Should I move my bindings?

[SheSki]

My local hill has two runs left and since I was a little bored, I was screwing around carving with different techniques. As far as my feet/lower legs go, I usually only think about my big toe and little toe and keeping my shins pressed forward when I'm carving but on this run I tried to push in my heels, without going in the backseat. The result was that my skis (163cm Kenja) started turning themselves. It was pretty wild and I felt less than 100% in control but it was pretty fun. I love my kenjas and have always had an easy time driving them hard and fast with a bit more difficulty getting them turning in moguls.

The experience made me question if my bindings were placed a couple of cm back - they are currently "normal" - would I have that effortless turning experience all the time? Would I even like that? Did I just accidentally find the position I'm supposed to be in for moguls? What is the harm to the skis when moving bindings, I mean I get there are holes but what's the practical harm? If you move bindings (not that I'm even close to deciding to do this) how do you take care of the affected areas? Is there be a way to decide proper binding placement based on body shape and center of mass from the start? Thanks a bunch SkiDivas!

 

[Jilly]

Sounds like you've been hanging around the front of your boots too much! I got caught this winter with this. Yes you need to pressure the tip of the ski by pressuring the front of the boot, but you need to move with the turn. Sounds like that is just what you did. Absolutely nothing wrong with that.

So don't play with the skis, play with your skiing.

 

[volklgirl]

I'm with Jilly. You should be balanced and centered in your boots, not constantly hanging out on the tongues. Yes, you pressure the tongues at the start of the turn, but the pressure moves back through the rest of the foot as the turn progresses. It sounds like you just discovered the joy of that feeling. Just wait until you really pressure the tails at the end of the turn.....Woo Hoo!!!

As far as the other part of your question - you can drill skis up to 3 times as long as the holes aren't too close together. There are plugs that get glued into any holes that aren't currently in use to keep moisture from going into the holes and working its way into the core.

 

[Christy]

One of the most interesting things I learned at the Diva clinic at Big Sky with Ursula is to get OFF the front of my boots. This was a very weird concept for me because I have always, always been told to "make wine" on my tongue, or keep a $100 bill there, or whatever. Don't let that bill go! It took me years and the right boots to be able to get that far forward, now I need to back off.

But we also talked about how on women's skis, the bindings are often mounted forward, and how that doesn't work for all women. But I wonder how we would know if we'd prefer to have them mounted further back. It's not like we can demo skis that way--the bindings would all be mounted to the factory rec. And you can't just go back and forth with ease to figure out what you like.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Speaking of the Ursula clinic - pick up one of your skis and find the center of mass - where along the length of the ski can you put your hand so that it balances perfectly?

 

[SheSki]

Speaking of the Ursula clinic - pick up one of your skis and find the center of mass - where along the length of the ski can you put your hand so that it balances perfectly?

Does this affect where the binding should be placed? My hand was about 3" north of the boot center line.

sounds like you just discovered the joy of that feeling. Just wait until you really pressure the tails at the end of the turn.....Woo Hoo!!!

I think you are right, I was playing and getting more comfortable with it today. I love skiing :-) There are so many different ways to have fun.

 

[MissySki]

But we also talked about how on women's skis, the bindings are often mounted forward, and how that doesn't work for all women. But I wonder how we would know if we'd prefer to have them mounted further back. It's not like we can demo skis that way--the bindings would all be mounted to the factory rec. And you can't just go back and forth with ease to figure out what you like.

In my case when I demoed the Elysians before buying the rep had them mounted -2, so that is how I mounted them when I bought. I never actually demoed them at factory recommended which I'm curious about now to compare the feeling. Always check to be sure where they are mounted when you demo if you might be interested in buying them, I just happened to randomly ask and he went on and on about -2 being better for east coast conditions with that ski etc etc. I hadn't expected all that, and was happy I asked as it's not something I normally thought of doing before that.

 

[Ringrat]

Does this affect where the binding should be placed? My hand was about 3" north of the boot center line.

Ursula was encouraging us to have our weight on the balls of our feet, and the balance point of the ski under that point. Sounds like you're in that ballpark.

 

[WaterGirl]

But we also talked about how on women's skis, the bindings are often mounted forward, and how that doesn't work for all women. But I wonder how we would know if we'd prefer to have them mounted further back. It's not like we can demo skis that way--the bindings would all be mounted to the factory rec. And you can't just go back and forth with ease to figure out what you like.

Nope, its actually very easy to change mount point on a demo binding. Assume first that the person who originally drilled and mounted the demo binding has it where it should be mounted. It takes two steps generally to change a binding for each new skier. Playing with the placement of the TOE piece first allows you to experiment with + / - of factory center.

For example your BSL is 270. The tech moves the FRONT of the binding to match the 270 mark on the binding. Then follows up with a change in the heel piece to make it match the 270 length. If the binding was mounted correctly, you should be riding at factory mount point. Next person tries the ski and the TOE piece is moved to first to the mark that represents their BSL.

So if BSL 270 wants to try the ski at 1+cm, they simply ask the tech to set the TOE piece at 280. Now assuming again that the demo mount was set up correctly you would be able to see how the ski rides at a +1. Want to try at -1cm -- set the toe piece at 260. The heel piece is simply moved up to match the toe.

I have found that increments of even .5cm can make a difference in the way the ski rides...... again, many different variable come in to play and there is no perfect way to ensure that you are really at factory center unless you look at your boot mark and the mark on the ski when you are clicked in to a demo binding. When I demo I always check where the tech has set up the toe piece at least at the correct BSL.

In my case when I demoed the Elysians before buying the rep had them mounted -2, so that is how I mounted them when I bought. I never actually demoed them at factory recommended which I'm curious about now to compare the feeling.

Ha! I tried these this weekend, fun ski and IMHO you made the right move. Demo'd same length as my current Samba, but rode way too short at factory (or where ever I was). Felt like too much ski behind me and not enough up front, I would have wanted that ski in 2 sizes up -- so maybe what ended up being "factory" on the ski was not truly "center" and your rep put you on track for your conditions ;)

 

[frenchgirl]

That is the reason why I like demo/system bindings and have them on all my skis. I do not trust the manufacturers telling me what is best for me

 

[mustski]

Interesting discussion. What do techs do when a skier changes one size up or down in boots? DS's bindings were adjusted regularly for a few years without any redrilling and they weren't demos. I just switched to a boot with a smaller BSL and had my bindings adjusted without drilling. Do they just move the heel forward or back?

 

[frenchgirl]

Interesting discussion. What do techs do when a skier changes one size up or down in boots? DS's bindings were adjusted regularly for a few years without any redrilling and they weren't demos. I just switched to a boot with a smaller BSL and had my bindings adjusted without drilling. Do they just move the heel forward or back?

Yes they do if they can. Otherwise the skis have to be redrilled and then you end up with lots of holes. Usually if someone goes up or down one size they may be ok although if they go up they will be back of where they were and if they go down a size then they end ahead of where they were. More than one size and re-drilling is usually needed. It is hard on customers when someone comes with new boots thinking it will be a minor adjustment only to find out the skis have to be re-drilled.

 

[CarolB]

I've always had demo bindings but the new skis I just bought (in the wrapper still) came with Marker Squire 11 bindings. I haven't mounted them yet and am debating just swapping out my demo bindings from my extra pair of skis but then I'd have to find a wider brake, if they even have that option.

I find that I actually don't move the center point around on my carvers but is it more likely that I might want to ever have that option on a fatter pair of skis (90 under) ?

 

[Bluestsky]

@WaterGirl What have you experienced with your bindings moved forward too much?

 

[WaterGirl]

I guess too forward gives you too much tail - more carve/ less float --- I've never really tried demoing past +/- 1.5 just to play around and only specifically with skis I was going to buy but still had ability to demo and figure out if I wanted to mount differently than factory.

I'd like to point out that one certainly can over analyze where to mount skis. IF you really can't decide and want to play around, get the Marker Squire (Griffon) Schizo - you can move your mount point forward or back depending on conditions with a simple turn of the screw - ie you have a mid fat ski - maybe you like a bit forward for groomer/ tree days to increase turning ability then you get a powder dump, move it back to get more float......
@elemmac had suggested the Schizo for this reason in another post.

There is something to be said about the simplicity of just mounting the ski at factory and skiing it. For me, getting back into skiing has been all about finding what equipment I like and setting it up how it works best for me where I ski regularly. I also am used to playing around with surfboard fins and traction pads to find the sweet spot on my boards -- I regularly mix things up by trying different fins/ combinations to make the board ride differently/better based on wave conditions. I have just translated this to skis. When demoing I pretty much know if I like the feel of the ski right away - If its something I am interested in I may play around w/ mount point if I am intending on purchasing.

 

[CarolB]

That's interesting re: your surf note as it reminded me of Windsurfing which is so equipment dependant, especially for small girls - what size sail, how much downhaul/outhaul, which fin, mast base forward/aft. ARGH!!!!!! Forget about is there ANY wind or do you need to drive 1 mile around the corner to get it and then re-rig. LOL!!! I think that is one of the things I do love about my skiing personality/life- I just get on the darn things and go and hopefully it works, I can go out in anything (pretty much) and stay out as long as I want. I can complicate it but don't bother mostly.

 

[litterbug]

So I wouldn't suggest hurrying to move the mounting point unless you demo Kenjas and love them more with the bindings moved back.

Could it be that by "pushing" your heels you were actually flexing your ankle more? Or were you actually leaning against the back of the boot? Flexing my ankles seemed to be the key to unlocking my Kenjas' turning potential; it felt like it gets my balance point further forward, which the Kenjas seemed to love.

As for putting the bindings where the ski weight is balanced, I've never heard that, and it doesn't make sense to me, because once the ski is sliding on the snow its performance is based on its shape, not its weight.

 

[litterbug]

Oh, and congrats on getting to that wonderful point where your Kenjas become responsive. Mine sat in a corner for over a year because although every once in a while I could get on them correctly, I just wasn't in the right place to have them be fun all the time. So I was ecstatic when I took them out this year and saw that even my modest skill set was now good enough for them to be a blast all day every day!

 

[Skisailor]

Does this affect where the binding should be placed? My hand was about 3" north of the boot center line.


I think you are right, I was playing and getting more comfortable with it today. I love skiing :-) There are so many different ways to have fun.

Where the ski is perfectly balanced should be where the ball of your foot goes . . .

 

[AltaEgo]

Another consideration...some bindings (especially those marketed as women's bindings) have a slight forward ramp angle built in. I had to put a toe plate in my Knee binding to neutralize the forward ramp angle. I have the Marker Griffon Schizoids, and was able to move them up a bit until I found the sweet spot for me. (Then I went to shorter poles and moved the bindings back to neutral, which is working better. I am engaging my new inside edge much more aggressively now.)