skiing bumps

[bounceswoosh]

Hmmm, just to add another dimension to this talk of bumps, is there a standard style preference in lessons? For instance, I really don't enjoy watching mogul races on TV - skiers have to focus more on speed than style (with the exception of the jumps). I like watching bump skiers who weave a run and enjoy a little occasional air, not the blurry knee movement seen in races. Is there a standard method used by instructors?

Jenn - I've worked on moguls with several different instructors, and while they all had slightly different focus (or maybe different approaches to get to the same end goal), none of them were interested in teaching competition style bumps. And of them all, the one who actually has been a pro competitive bump skier simply said that you have to learn to ski them slowly before you can ski them that fast.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Question for the instructor divas: would the pivot slip drill help me break my habit of locking out the downhill knee? (And come to think of it, DH was showing me that drill a few weeks ago ... just didn't have a name for it.) Whether yes or no, are there other drills that would help me fix it? (Sorry for the hijack; from talking to a few people offline, it sounds like the stiff knee thing might be a common bad habit.)

YES.
Absolutely.
I have seen this super-straight downhill ski leg habit; in fact, I've even watched it being TAUGHT. I don't get it. Where it would totally throw you off is in bumps. And pivot slips are a key drill in learning bump skiing. There's no way to do the maneuver with a straight downhill leg/locked-out knee. I've seen people instantly improve their form doing this - and they've loved how it felt.

 

[bounceswoosh]

YES.
Absolutely.
I have seen this super-straight downhill ski leg habit; in fact, I've even watched it being TAUGHT. I don't get it. Where it would totally throw you off is in bumps. And pivot slips are a key drill in learning bump skiing. There's no way to do the maneuver with a straight downhill leg/locked-out knee. I've seen people instantly improve their form doing this - and they've loved how it felt.

I guess I know what I'm doing on my warmup runs on Saturday!

DH always does short tight turns to warm up, or whenever we're on groomers. I always do a few, then get "bored" (which might also translate as "This is too hard") and switch to big arcing turns down the mountain. I do like going fast down a groomer. But in those big arcing turns, I can get away with a rigid downhill leg. Bah. Back to basics I go.

 

[Skier31]

Question for the instructor divas: would the pivot slip drill help me break my habit of locking out the downhill knee? (And come to think of it, DH was showing me that drill a few weeks ago ... just didn't have a name for it.) Whether yes or no, are there other drills that would help me fix it? (Sorry for the hijack; from talking to a few people offline, it sounds like the stiff knee thing might be a common bad habit.)

Pivot slips are mostly for edge release skills and fore/aft balance issues, although you can't do them with a locked downhill leg. They are not easy to do correctly and it would be good to have an instructor watch you do them to make sure you are doing them correctly before doing them on your own.

I would start with side slipping in a corridor thinking about keeping your downhill knee, "soft".

I would also suggest planting your poles in the snow just lateral to your boot. As you ski, make sure that both poles keep in contact with the snow at all times. This helps you get your body in the correct position and prevents you from leaning uphill as you turn.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Pivot slips are mostly for edge release skills and fore/aft balance issues, although you can't do them with a locked downhill leg. They are not easy to do correctly and it would be good to have an instructor watch you do them to make sure you are doing them correctly before doing them on your own.

I would start with side slipping in a corridor thinking about keeping your downhill knee, "soft".

I would also suggest planting your poles in the snow just lateral to your boot. As you ski, make sure that both poles keep in contact with the snow at all times. This helps you get your body in the correct position and prevents you from leaning uphill as you turn.

Thanks for the feedback!

"They are not easy to do correctly" - meaning to do without using edge rather than rotation?

I'll try thinking about my downhill knee while side slipping, and keeping both poles on the snow (that one I haven't played with at all, so that may give me new information). I am also wondering if my stiff knee may actually be a symptom of inadequate ankle flexion - need to take a look at that as well when I'm on the slopes this weekend.

 

[Serafina]

"They are not easy to do correctly" - meaning to do without using edge rather than rotation?

I know a major issue for the people in my clinic when we learned these was doing them without involving the upper body - everyone wanted to point the torso in the direction the skis were facing. Instructor demonstrated what to do by moving down the slope while pivot slipping, and showing us that at all times we were able to read the ski-school logo on the back of his jacket.

 

[Skier31]

I know a major issue for the people in my clinic when we learned these was doing them without involving the upper body - everyone wanted to point the torso in the direction the skis were facing. Instructor demonstrated what to do by moving down the slope while pivot slipping, and showing us that at all times we were able to read the ski-school logo on the back of his jacket.

Agree with Serafina - too easy to rotate your hips/upper body or initiate with uphill ski creating a stem like movement.

 

[volklgirl]

The other thing that makes them hard to do correctly is that both skis need to pivot simultaneously but most people end up with a 1-2 motion instead from trying to move that "inside" foot out of the way.

 

[mountainxtc]

Agree with above that pivot slips (braquage is the translation for us canucks) are extremely hard to do well for a number of reasons. This drill works primarily on pivoting skills, although as with any drill the better your balance the easier it is.... a good test: if you are not in a corridor (i.e. if you are moving across the hill at all) you are not doing it!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Thanks for all the feed back. I've done a lot of lessons and would like to think that I can translate all of this into doing the drill properly. I'll almost certainly be in lessons this Saturday and Sunday anyway, but I want to work on this while warming up before lessons. And if there's a lot of snow, none of us will probably be all that interested in doing drills ...

 

[Jenn]

Jenn - I've worked on moguls with several different instructors, and while they all had slightly different focus (or maybe different approaches to get to the same end goal), none of them were interested in teaching competition style bumps. And of them all, the one who actually has been a pro competitive bump skier simply said that you have to learn to ski them slowly before you can ski them that fast.

Thanks a lot for all your input into this thread bounceswoosh. You (and many others!) have given me a lot of food for thought. If it wasn't calling for 1.5" of rain tomorrow I'd be heading out to try the pivot drill!

Completely off the topic - your name works well in a basketball forum too - very cool and neat visual too

 

[Skier31]

Thanks for all the feed back. I've done a lot of lessons and would like to think that I can translate all of this into doing the drill properly. I'll almost certainly be in lessons this Saturday and Sunday anyway, but I want to work on this while warming up before lessons. And if there's a lot of snow, none of us will probably be all that interested in doing drills ...

Pivot slips are one of the level 3 cert skills and are complicated. It does not make sense to do them incorrectly. Ask your instructor to do them with you in class before doing on your own.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Pivot slips are one of the level 3 cert skills and are complicated. It does not make sense to do them incorrectly. Ask your instructor to do them with you in class before doing on your own.

Thanks for your concern. After doing a search on pivot slips and reading up on them - I've worked on these in a few of my lessons. Either no one told me the name, or I just didn't remember. I'll definitely make a point of talking to one of the instructors about it this weekend, if I make it to the slopes. (I was going to ski tomorrow and Sunday, but DH isn't feeling well, so we'll probably just ski Sunday. I hope.)

 

[KatyPerrey]

(I was going to ski tomorrow and Sunday, but DH isn't feeling well, so we'll probably just ski Sunday. I hope.)

Get up to the mountains!!! It's going to be a powder weekend! Loads of snow today and more on it's way!!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Get up to the mountains!!! It's going to be a powder weekend! Loads of snow today and more on it's way!!

I will go up this evening - with or without him! But I'd really like it to be with him. He's, you know, my *guy*. insert sloppy goofy lovey-dovey stuff

And honestly, we're both so drained - I woke up after 10 hours of sleep (yum!) feeling a lot better than I have lately, but I'm still pretty tired. So ... I guess a day off won't kill me.

Hrm ... I wonder if we should take Monday as a vacation day to ski, making the fourth short work week in a row ...

 

[bounceswoosh]

Thanks a lot for all your input into this thread bounceswoosh. You (and many others!) have given me a lot of food for thought. If it wasn't calling for 1.5" of rain tomorrow I'd be heading out to try the pivot drill!

Completely off the topic - your name works well in a basketball forum too - very cool and neat visual too

Sorry for hijacking your post! I hope you get a chance to practice soon.

I personally have zero basketball capabilities - and even if I did, I have the most pathetic jump in the world. The username came from some events in an online computer game long ago. It just kinda stuck =)

 

[Stowski]

Not only useful but probably one of The Key Skills that is taught in bump skiing. Watched DH teach this for days over course of the last month.

OK. I read all of this and looked up Pivot slips on youtube and I'm pretty sure I can do that. I'll practice and see but my question is WHERE on the mogul do I pivot? On the top? I'm trying to avoid the zipline right now and focus on turning on top of the bump (cuz that is what my instructor told me to do). Then I am at a loss. I end up in a trough and before I know it I'm up and over a bump and out of control. HELP!

 

[Skisailor]

I can only tell you what was a breakthough for me. (And also that bumps means practice, practice, practice - I've been seeking out and skiing bumps alot over the past couple of seasons and I'm seeing slow, gradual improvement. But you have to be willing to get in there and keep at it).

That said, my breakthrough was from the Lito Tejada Flores instructional video - Bumps and Powder.

To answer your question - yes, you turn somewhere near the top of the bump - the exact spot doesn't matter. There are lots of possibilities. But if you turn at or near the top, there is less resistance since part of your skis will be off the snow, so it's easier to initiate a turn. It makes sense.

My "Lito breakthrough" was in his concept of a "delayed finish". That is - you don't want to turn quickly and all at once. If you do, it means you will be trying to finish your turn on the steep front side of the bump (a very awkward place to be as a beginning bump skier). You want to start the turn, hesitate for a moment in the fall line, then finish the turn on the back side of the next bump.

He has a drill on flat groomers where you start your turn, go straight down the hill for a moment, then finish. Start, go straight, finish. That feeling of hesitation is what put me over the top with bump skiing. I know it's a little different from some of the other things said in this thread - but there you have it. Worked for me!

I imagine as one gets more accomplished, you finally get to the point (as some indicated earlier in this thread) where you feel like you can just turn anywhere and ski the bumps almost as if they aren't there. But I know I'm definitely not there yet! So I'm in transition somewhere - an improving bump skier. But I do know that I'm now to the point where I really enjoy skiing all but the gnarliest bumps.

And it was Lito's strategy that worked for me.

If you can't visualize what I'm saying, I can't say enough good things about that bumps and powder video. I'm sure it's still available . . . .

 

[Liquid Yellow]

Wow, in all the ski drills and lessons I've had over the years, I don't think I've ever tried pivot slips, and this thread makes me want to give it a go.

I've never been great when it comes to large and steep bumps on black runs, it's always been a case of 'getting down them', rather than actually skiing them.

My old carvers were actually quite good in bumps, because not only were they short, but they were also very soft (hence the useless edge grip on ice!)

I've not had a chance to try my S86Ws in bumps yet and I'm a bit apprehensive about how they'll perform because they're longer than I'm used to at 170, wider than I'm used to AND pretty stiff.

How do other Divas find their all-mountain skis in the bumps?

 

[MaineSkiLady]

OK. I read all of this and looked up Pivot slips on youtube and I'm pretty sure I can do that. I'll practice and see but my question is WHERE on the mogul do I pivot? On the top? I'm trying to avoid the zipline right now and focus on turning on top of the bump (cuz that is what my instructor told me to do). Then I am at a loss. I end up in a trough and before I know it I'm up and over a bump and out of control. HELP!

As noted above, you can do it on top of the bump or on its shoulder. I generally opt for the shoulder. That then puts you in the trough, where you can either turn (quick) or approach the next bump to do the same.

Agree totally with the post above that all this must be done in s...l...o...w motion. Another good drill is to traverse the bumps, again very slowly, and get the feeling of bringing your legs UP as you go over them, absorbing them, with minimal upper body motion.

It's fine to do this over a couple of bumps and only attempt to turn on the third. Getting it down to turning on every bump comes with time and practice.

This is all part of a skill set progression that DH has taught for years, and I wish it translated better to words. I will one day get his movements on video and upload. I've watched him teach bumps for....years....and with very good success.