This has been making the rounds on Facebook, so I thought I'd share it here:
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Questions I Have For People Who Go Skiing [funny]
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climbingbetty
Angel Diva
I disagree. I know my butt looks damn fine in a pair of ski pants.
The part about kids running around like rodents.... might be the only part that has some validity.
snow addict
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is quite funny too.
climbingbetty
Angel Diva
"What's French for apres ski?"
karrie lou
Certified Ski Diva
It's suddenly occurred to me that I'm the person in the Whine About it Video who tells everyone they are going skiing!
OMG nobody else is excited about it like I am....you're the only ones who understand!!
OMG nobody else is excited about it like I am....you're the only ones who understand!!
Fluffy Kitty
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So, I've been thinking about this seriously (why?) all week, the bit about skiing being squats, because he is actually on to something. I've been watching a lot of "what's your level" videos lately, and noticed that how far one squats seems to be proportional to one's level. Beginners keep their legs more or less straight. Intermediates bend some during the turns. Advanceds keep their legs bent more or less all the time. Experts and racers have their knees practically touching their chests during turns. I realize this depends on the terrain and turn radius, but it might be a proxy measure of one's skiing ability? Or is it that skiing ability depends primarily on leg strength?
climbingbetty
Angel Diva
Interesting observation, but I think its too simplistic. For one, the correct form for a squat and and your stance in skis is quite different. Good technique in a squat involves reaching back with your butt, keeping your shins almost vertical through the whole range of motion. It also involves maximum angulation at the knee and hip joint, with more minimal angles achieved at the ankle. In skiing, your ankle is the most important joint. Flexion at the knee and hip should match, not exceed angulation of the angle.
Also, the kinetics are different. ATS teaches "active weight transfer" via long leg-short-leg in order to achieve desired edge angles. This seems to be achieved mostly through eccentric muscle contraction, whereas a squat, is usually a concentric contraction, unless you are doing it pylometrically. More so than just strength, skiing ability would depend on neuromotor learning through skill acquisition, certainly more so in the beginner to intermediate levels. Beyond that stage, I think it depends more on power than just raw strength. The difference is that power is the amount of strength that can be applied with a certain time frame. This involves training the central nervous for maximum muscle recruitment not just the strength of those muscle fibers.
surfsnowgirl
Banned
Mine too. As an instructor I will get free rental equipment and my home mountain has 3 pairs of tele skis so I might try it one day. It might just be one run cause I think it might be too much work for me but I want to try one day.
climbingbetty
Angel Diva
Fluffy Kitty
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Thank you for breaking it down, and good point about the ankle angle! I'll need to observe some more, including "real life" folks; I guess I was thinking someone who didn't have all the mechanics down wouldn't be able to "squat" and continue making it down the hill. So, knee-bending is not a technique, but can reflect overall ease, confidence, balance, and/or strength, kind of a (simplistic) self-evaluation tool.
It might also just be that I have an aesthetic preference for certain postures that look "dynamic" to me, but aren't necessarily, like how some people just prefer to see people with their skis close together, or the opposite.
Or that I'm spending too much time watching videos and not enough time on snow! Overthinking again.
climbingbetty
Angel Diva
I can tell you from teaching beginners last season that there is effective knee-bending and ineffective knee-bending. For instance, the classic beginner mistake of trying to stop, so they bend their knees until their butt is nearly resting on the tails of their skis. That is technically a 'squat' but it is hardly an effective one!
The above picture is what a "full" squat is, some call this a deep knee bend. But this is hardly an effective skiing posture. As opposed to this (the picture on the right).
And here's a good example of the how the edges are engaged through use of 'long-leg, short-leg' where the outside/downhill ski actually straightens and assumes less of a knee bend.
litterbug
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ah, but after a season on telemark skis, there's nothing you can't do! And that's after a season as a mediocre telemarketer relying solely on existing strength and athletic ability, mostly on groomed slopes, with just barely enough balance and sense of security on the snow to drop my back knee to get my weight distributed between the skis much at all.
But oh, how I loved the sensation of swooping down wide empty blues. I do love the feeling of alpine skiing's movements, but it just doesn't have the dance-y feel of telemarking.
More power to ya sista! Even if I wanted to learn I don't think I've seen telemark instructors at my local hill, although a telemarker friend would help me out I'm sure. I wonder if tele instructors are in demand at the bigger mountains?
Fluffy Kitty
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Here are some screen shots, from Jessica Lindell-Vikarby's winning Giant Slalom run at Beaver Creek in 2013, which illustrate my little observation as well as @climbingbetty's great explanations above. (From YouTube; search for jbtvAcGiCxI for the whole video.)
This is what Lindell-Vikarby looks like at the peak of her turn.
Her inside knee is almost fully folded and is pushing against her chest. Her outside knee is straighter, although it is still pretty bent. It looks like she is in the back seat, but she is not. As you can see in the next shot, her ankles are articulated far forward. Her torso is folded forward and her arms are held forward, too. So, her center of gravity is still over the feet, if not ahead of them.
And here's a shot that really gets me. This is in the middle of her "transition" between turns. In other words, this is her "traversing" for a split second.
I think it's safe to say that, for most of us, this is how far we squat at the peak of a hard turn. This is how far we go down when we squat, and this is how far she goes up!
And now I understand why "skier's throne" is such an important exercise; maybe I'll start doing it... next off-season. Not that I aspire to be a GS racer, but something to think about.
Again, knee angle alone is not a measure of anything, but this is some serious "squatting". So, @mustski, there is nothing shameful about being accused of squatting!
@SheSki and @litterbug, I'll have to wait to watch telemark videos. My knees are shot just looking at these...
This is what Lindell-Vikarby looks like at the peak of her turn.
Her inside knee is almost fully folded and is pushing against her chest. Her outside knee is straighter, although it is still pretty bent. It looks like she is in the back seat, but she is not. As you can see in the next shot, her ankles are articulated far forward. Her torso is folded forward and her arms are held forward, too. So, her center of gravity is still over the feet, if not ahead of them.
And here's a shot that really gets me. This is in the middle of her "transition" between turns. In other words, this is her "traversing" for a split second.
I think it's safe to say that, for most of us, this is how far we squat at the peak of a hard turn. This is how far we go down when we squat, and this is how far she goes up!
And now I understand why "skier's throne" is such an important exercise; maybe I'll start doing it... next off-season. Not that I aspire to be a GS racer, but something to think about.Again, knee angle alone is not a measure of anything, but this is some serious "squatting". So, @mustski, there is nothing shameful about being accused of squatting!
@SheSki and @litterbug, I'll have to wait to watch telemark videos. My knees are shot just looking at these...
marzNC
Angel Diva
I've leave the analysis about squats during skiing to instructors, but can say that doing deep squats and walking lunges on dry land is good ski conditioning. Someone who can do a lot is probably going to be able to enjoy a longer ski day than someone who finds two sets of 10 takes a lot of effort. Having started doing walking lunges with dumb bells this fall after a few years of deliberate ski conditioning in the pre-season, I know that it will make a difference during ski season.
Wall sits are good too.
climbingbetty
Angel Diva
Those are great exercises! I suppose my original point was that just doing back squats to train strength for ski is probably not the most optimal use of training time. Wall sits don't train absolute strength as much as they train lactate threshold.
Most of couldn't ski as dynamically as Jessica because our quads would flame out two turns in. She's also got some serious centrifugal forces she is able to push against in those turns that allow her to move her center of mass outside of the frame of her skis. This is also highly related to her speed, probably more so than her absolute strength.
