back on the snow!
Three things: Fuzzy socks, slippery floor (like hardwood), and something to hold onto :p move your feet parallel from side to side in the skiers stance while keeping the pressure mainly on the ball of your toes. Your hips and upper body should stay square and not move. Try and get comfortable in this position. If you have a garage w concrete floors and something you can hold so you don’t fall, you can do this exercise in your own boots to get an even better muscle memory feeling.
On the slopes, think about reaching opposite your skis towards where you want to go rather than where you are. That criss cross of direction usually negates one and other and keeps you square. Another exercise you can run by yourself is garlands with squared off hips on a gradual slope (bunny hill would be best) with both poles held together in both your hands parallel to the slope (like a lunch tray) and point your skis down the fall line. Hold the “tray” steady and go straight down. Once you’ve picked up speed, roll your ankles to turn your skis, but keep your “tray” square and facing down the slope. Now point down the fall line again. Rinse repeat. Do this on the other side. Now combine them. Do two per each side. Then just do one. Then link your turns. Hope this helps! Forcing yourself to ski steeper slopes and confront this habit, ideally with someone who can ski this skill or with an instructor, will help break you of the one trick pony habit too once you’re comfortable with the separation idea!
Gloria
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I’m having a hard time finding anything universal that you can do at home but this is a simple test/exercise that you can do at home both to see and use to retrain movement.
Basically it’s a step up - you can use a lower box or even a bottom step.
Put one foot up on the stair with your shin vertical over your heel and step up only using the leg that is on the step. Do not push off the floor with the other foot - pull the other foot off the floor with the higher leg. If you cannot rise without pushing through the lower foot than you are likely quad dominant. If this is the case you can simply keep working on this until you can do it successfully. You can use this when walking up stairs anytime to get stronger here.
Two reasons I like this -
You can apply it randomly - like when you are going upstairs and its easy to find a place to do it.
Secondly - it’s not really a hamstring vs quad issue it’s a posterior chain vs quad issue - You can also be hamstring dominant where your hamstring takes over for the glute. This movement forces you to fire from the glute then the hamstring.
Basically it’s a step up - you can use a lower box or even a bottom step.
Put one foot up on the stair with your shin vertical over your heel and step up only using the leg that is on the step. Do not push off the floor with the other foot - pull the other foot off the floor with the higher leg. If you cannot rise without pushing through the lower foot than you are likely quad dominant. If this is the case you can simply keep working on this until you can do it successfully. You can use this when walking up stairs anytime to get stronger here.
Two reasons I like this -
You can apply it randomly - like when you are going upstairs and its easy to find a place to do it.
Secondly - it’s not really a hamstring vs quad issue it’s a posterior chain vs quad issue - You can also be hamstring dominant where your hamstring takes over for the glute. This movement forces you to fire from the glute then the hamstring.
Divegirl
Angel Diva
I have been following here with interest. I have been going back forth about asking this so here goes.
The consensus here seems to be quad pain is due to being the back seat alot or all the time. I have been bothered by quad pain last year and now this year. I took a lesson last year to see if I had stance issues and was told I was fine.
Are there any other possible causes of quad pain? I am having difficulty making it down a run w/o stopping to rest. I feel like I have lost my stance somewhere and I trying to find it again. I have had some knee and ankle problems and I have put some weight on the last couple years. I am not sure if any of that would have any affect.
The last time I had this type of pain I apparently needed new boots. Those boots were 10 yrs old and in poor condition. The ones I am in now are less than 5 yrs and are in good condition. I had my boot-fitter check them out this fall. I am going see him next week as I need a bit of work done and I'll ask him his thoughts. My only other thought would be another lesson to make sure I am not doing something weird w/ my stance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
The consensus here seems to be quad pain is due to being the back seat alot or all the time. I have been bothered by quad pain last year and now this year. I took a lesson last year to see if I had stance issues and was told I was fine.
Are there any other possible causes of quad pain? I am having difficulty making it down a run w/o stopping to rest. I feel like I have lost my stance somewhere and I trying to find it again. I have had some knee and ankle problems and I have put some weight on the last couple years. I am not sure if any of that would have any affect.
The last time I had this type of pain I apparently needed new boots. Those boots were 10 yrs old and in poor condition. The ones I am in now are less than 5 yrs and are in good condition. I had my boot-fitter check them out this fall. I am going see him next week as I need a bit of work done and I'll ask him his thoughts. My only other thought would be another lesson to make sure I am not doing something weird w/ my stance.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Christy
Angel Diva
Yes if your boots have too much forward lean, for example. It could be as simple as that--good thing you are seeing your fitter soon. Sometimes new skis/bindings can play into this as well--sometimes when you have have too much stuff (heel lifts, bindings with significant ramp angle, boots with spoilers or just too much lean) it tips you too far forward then you have to sit back to compensate. Then, pain. The fact you can't even take one run without quad pain makes me think it's equipment. That's not just fatigue. (Ask me how I know).
