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Question: Safety. What's your strategy?

IceHeeler

Angel Diva
I was out riding my bike last week. It was dusk. I was alone but meeting up with some friends. A pick-up truck I had passed was pacing me. It started passing me, then waiting for me to catch up, then would rev it's engine way up, then it would start the whole cycle again. I was on a path, so I wasn't in the road. At one point I felt threatened by their behavior. When scared, I go into fight mode. I got off my bike, turned to face them with my hands on my hips, and they drove off. I met up with my friends who were about to come looking for me. (It turns out my friends had been watching me on my tracking software and were concerned I had gotten a flat tire.) The experience made me aware of how vulnerable I am when I'm alone.

I went out and bought pepper spray to keep with me when I'm running or riding. It's something I probably should have done a while ago as there are many off-leash dogs in my area.

Anyone have any tips for what they do when they're out alone?
 

abc

Banned
Nothing.

I did have an incident similar to yours a few years back. I pull my phone out of my pocket to check if there's signal (there was). The truck drove off as soon as he saw I had a cell phone in hand.
 

MissySki

Angel Diva
I haven't had this experience as I don't really go off alone into these situations because I am scared of this sort of thing. Very scary what you have described here!

I think it is always best to be alert since people look for an easy target, and that is one who can be taken by surprise. Having a way to get attention or contact others such as a whistle and cell phone if you have reception also seems wise. Pepper spray certainly can't hurt either..
 

whitewater girl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I had a similar incident in high school (though I actually got "flashed" by the guy) - was a public enough area; I just made sure to STAY very public...

I don't know what I would do now (I DO do alot of stuff by myself - guess I count on being able to turn on loud & ornery b*tch mode, for what that's worth)...

I do have to note though; guys I paddle with think I'm being ridiculous for not being willing to hop into any stranger's car (me alone) for a ride back to the put-in (also for not being willing to paddle - again just me - with a group of strange men)...
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
My Dakine pack has a whistle integrated into the chest strap buckle. I've never had these types of issues, but have always considered it more of a safety thing if I crashed alone and needed to try to get attention. I don't have any issues riding alone, but I ride in relatively safe areas and basically just keep an eye open. I think I worry a lot more about running into moose than I do worrying about running into dangerous people. Not that it couldn't happen, but I think just like you did, showing them that you are aware they are there and acting confident, pulling out a phone, etc. tends to make people move on. I guess you could also carry any number of different things for self defense as well, but I've never felt like that was necessary.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
The truth is ... if a someone wants to grab you, he will ... and whistles and pepper spray and cell phones won't help because he will be prepared for those eventualities. The other truth is ... we can't live life in a bubble or hide or run around packing a 9mm. I don't bike or hike alone in isolated areas, but when I walk I take my german shepherd with me. She's a pussycat, but she doesn't look like one and I taught her to bark when I say "what's that?" Really scary and handy around the house.
 

Inoffensive Nickname

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I carry pepper spray and a cell phone (with the bike version of SkiTracks, which is convenient), and appear actively aware of my surroundings. Bad guys are usually looking for people who act like victims (nervous and jumpy, or oblivious to their surroundings). Granted, no amount of pepper spray will stop someone who has made that decision to harm you, but if he's scoping out someone to victimize, he will have a tendency to go after an easier target.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
The truth is ... if a someone wants to grab you, he will ... and whistles and pepper spray and cell phones won't help because he will be prepared for those eventualities. The other truth is ... we can't live life in a bubble or hide or run around packing a 9mm.

That just seems a little overly pessimistic to me. I mean, I guess if you have a professional assassin after you or someone who is after you in particular because they have some vendetta against you personally or something crazy, yeah. I just think most of the assaults and things that happen could be prevented with awareness, basic self defense training (which usually puts a lot of focus on awareness as well), making good decisions about the places you go alone (I agree on not hitchhiking...), and carrying various items for self defense. (And I have a concealed carry permit, if I wanted to I could very well bring a gun with me when I'm out riding or hiking or whatever too... not that you even need a permit - it's legal here to just have a gun on your hip in the open if you were so inclined.)

That said, I think having a dog with you (or at home for that matter) helps for sure. People don't know how an animal will react and for the most part would move on to an easier target.

And I guess I think it also depends on what you consider an "isolated area". I feel much safer in the wilderness than I do walking around in a city at night, that's for sure. But you never know. And places like the trail the OP was talking about where a car can parallel it aren't wilderness. Better to pay attention no matter where you are.
 

mustski

Angel Diva
Agreed, Altagirl. I didn't mean to sound pessimistic. I just meant that we need to go ahead and live life and enjoy ourselves without paranoia because other than basic precautions we can't defend against crazy people. I personally have nothing against firearms (though a carry permit is next to impossible in CA); I just believe that even a firearm wouldn't do much good against a determined and prepared predator.
 

whitewater girl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The truth is ... if a someone wants to grab you, he will ... and whistles and pepper spray and cell phones won't help because he will be prepared for those eventualities. The other truth is ... we can't live life in a bubble or hide or run around packing a 9mm. I don't bike or hike alone in isolated areas, but when I walk I take my german shepherd with me. She's a pussycat, but she doesn't look like one and I taught her to bark when I say "what's that?" Really scary and handy around the house.
awwww...I grew up with a german shepherd who was a pussy cat...

if I wanted to I could very well bring a gun with me when I'm out riding or hiking or whatever too... not that you even need a permit - it's legal here to just have a gun on your hip in the open if you were so inclined.).
hmmm, I live in New York state, where officials get just a wee bit touchy if you do that (though in this part of NY, gun racks in the back of pickups are de-rigueur)
 

litterbug

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
hmmm, I live in New York state, where officials get just a wee bit touchy if you do that (though in this part of NY, gun racks in the back of pickups are de-rigueur)
Yep, there I was, in 1987, sitting in the back of the empty Moab diner at 2:00 in the morning eating biscuits and gravy after driving about 80 miles from the park for my days off, when three dusty odorous cowboys walked in with actual spurs on their heels and actual pistols on their belts. They nodded, I nodded, and I filed it away so I could post about it here. :tongue:

Gee, I should tell that story more often.

Seriously, having had training in self defense and having worn a weapon on a duty belt to go with my flat hat and uniform, I decided long ago not to own or carry a firearm once I left law enforcement. If you are trained in self defense and firearms handling, and if you refresh your training a couple of times a year, and if you're able to walk around with your antennae up all the time, and if you are certain that nobody else can get to your gun (kids, unstable friends, thieves), then it's worth carrying one if you have the cojones. If not, it's just as likely that your gun will be used against you, because 1) you won't get your defenses up quickly enough to whip the thing out and use it, and/or 2) you're a good guy and will hesitate before shooting, and the bad guy knows that. I feel much better about my ability to stomp on an instep or strike upward with my palm to a guy's nose than to use a weapon. And despite my inability to run distance, I sprint really well.

I don't walk around in fear, but I try to stay aware at all times of the people around me. I enjoy noticing the variety of people I see on the street or in a store, and noticing things also tells me way ahead of time if someone seems suspicious, at which point I raise my antennae. The best defense is staying away from trouble spots, not appearing to be vulnerable (stand up straight, walk and move purposefully), being willing to look someone in the eye like IceHeeler did, and knowing your escape routes--into the middle of the street or an open business, up to the nearest streetlight, or up a hill (always better to have the 'upper' hand in a fight).

IceHeeler, I had the distinct image of any animal that makes itself seem bigger by standing tall, puffing out its fur, or whatever, when I read your story. One of the first things I learned about dogs is that one way to deal with a mean one is to stand up real tall, put one hand on your hip, point the other straight out over the dog and shout in a low gruff voice, "go home!" Not that they understand what you're saying, but that pose and vocalization has intimidated many a mean beast. Sometimes you need to do this for a while as they slink away and snarl at you, but it works. That's what you did with those bozos, and it worked.
 

altagirl

Moderator
Staff member
Seriously, having had training in self defense and having worn a weapon on a duty belt to go with my flat hat and uniform, I decided long ago not to own or carry a firearm once I left law enforcement. If you are trained in self defense and firearms handling, and if you refresh your training a couple of times a year, and if you're able to walk around with your antennae up all the time, and if you are certain that nobody else can get to your gun (kids, unstable friends, thieves), then it's worth carrying one if you have the cojones. If not, it's just as likely that your gun will be used against you, because 1) you won't get your defenses up quickly enough to whip the thing out and use it, and/or 2) you're a good guy and will hesitate before shooting, and the bad guy knows that. I feel much better about my ability to stomp on an instep or strike upward with my palm to a guy's nose than to use a weapon. And despite my inability to run distance, I sprint really well.

This is exactly my theory as far as carrying weapons around as well. I don't really see any situations where I'd carry one around at this point aside from in the car to go to the range. I think the self defense training I've done is a lot more practical outside my home.

I think if you're worried about personal safety, the best thing to do is invest in some self defense classes.
 

abc

Banned
Another danger of having a gun "too handy" is you could potentially shoot the wrong person.

One of my biking buddy was in law enforcement and he slept with his weapon. One day, he called his brother in law to come feed his cat while he's on vacation next week. But the night before he was to leave, he came down with the flu. So he stayed home instead of leaving on vacation.

Late in the evening, in his haze of fever, he saw someone climbing through the window "in the dark of night". He jumped up and armed the weapon...

The intruder shouted "don't shoot, I'm your brother-in-law"!

Turned out, he came to feed the cat as promised, but realized he forgot to bring the key. About to leave, he saw the window was open, and decided instead of driving all the way home to get the key, he'd just get in through the window...

Well, he almost got shot by his brother-in-law!!!
 

IceHeeler

Angel Diva
IceHeeler, I had the distinct image of any animal that makes itself seem bigger by standing tall, puffing out its fur, or whatever, when I read your story.

It's funny. I've had years of self-defense and martial arts training. Yet when I'm threatened, I revert to "angry bear" method. I get super-calm, but extremely agressive. I tend to make dogs submissively pee, so I think I have a pretty good presence when I need it.

Most of the time when I run or bike, I'm watching for dogs, bears, coyotes, and moose. I forget about people being jerks. I had a hilarious experience last week. I ran around a corner and had a moment of panic when I saw a big horn sheep. It was a statue! In that moment I was trying to figure out the best way to get around him and came up completely blank. Once I realized it was a statue I had to stop running because I couldn't stop laughing at myself.
 

segacs

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't even give it a second thought at home. Naive, maybe, since this is a big city and we have our share of crime, but I've never -- not even drunk and alone in the middle of the night -- felt unsafe here.

When I'm travelling, I tend to be a bit more alert. Not paranoid, just general awareness of my surroundings. I know there's not much I can do if someone is determined to hurt me, and I've been robbed a couple of times and was mugged at gunpoint once. But in 99% of cases, people aren't looking to do you any bodily harm. And I find there's nothing to be gained from being paranoid. Most people are basically good and decent, and if you shut yourself off from the world out of fear, imagine what you'd miss out on!
 

abc

Banned
I've been robbed a couple of times and was mugged at gunpoint once.
Boy!

I'm fortunate enough I've never been involved in any close encounter with such questionable characters, even though I've alway lived in big cities.

Property issues? Yes. I lost a few items. But always when I wasn't there.

Hope it stays that way.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I carry pepper spray when I'm in the woods running on the trail. I have it in a little hand holder that straps across my palm. I live in Massachusetts, so had to get a permit to carry in order to buy, own, use, or carry the stuff. I'm legal!
 

snow addict

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
We used to have a Great Dane when I was younger, lived with my parents and was doing things like that - running or cycling after darkness. I never felt threatened because I knew my dog was there and if someone tried to attack me the person would be very lucky to survive - the impact force if Great Dane jumps on you in attack mode is over one ton, this kind dog doesn't even need to use its teeth, it can crush with its own weight, and the instinct is superb both for protecting a person and property, letting in but not letting out. If a friend comes to the house it would be quite happy to see him and greet him, but if you live him alone in a room to bring tea, the dog would sit by the door and if the person tries to move it will growl to show that he's being watched and better sit still until the owner comes back. Our dog wasn't even trained apart from trivial things like bringing slippers or newspapers. And apart from having a strong "protect" mode it was a real teddy bear. It's a shame this breed is slowly disappearing as people think its eats too much or needs a garden - which it doesn't at all, but a long walk/run in a park or through woods will keep it both happy and healthy.
 
Being alert is the first place to start. Those of you who ride, hike, camp, and bike alone, you are brave. Pepper spray makes sense if it's easy to reach, I would never want an assailant to use it against me!

I grew up in NYC and started riding public buses home to school in 5th grade. I was often followed and learned to ditch these men in grocery stores (which are small and have narrow ailes). Years later in my early 20s, I was walking home from a doctor's office in a residential neighborhood in Cambridge MA in the middle of the work day. No one was around but I noticed a man following me. So I crossed the street. He crossed. I crossed again. He crossed. You get the idea. I finally made it to a more populated area and lost him.

I worry about my daughters as they have grown up in the country. My oldest daughter just started college this weekend in Portland ME where there are plenty of drunks and street folks right near her school which is downtown. She swears she's aware but I still worry a little.... She's so young and pretty!

I am less adventurous than I used to be, in part because so many children and clients depend on me. At least that's what I blame the cautiousness on! I think the riskiest thing I do is practice law as a divorce lawyer where emotions run high. Whenever I'm involved in a domestic violence or high conflict custody case, I am keenly aware of my safety. Years ago I had threatening phone calls that were traced to a phone booth near the husband's residence. Nervewracking, especially because I work alone at my office and anyone could look up my residence at the local Registry of Deeds (now on line).
 

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