Question on realistic distance training

[Severine]

I have a question for those more experienced runners out there. I am planning on continuing my training and barring any future illness derailments, I should be able to finish the couch to 5K in the next 3-4 weeks. That will get me up to 3.1 miles. It looks like on April 3, 2010 there will be a quarter marathon (6.55 miles) nearby. Is it realistic to expect to be able to train for this if I continue treadmill running throughout the winter 3x a week? I'd have over 5.5 months to train for this. It doesn't seem crazy but I've had such a difficult time meeting what should be realistic goals lately that I don't want to aim too too high, KWIM?

I already was planning on a 2-mile race for March 20th and a 5-mile race in August 2010.

Any suggestions on where to go once I finish the couch to 5K for a training plan would also be helpful.

 

[tcarey]

This is plenty of time to train for this race.I would however maybe add a day or 2 of running to your plan.One of those runs should be a longer run.Try going for 3.5 miles then gradually add on to that as you gain endurance.There should be plenty of information on the Cool Running site.Just don't add alot of miles all at once.10% per week(of total milage) is the general rule of thumb.In 5 months you should be able to complete 6+ miles.

Happy running!

T

 

[altagirl]

That doesn't sound unrealistic to me at all. And I'm sure you can find some 10K training programs out there to follow up after your couch to 5K one is done.

Just remember that the biggest thing is to listen to your body and recognize the differences between good sore and bad sore, if you know what I mean. I'm not doing much running anymore, but with skating, it's the same thing. My coach comes up with a plan for me for training on the ice and associated weight training. And if I'm feeling too sore or tired (not recovering in time) you change the plan to match what your body is responding well to. (i.e. you want to be tired and maybe have some muscle soreness after a good workout, but you don't want to feel crippled or keep doing that so that you're feeling weaker and more tired every day. If your training plan says rest day and you come back after that and are still tired/sore, you need like an active rest day, not another training day. Don't just keep at it because the schedule tells you to.

 

[Severine]

This is plenty of time to train for this race.I would however maybe add a day or 2 of running to your plan.One of those runs should be a longer run.Try going for 3.5 miles then gradually add on to that as you gain endurance.There should be plenty of information on the Cool Running site.Just don't add alot of miles all at once.10% per week(of total milage) is the general rule of thumb.In 5 months you should be able to complete 6+ miles.

Happy running!

T

The reason why I said 3x a week is because the cool running C25K plan says you shouldn't do more than that for your first year of running or you run the risk of hurting yourself. Since I have not been consistently running for a year yet, I wondered about doing too much. Though I guess 4x a week one week and 3x the next would probably be a safe mix--no more than every other day?

altagirl - bad sore is why I haven't been running consistently... it's a double-edged sword. Backed off because of my knee, gained weight, and now that weight is making it harder to run and is harder on my knee. Vicious cycle but I'm working on it!

Now what I need is a good plan for strength on in-between days. I keep saying that but I need to sit down and come up with a blow-by-blow plan or I won't stick with it.

 

[itri]

Totally doable. I did my first half-marathon using a 12 week beginner program, and I was only running 3 miles most of the time (I think I had run 5 once or twice).

I really like Hal Higdon's programs. They're realistic and flexible. If you do a 10k program and add a couple of weeks to get an extra mile or two on to the long run for it, I think you'll be totally fine.

 

[tcarey]

As Altagirl says listen to your body.Then there is always.......

https://www.crossfit.com/cf-affiliates/

Click on the left under Ct and see if there is an affiliate near you!

T

 

[Severine]

Thanks, itri, for that site! Great information there--even helps answer some of my "what do I do in-between?" questions! :D

So...do I pull the trigger? Register now? I've missed entirely 2 races that I have registered for because of unplanned derailments that left me unable to train. However, I know having a goal really helps keep me focused.

Decisions, decisions...

 

[Robyn]

Sev, I really do think you can do this. I am doing basically the alternating 3x and 4x per week plan (excepting the disaster that was the last 2 weeks) and it works pretty well for me. On occasion I do run back to back days but I always make sure the second day is a planned shorter/easier run and I try not to focus on pace. For example, this week will be run M,W,TH,S with Pilates on T and rest on F. I know that Saturday will be my long run of the week as it will be with a running group. Thursday will be an easy day. I'm regularly running 3+ miles per outing with one long (which is increasing, last long run was 4.36ish) and the easy day is usually 2.5ish. Because I try very hard to run outdoors my mileage is weird due to the routes I like to take.

I'm not training for any specific race right now, just trying to get my mileage up so that next summer's training isn't as tough. Eventual goals next spring summer are a 10k, a sprint tri, an olympic tri and a half-marathon in the fall.

 

[Severine]

Thank you for your input, Robyn. That helps!

I was looking over the novice 5k plan on that site itri posted and it starts right about where I'm at right now, so I think I'll finish up that way and continue on with the 10K plan right after that. That'll be 16 weeks (about 4 months), which will leave me with 1.5 months to pick up that little bit of extra and/or some leeway in case of another bad cold. I'd really like to spend that last month running outside but it'll depend--March is a crapshoot as far as weather goes and I'll admit that I don't enjoy running in snow/cold rain. :D I definitely need hill-work though. The route for the quarter marathon is quite hilly; lots of ups and downs. I've biked it before.

That said, I did 20 consecutive min tonight on the treadmill for 1.72 miles. It's a start... (And yes, I know I said no back-to-back running but what happened yesterday morning could hardly be called running and it has been 36 hours between. )

tcarey - The closest Cross Fit is nearly 30 min away. Thanks for the suggestion though! I'm sure I can come up with a plan that works with my current gym.

 

[Pequenita]

Severine, it's completely do-able. Hal Higdon's training programs are great...and he's a ski writer, to boot! Another alternative, which can be tailored to you, specifically, is Smartcoach on Runnersworld.com.

Pull the trigger, register, and that will motivate you to be diligent in the training. I think the toughest part of what you're aiming to accomplish is that you'll likely have to do much of your training indoors. With respect to the running 3x a week thing, my opinion is that it's not the number runs per week that affects likelihood of injuries, but rather, the increase in mileage. Like tcarey wrote, the common rule is to increase weekly mileage by no more than 10%, and there's also usually a drop back week every 4(?) weeks or so. So, in my opinion, if it turns out that your Wednesday run is supposed to be 4 miles, but you're only allowed 30 minutes on the treadmill on the gym and are running 10 minute miles, then find a way to work that mile into another workout that week. I think most beginner 10K-ish programs have the "maintenance" distances somewhere from 2-4 miles. I don't think moving a mile from the 4 mile workout to a 2 mile workout is a huge deal when one's goal for a particular race is to complete it.

Also, another thing to keep in mind is that treadmills tend to be a softer surface to run on than asphalt, so there may be an adjustment period as you move from indoors to outdoors. Since it sounds like you had knee issues in the past, this is just something to take note of.

Are you doing a 5K to wrap up the 5K training? I would recommend it if you aren't already planning on it. Then, somewhere in the middle of the 6.55 training, I'd do another 5K so you can see how much you've improved - that's usually a huge motivator. It'll also provide a guage for how you may do in the 6.55. A really interesting tool to estimate your potential is the McMillan calculator.

FWIW, I was so excited after running my first 5K that I immediately signed up for a 10K. About an hour later, when the adrenaline wore off, I was like, holy crap, I have to run twice that distance, how am I ever going to do that? We've all been in your shoes at some point...good luck!

 

[Severine]

Thanks for the added info, Pequenita!

Unfortunately, we're just about out of running season here in the NE. It's been around 40 degrees the last few days. There are a couple 5Ks coming up in November but I'm not sure if I'm ready for them yet, and we have potential scheduling conflicts. I'm still hoping to sign up for one but it's hard to find one close enough by. Then after that, nothing til March. I plan on doing my soon-to-be traditional 2-mile Shamrock Run on March 21st, but that's about as early as it gets. Maybe one week earlier than that; the quarter marathon is April 3rd so it's pretty close.

Luckily, the gym where I go has no time limits on the machines. I've been known to hog the treadmill for almost an hour before so it will not be a problem to go that long or longer. That was a huge selling point when I signed up with them! Using the Smart Coach on runnersworld.com, I should wrap up training for a 12K (I put in 12K since I will have to run more than a 10K) on Feb 7th, which leaves me nearly 2 months of leeway and time to get outdoors as well as get used to hills. This is a hilly course. Luckily, I live in a hilly area. :D Running outside in the winter is not exactly my ideal but I will do my best. At least if I have the distance training by March, I'm hoping a month of acclimating myself to running on asphalt and hills will be enough.

So it's more weekly mileage than number of times a week? Even with the 3x a week running (which both training plans I've looked at for novices limit it at such) there are other days for cross-training and/or walking or walk/run, so it seems completely do-able. Just need to get my butt out there regularly is all! If you count my race on Sunday that I only ran half of and the 20 min on the elliptical that I managed 1.85 miles, then I've already run 4 times this week. I don't count the elliptical in the same category though as it's much easier and no-impact. I'm planning on a run tomorrow, hoping to hit that 2 miles baseline for Smart Coach's plan that I'm starting next week.

I did sign up for the race already. Nervous but excited. I just need to remain excited so I can stick to it and keep motivated!

 

[Pequenita]

I did sign up for the race already. Nervous but excited. I just need to remain excited so I can stick to it and keep motivated!

Yay!

You nailed it on the head: training is about discipline (which I completely lacked this summer!). It's about going out there and doing the short runs even though you already know you can do that distance. One of the most rewarding things for me as I was getting started was just being able to go half a mile farther than I previously had. I kept diligent notes about the weather, distance, route, how I felt, etc. It's pretty amazing how well you get to know your body.

I do think that it's mileage, and not number of runs per week, that affects injuries. For instance, whenever I've had a running related injury treated, the MD or PT asks how many miles, not how many times a week. I've also never been asked for how long I have been running (to dispel the "newbies should run only every other" day statement). That being said, if someone can give me a good reason as to why it's better for someone new to running to run 12 miles over Mon, Wed, and Fri rather than Mon, Tues, Thurs, and Sat, I'm open to changing my opinion!

I agree with you that the elliptical isn't the same as running. My physical therapist mentioned something about how she needed to be on it longer than if she were using a treadmill, to get the same quality workout. I thought it was a helpful tool for rehab after knee surgery, but in the long run, I became concerned about my ankles atrophying because to me, they don't seem to move much on an elliptical, and I felt that the stance/placement for my feet was too wide. Who knows. That's just my experience.

 

[Severine]

Discipline is so hard! I know that I could really benefit from some 5Ks in between now and the 1/4 marathon because of that... But so far, so good! Did my 2 miles (run consecutively!) this AM! And I'm considering going out for a rail-trail bike ride this afternoon...haven't been on my bike yet this season because my knee was so bad back in spring/summer. :D

Maybe the thoughts on spacing the days out has more to do with soreness as you progress? Regardless, I can see what you're saying about weekly miles.

Elliptical was cool in the beginning when I started running again because it helped strengthen my knee again but it's incredibly boring for me. I'll do it from time to time now but it's not my favorite. It's just too easy.

So here we go... Monday is the official start of the 16-week training plan. It's going to go by so fast!

 

[Severine]

I have another question on this. The Smart Coach is recommending a 1-2 mile jump in running per week in the first few weeks. So, for example, the runs this week are 2 miles, 2 miles, 3 miles. Next week is 2 miles, 3 miles, 4 miles. Am I the only one who feels this is a lot? The Couch to 5K plan involves a jump of approximately 5 minutes per run in the last few weeks; this is a 12-minute jump for each mile for me (yes, I'm slow).

Hubby feels that I'm balking about something about which I know nothing and that I should trust the plan. I feel like since it's a computer-generated plan, it can't be that intuitive and "know" what is good for my particular case. You have to remember that I'm not a tiny, fit runner; I'm a big girl.

In any case, I did 2 miles for each of my last 2 runs. And I signed up for 5K at the end of November to keep me motivated.

 

[dloveski]

Sev,

Kudos to you. I encourage you to keep at it. As a runner for over 30 years, I have a few opinions.

Patience is important, especially as you are early in the process of building your 'base' of running fitness.

Training plans are guidelines and help benchmark your progress and set goals. But listen to your body very carefully. As a young mom, you will have days where fatigue is a factor, and then back off with a walk/run.

Heart rate and breathing are important to monitor--if too high, back off. Once these are more stable during your core run on consecutive days, then you can build longer runs from there.

Mix it up in terms of routes and sprints followed by walking, treadmills, tracks, to learn what works for you and keep from getting bored.

Remember, it's a journey, not a destination, and running is something you do for you with eventual payback in feeling fitter, stronger. It's not a competition.

Keep at it. I have observed that the beginning runner is too often likely to quit because they push too hard and get overuse problems or get frustrated because they don't stick with it long enough to get the benefits (that include the buzz, feeling stronger). The benefits lag behind the training, but once you recognize them, then running becomes an essential part of your week.

Just getting out there is a huge deal. Don't weigh yourself down with too many expectations at first, just pound the dogs (my kids term for my running).

 

[Robyn]

The general rule of thumb that I've heard and adhere to is to increase total mileage by approximately 10% per week so I tend to agree that this is a large jump. It's taking you from 7 miles one week to 9 miles the next which may, especially with your history of injuries be a bit much. If I were you I would do a 2, 2 and 4 next week and the week after do 2, 3, 4 etc. But I am no expert for sure.

 

[itri]

The smart coach tends to spit out some crazy things...I've seen it in my online running group. I tend to agree, that for you in particular, with your injury history, I'd stick closer to C25k. You've got *plenty* of time to work up, there's no need to rush it.

 

[Severine]

Thank you, ladies! I had always heard the 10% rule, too, so I was surprised to see that. Heck, with the Smart Coach plan, every long run day goes up by a mile a week, but the middle of the week run goes up by a mile, too, til I get far enough in that that day becomes tempo and speedwork days (that'll be interesting on the treadmill). By the week of Christmas, my long run is supposed to be 7 miles on that plan, which is mind-boggling since I'm training for a 6.55-mile race.

In any case, I will listen to my body more and take it a little slower. I definitely do not want to reinjure myself. Even though my knee is tolerating, it's still feeling a bit weak. I really need to get on that strength training, too, but I always forget about it. I may also switch over to that other training plan that you recommended, Gaye--it seems to not be as crazy.

 

[skipink]

Hi Severine. It is really tough to start something new and make it part of who you are. It sounds like you are doing a great job though.

I'm pretty new to skiing but a long time runner, 30 + years. I started running again seriously again about a year and a half ago after running only sporatically for the last 10 years.

Two things that have dramatically improved my running, one is being in a running program with other people and the other is cross training. This may be difficult in your area but at least find a buddy who will run with you one day a week at your pace or maybe even a little faster. Since you are on the treadmill, there may be someone at the gym you can match up with. I run outdoors year round even in single digits, but here in the SE we don't have to contend with frozen stuff on the ground as much as you do. Besides, as a distance (half marathoner) I would go stir crazy on the treadmill. Remember, there is never bad weather, just improper clothing!

The biggest thing that has helped me is coss training. I run 3-4 times a week, with 2 shorter easy runs, one intense tempo/intereval run and one very slow run at a pace usually 2 minutes slower than what I race. I suppliment that with a core/strength class two days a week. I have been going for more than a year now and I can't believe the difference it has made in both my running and skiing and the knee pain that I previously had is gone. Since it is ski season now, I do often skip a day of running and add that as a cross train day. I also ride my bike a lot on the weekends, sometimes in place of a run.

I agree it's the milage per week and not the number of days. That said, I ALWAYS have at least one day of total rest. Sometimes it is hard to resist going out when the weather is great but your body really needs that day of recovery and in the long run you will feel better and perform better. (It took a long time for me to learn this because I'm pretty pigheaded sometimes, but at 51, my body lets me know when it's had enough even if my brain can't figure it out!)

I noticed someone in another thread suggested ice for your knee. Do you do that regularly? Ice and stretching after a run are truely necessary for healing an injury.

Again, this worked for me and everyone has different needs. Any time you need a positive mental push, let me know!

 

[Severine]

The difficulty I find in training with another person is that I run at 5:30AM or 9:30/10PM; this is why I'm not outside. I live in a small city, but a city nonetheless, and not somewhere I'd want to be alone in the dark. I don't have a lot of flexibility in my schedule, unfortunately. So I try to have run buddies in other ways; I make myself accountable to my friends who run through Facebook. At least that keeps me going. And hopefully, by spring I can get outside more because I do hope to do the Hartford Half Marathon next October.

I was icing my knee when I restarted but it hasn't bothered me enough to do it lately. Thanks for the reminder, however. I've been taking glucosamine and even though I was skeptical at first, it appears to be making a difference.

I really need to get a core/strength program going. The gym where I go doesn't do any classes and for some reason, I'm terrified of looking like a fool trying to use the weights or weight machines. However, I can't seem to find the time at home so I will have to figure that out. My father-in-law is a personal trainer but not locally; I keep asking him to help me by showing me a good plan, but he's a busy guy and hasn't gotten around to it yet.

Thank you for the insight! It helps! I'm up to 2.5 miles now so I'm making some progress, albeit slowly.