Salesmen say the darndest things

[Tammy]

I'm certain that I'm not the first person who's ever walked into a ski shop to have a salesperson push higher priced and--more importantly-- unwanted gear on them. However, I just needed to get this off my chest.

Yesterday, I went into one ski shop in town to pick up a pair of cheap jr.-sized ski poles. I knew exactly what length I needed and the price I wanted to pay. Had a little trouble finding the length I needed and asked for help. The salesman wanted to sell me a longer-length adult ski pole (read, more expensive pole) and cut it down to size. Luckily, I found the correct length pole hiding in the bin for the right price before he came back.

Today, I demoed some skis from another ski shop in town. While I'm short, I'm not exactly petite in stature. I asked the salesman about front-side carvers to demo. I ended up demoing the Elan Amphibio Insomnia and the Salomon Bamboo. It was absolutely remarkable to me that the salesman said that both of these skis might be "too much ski for me." Neither of them were. In fact, the Bamboo was a little soft.

After I returned the skis, he tried to push these really wide K2 powder skis that were very, very expensive. I pointed out to him that these skis were not front side carvers, which was what I was looking for. He proceeded to tell me that no one is selling front side carvers anymore since no one wants them. Ski boots are being reworked so that skiers don't have to be as forward in them. Lastly, he proclaimed that it's "easier to ski" with wider skis and these reworked boots. Huh?!

I'm not sure what is more ridiculous to me at this point: salespeople making silly assumptions about short female skiers (e.g. can't bend a stiff ski, etc.); or salespeople assuming that it's easier to ski in all conditions with powder skis.

In certain situations like these, I feel like I know more about the gear I want than many salespeople do as a result of this site. I'm very grateful for this .

 

[MissySki]

In certain situations like these, I feel like I know more about the gear I want than many salespeople do as a result of this site. I'm very grateful for this .

+1! . I just smile and nod at these types of ppl., and take everything they say with a grain of salt!

 

[Tammy]

I smiled and nodded too. We don't have too many ski shop choices around here and figured it's best not to burn bridges.

It really makes me wonder if front side carvers will no longer be around in a few years though.

Out here in MT we do indeed get a fine share of powder days where wider rockered skis are great!

However, on other days we can get hardpack and sometimes mildly icy conditions on a really bad day (depending on where you go around here). I can't imagine skiing these kinds of conditions on wide skis (>80mm underfoot) without completely exhausting myself before lunchtime.

While I was skiing at Song Mountain in Upstate NY, I was very grateful to have my Atomic D2 75s even though they're very heavy. Most of the snow was man-made, but no ice. Despite this, I didn't see a single person there with wider skis. Most people were on either front side carvers or de-tuned slalom skis. It makes me wonder if ski shops on the East Coast are trying to push wide skis as well?

 

[sorcamc]

what did you think of the insomnia?

 

[abc]

It really makes me wonder if front side carvers will no longer be around in a few years though.

No worry there. They're still being made alright, sold in plenty places too, just not sold in Montana! ;-)

It makes me wonder if ski shops on the East Coast are trying to push wide skis as well?

Yes, it's a fashion...

People are gaulable. If they can't ski powder, they're easy marks to be sold a dream...

Out here in MT we do indeed get a fine share of powder days where wider rockered skis are great!

However, on other days we can get hardpack and sometimes mildly icy conditions on a really bad day (depending on where you go around here). I can't imagine skiing these kinds of conditions on wide skis (>80mm underfoot) without completely exhausting myself before lunchtime.

"Icy" condition in the west are nothing like icy condition of the east (read: freeze after warmth/rain). 80mm does mostly fine out west. That's what I take with me when I go out west. I've hit condition the locals in the west considered "icy". Except we would have called them "hard pack" or even "pack powder"! I can ski them on 80+ skis all day just fine.

That said, I feel your pain. Geometry dictates short people having proportionally short legs will have a harder time on wider skis. Draw a diagram of the relative angle of lower leg vs edge angle, you'll see clearly why some woman, especially short women, find wider skis more tiring. (I'm not short for a woman, but I'm still quite a bit shorter than average man)

The average salesmen aren't the brightest bulbs of the world. Gear experts are the exception rather than the rule. Better ones acknowledge their lack of expertie instead of pretend. Worst are those who didn't even know they don't know sh1t!

 

[Tammy]

what did you think of the insomnia?

Hi sorcamc,

Here's my review:

https://www.theskidiva.com/forums/i...n-amphibio-insomnia-and-salomon-bamboo.15498/

In a nutshell, I liked them, but not enough to run out and buy them. I kind of enjoy working the ski a little more to make carves. Others' mileage may vary though . I'm considering a pair of older model Speed Magics in a 155 cm instead.

They are worth demoing though; ride was as smooth as silk!

 

[mustski]

With the exception of boots ... I go into a store knowing what I want, tell them to get it for me, and then buy it. I don't do this because I am an expert but because, more often than not, neither are they. I can depend on my own research more than the salespeople. Sometimes I think it is worse if I am alone than if DH is with me. Of course, I live in SoCal where reputable ski shops are few and far between.

 

[Tammy]

"Icy" condition in the west are nothing like icy condition of the east (read: freeze after warmth/rain). 80mm does mostly fine out west. That's what I take with me when I go out west. I've hit condition the locals in the west considered "icy". Except we would have called them "hard pack" or even "pack powder"! I can ski them on 80+ skis all day just fine.

Very true. I had my first taste of East Coast skiing recently and conditions were very good-- no ice, no crust. Perhaps when I go back in the winter to visit family again it might be a different story.

That said, I feel your pain. Geometry dictates short people having proportionally short legs will have a harder time on wider skis. Draw a diagram of the relative angle of lower leg vs edge angle, you'll see clearly why some woman, especially short women, find wider skis more tiring. (I'm not short for a woman, but I'm still quite a bit shorter than average man)

Hmmmmm... There's some more food for thought. I have no problem skiing my Kikus in the soft stuff where an edge isn't needed. I took a lot of lessons last year to improve my technique. One of my instructors told me that I should consider purchasing a "citizen" slalom race ski or something that was lighter and much narrower underfoot (67-75 mm underfoot) with a turn radius of 11 or 12 m so that I can carve better. This instructor recommended the Nordica Dobermann SL skis. I demoed them last year and they needed a serious waxing and tune-up; it was getting warm out and I was sticking to the snow.

Worst are those who didn't even know they don't know sh1t!

Amen Sister!

 

[maggie198]

With the exception of boots ... I go into a store knowing what I want, tell them to get it for me, and then buy it. I don't do this because I am an expert but because, more often than not, neither are they. I can depend on my own research more than the salespeople. Sometimes I think it is worse if I am alone than if DH is with me. Of course, I live in SoCal where reputable ski shops are few and far between.

Me too. If there's one thing that demoing skis clearly shows is that everyone has different likes and dislikes. Early on I learned that it was not wise to trust a male shop employee about what ski I'd like. Suggestions are welcome on what to try, but PLEASE don't try to tell me a 152cm ski is fine for me at 5'6" in height! Boots are a different matter entirely, if you have a boot fitter whose expertise you trust.

As far as width, two years ago I would've considered an 80mm (or over) waist way too wide for my predominantly East Coast skiing. But now I find that my thinking has changed. The BPs are easy to get on edge as long as you're not in the back seat. I think a lot of the new wider-waisted skis are fairly easy to turn. Narrow-waisted skis seem squirrelly to me now.

 

[altagirl]

Heck, my husband was trying to convince me recently that my 115mm underfoot skis are too narrow to be my everyday skis anymore.

I do understand the annoyance with salespeople who just won't listen to what customers want, but I can't really blame someone for encouraging people to try fatter skis. If you've never tried them or haven't tried them in several years, the new ones are so much more versatile than they used to be that I'd want to share that info too.

 

[maggie198]

↑

but I can't really blame someone for encouraging people to try fatter skis. If you've never tried them or haven't tried them in several years, the new ones are so much more versatile than they used to be that I'd want to share that info too.

I agree, altagirl. But tammy's point on salemen's assumptions is very valid, I think.

 

[altagirl]

↑

I agree, altagirl. But tammy's point on salemen's assumptions is very valid, I think.

Yeah, I didn't mean to argue the point that salespeople need to respect their customers. I agree that they often cross the line between trying to educate/share info and go into disrespecting customers and their goals/interests.

I've had the same thing happen to me before too (so it's not just short women) - probably a decade ago I asked the price on the 180 Big Stix 106 in a shop and was told "You couldn't handle those skis". Well, thanks for your opinion, but how much do they cost? "You should try these all mountain type skis instead". Fine, don't answer my question. Left and went and bought some Big Stix 106 online. (And promptly broke them, so apparently the skis couldn't handle me, not the other way around).

My point is just that if they ask a lot of questions about your skiing and want to introduce you to something new because they think you might like it once you try it, or it might help your skiing - yeah, they might still hit a nerve if the customer doesn't want to hear it, but at least it's well intentioned advice. But a lot of times they don't ask a single question but seem to think they know what you need based on looking at you, which is ridiculous.

 

[2ski2moro]

Some stores in our area are notorious for stocking only low end skis and boots for women. That's fine for some people, but I like a lively ski and a stiffer boot. More than once, a salesman has tried to put me on a noodle instead of what I came in for. Even to the point of outright lying to make it seem more like what I wanted. This makes me crazy. Do ya think I'm stupid?

 

[mustski]

Some stores in our area are notorious for stocking only low end skis and boots for women. That's fine for some people, but I like a lively ski and a stiffer boot. More than once, a salesman has tried to put me on a noodle instead of what I came in for. Even to the point of outright lying to make it seem more like what I wanted. This makes me crazy. Do ya think I'm stupid?

I live in San Diego. If I go into REI, everything for women is geared to intermediate skiers. That drives me crazy! I understand that there is a good chance that most of their clientele are occasional skiers, but how about some advanced equipment. I used to have a shop in Big Bear that I could depend on but the owner was a jerk so now I buy online all the time and head to LA or Mammoth for boots. I think I'm going to try the guy in LA because it's closer for tweaks and I can only afford Mammoth once a year!

 

[B-Tele]

Despite the painful salesperson interaction, he was right that boot manufacturers are gearing their boots to a more upright stance...I think we'll see even more of it next year.

mustski: the REIs are merchandized based on location. In Montana the REIs have that intermediate gear but also dabble in more of the advanced/expert selection. This also goes for the outerwear selection, FWIW.

 

[mustski]

Despite the painful salesperson interaction, he was right that boot manufacturers are gearing their boots to a more upright stance...I think we'll see even more of it next year.

mustski: the REIs are merchandized based on location. In Montana the REIs have that intermediate gear but also dabble in more of the advanced/expert selection. This also goes for the outerwear selection, FWIW.

I know. My location is definitely the problem. Now surf gear ... we got that in spades!

 

[MonsteRawr]

Just bought a pair of K2 SuperFree's, but in the process of shopping I came up against a lot of the same.

My favorite was at a particular shop I was looking at the K2 SuperGlides, but they didn't have them in anything long enough for me. (I'm 5'9", and was looking for something in at least a 170, if not longer.) The salesman had been mildly helpful until he heard what length ski I was looking for, then all of a sudden all he wanted to sell me was a pair of 2012 176 SuperBurnins that he hadn't been able to move. I hadn't done any research on that particular ski, so I asked him to tell me about them. That began a repeating loop of, "Oh, these are great, I sell a ton of these! And $250 is a steal!" I'm sure both those things are true, but the fact that you sell a ton of them doesn't tell me a single thing about them. Tell me about the ski.

Well, he couldn't. So I went home (a bad move, he said, they were sure to be gone by the time I came back,) and did a little reading on them. From there, I learned that while they're fantastic on hard pack, they tend to fall apart in powder, so not a good choice for my one, all-condition-all-mountain-works-in-everything-but-water ski. Since we can't afford for me to have a multi-ski quiver right now, they're not for me.

But who knows, maybe the salesman did know that about the ski but was just hoping that by being vague I would get caught up in the price and take them off his hands. Maybe in a couple months I'll stop by and see if he wants to get rid of them badly enough to give them to me for $100!

 

[Celestron2000]

M.R. Yay on the Superfrees! Post a report when you get to ski them.

...always recruiting for the Superfree fan club.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

PLEASE don't try to tell me a 152cm ski is fine for me at 5'6" in height!

I got this last month from demo reps (mainly because some didn't even BRING longer than 152 ). And because it is appropriate for my weight. But...sheesh...after around 20 years on a 190....I like my metal edges! 160+ or bust, please.

 

[Tammy]

Wow, it's surprising that even a demo rep would try to convince you that a 152 is "more appropriate" for you. I got that once at a used sporting goods store looking for skis; but I kind of expected that kind of thing there.