Pin Binding Recommendations

[Tori_j]

Ladies!!
Just picked up a new pair of touring skis and need some bindings. The new skis are DPS Pagoda Tour 100s, so they are really nice and deserve a good binding. I want pin bindings (had shifts, won't do that to these skis) but can't figure out what to get. I ski a din of 7-7.5 with full gear.
I see the new Atk RT10 Evos look promising, but they're not discussed on any forums? Maybe too new?

I can ski aggressively, but am more cautious in the backcountry.

I see a lot of people say "easy transition" on bindings I have tried, but the worst part of my transition is getting my toe pins to line up and not snap shut prematurely.

What do you all like? Anything you've found the be easier to step into when transitioning?
TYIA

 

[Pequenita]

I've been in various forms of dynafits, but this weekend a brake spring broke, which I guess constitutes normal wear and tear. My boots have triangles where the holes are, so it's been pretty easy lining up and clicking in the toes. I'm with you, though; not sure which pin bindings are next.

 

[WaterGirl]

Currently in process of replacing my Dynafits with Marker Alpinist 10. Primarily because of the large binding delta (13mm difference). I tried the thickest B&D toe shim but still too high heel. The Alpinist is 2mm difference and a lighter binding.

If binding delta is an issue for you you may want to do some research on which models have less delta ….

if you need a visual for where your pin holes are on your boots just make a mark with a sharpie on the top of the toe in line with the holes so you can “see” where you should be lining up.

 

[Chuyi]

I ski G3 ion 10 inbounds. The lighter model is G3 Zed. G3 springs on the toe piece used to wear out quickly. But G3 seem to have fixed the problem. I haven't had problems in the past 2 years. They don't snap early. If the ski is not on a flat surface, you have to twist your leg to be at the same angle as the ski (which is a pain when your legs are bowed). The trick is to point the ski uphill then your foot will automatically be lined up. If you are in deep powder when touring, stick the tail of the ski in the powder with the tip in the air.

 

[KathrynC]

I have ATK Raider 13 Evos on my Elan Ripstick Tours. They are new this season and I haven't used them much yet - touring season here is usually March/April. So far I have no complaints. They are pretty easy to get into and I haven't had any problems with anything icing or sticking yet. They feel nice and smooth compared to my previous Dynafit Tech bindings - more like a downhill binding.

I bought the 13s because I couldn't get the 10s in the UK. The release setting on the 13s just about goes low enough for me, and my DIN is lower than yours.

You can buy an additional freeride insert with Raider Evos. This is part of the package if you buy the FreeRaider line, but can be added to anything in the Raider line as an extra for about 35g and a small amount of money extra. This increases the boot contact area and is supposed to make them feel smoother. I have this insert, and I haven't skied without it, so I can't comment on whether the smoothness I remarked on above is a factor of the binding or the insert.

 

[Verve]

One more vote for the ATK raider line. I used the ATK R12 on a borrowed pair and found it intuitive, skied well (on resort) and the option for the free ride spacer is nice. But as others have said, lots of good options for tech bindings out there now!

 

[elemmac]

What do you all like? Anything you've found the be easier to step into when transitioning?

I'm not really sure if this will be helpful information, but I'll throw it out there. I'm a very casual tourer. Minimal long climbs and days in the backcountry. I very much favor the downhill performance over lightweight gear. So, with that being said, I use the Marker Kingpins. They have changed the toe slightly over the past couple seasons, but I've always found them very easy to step into when transitioning. The Marker Alpinist has the same toe piece as the Kingpin, but has a pinned heel as well...so I feel like if a lazy downhill skier like myself can get into the Kingpins easily, the Alpinists are probably fairly easy in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Analisa]

I've been in various forms of dynafits, but this weekend a brake spring broke, which I guess constitutes normal wear and tear. My boots have triangles where the holes are, so it's been pretty easy lining up and clicking in the toes. I'm with you, though; not sure which pin bindings are next.

I had that same failure in my Radical ST 2s well after the warranty, and Dynafit sent me a replacement heel tower. I've also seen the piece on sale for $50-60 at backcountry specialty shops if you want something with a faster turn-around.

 

[Analisa]

@Tori_j - There are 2 big questions that'll help you land on the right binding:

1. Do you want them to meet DIN binding standards? Almost all touring bindings (except the ultra light race ones) have some DIN adjustability, but only some meet DIN tests. So for a DIN of 7, it releases within that force window, consistently, in all fall directions. A lot of bindings struggle with backwards, twisting falls (which take out ACLs) because the ski is flexed, which pushes pins deeper into the heel insert. Tech certified DIN bindings have more elastic travel in the heel to keep the heel piece's placement consistent as you flex & release the ski, and making it possible for the binding to release in more fall circumstances. DIN certified bindings tend to weigh 550g & up (Rotations, Ions, Kingpins, Vipecs, Tectons)

2. If you forego the weight of a DIN-cert binding, do you still want elastic travel? ET is those micro-movements in the boot where the binding can still adjust & stay engaged. This is helpful for aggressive skiing, variable conditions, and drops / airs. But I've also been in "fun" conditions where a couloir never softened, sideslipped 90% of it, and my friend's boot wiggled out of the toe piece halfway through. Do you ski a lot of stuff where it's critical your bindings stay on? The ATK Raider & G3 Zed have a lot of travel, Marker Alpinist has less, and the MTN Pure / Backland Pure has none.

I have 2 setups, and I put an older version of the Rotation on my heavier, mid-winter, powder-oriented setup. I'm doing 4-5k max on these, sometimes they go into the resort for a 50/50 day, the skis are already a little heavy, so what's another 200g. They also have a 10 year warranty. For my lighter spring setup, I went with an ATK Raider so that I still had a binding with a lot of features, but cut a lot of weight for big vert days.

Some people also have strong feelings about riser height, or they want a wider toepiece for better power transfer on wide skis, or they want a lot of binding adjustability if they share skis or sell gear often. But to me, that's small potatoes compared to the safety & release aspects.

 

[WaterGirl]

@Analisa thoughts on what the delta is on the ATK Raider?

 

[Analisa]

@Analisa thoughts on what the delta is on the ATK Raider?

Not sure, I’ve never really been sensitive to it across bindings

 

[WaterGirl]

Not sure, I’ve never really been sensitive to it across bindings

then you are lucky ;) I would need to double shim my dynafit to get to what I need, hence the Marker Alpinist which is +2mm. The Dynafits are +13-15mm, from what I can find the ATK are around 11 -

FWIW for info on the different delta heights if anyone is interested..... https://skimo.co/pin-heights

 

[Tori_j]

@Tori_j - There are 2 big questions that'll help you land on the right binding:

1. Do you want them to meet DIN binding standards? Almost all touring bindings (except the ultra light race ones) have some DIN adjustability, but only some meet DIN tests. So for a DIN of 7, it releases within that force window, consistently, in all fall directions. A lot of bindings struggle with backwards, twisting falls (which take out ACLs) because the ski is flexed, which pushes pins deeper into the heel insert. Tech certified DIN bindings have more elastic travel in the heel to keep the heel piece's placement consistent as you flex & release the ski, and making it possible for the binding to release in more fall circumstances. DIN certified bindings tend to weigh 550g & up (Rotations, Ions, Kingpins, Vipecs, Tectons)

2. If you forego the weight of a DIN-cert binding, do you still want elastic travel? ET is those micro-movements in the boot where the binding can still adjust & stay engaged. This is helpful for aggressive skiing, variable conditions, and drops / airs. But I've also been in "fun" conditions where a couloir never softened, sideslipped 90% of it, and my friend's boot wiggled out of the toe piece halfway through. Do you ski a lot of stuff where it's critical your bindings stay on? The ATK Raider & G3 Zed have a lot of travel, Marker Alpinist has less, and the MTN Pure / Backland Pure has none.

I have 2 setups, and I put an older version of the Rotation on my heavier, mid-winter, powder-oriented setup. I'm doing 4-5k max on these, sometimes they go into the resort for a 50/50 day, the skis are already a little heavy, so what's another 200g. They also have a 10 year warranty. For my lighter spring setup, I went with an ATK Raider so that I still had a binding with a lot of features, but cut a lot of weight for big vert days.

Some people also have strong feelings about riser height, or they want a wider toepiece for better power transfer on wide skis, or they want a lot of binding adjustability if they share skis or sell gear often. But to me, that's small potatoes compared to the safety & release aspects.

This setup I'm definitely prioritizing weight, but I still want something secure and that can handle some jumps, icy stuff and powder. That's the usual sketchy stuff I run into. Some of the tours I'm looking to hit later this season do have some no fall zones, where I would need my skis to stay on, but I kinda hope that my gear can hold up to anything. And I'm hoping to have these for a few years and be able to progress my confidence in the backcountry to skiing bigger things like I do inbounds, but I also intend to do much longer tours. And given the limited selection of din certified, I've mostly been looking at the non-dins.

Am I understanding correctly that the elastic travel makes you more likely to slip out when you're purposely putting pressure on your bindings in an unexpected way (such a slide slipping a coulouir)?

 

[Analisa]

This setup I'm definitely prioritizing weight, but I still want something secure and that can handle some jumps, icy stuff and powder. That's the usual sketchy stuff I run into. Some of the tours I'm looking to hit later this season do have some no fall zones, where I would need my skis to stay on, but I kinda hope that my gear can hold up to anything. And I'm hoping to have these for a few years and be able to progress my confidence in the backcountry to skiing bigger things like I do inbounds, but I also intend to do much longer tours. And given the limited selection of din certified, I've mostly been looking at the non-dins.

Am I understanding correctly that the elastic travel makes you more likely to slip out when you're purposely putting pressure on your bindings in an unexpected way (such a slide slipping a coulouir)?

Ah - opposite, elastic travel improves retention. If your boot makes micro-movements, the travel creates tolerance for it & adjusts to it.

 

[KathrynC]

Ah - opposite, elastic travel improves retention. If your boot makes micro-movements, the travel creates tolerance for it & adjusts to it.

I was just popping on to say the same thing. Essentially, if your boots get shunted forward or back in the bindings when you hit a bump or whatever, the elastic travel allows the bindings to go with them a bit and absorb the jolt rather than spilling you out.

Lack of elastic travel is why older pin bindings feel so chattery, and also why some people cranky the release setting right up on them. Elastic travel should make this unnecessary.

 

[Tori_j]

Ah - opposite, elastic travel improves retention. If your boot makes micro-movements, the travel creates tolerance for it & adjusts to it.

Okay great! That makes sense. I was hoping I misunderstood.

I would prefer the elastic travel since it helps with variable conditions. I've found myself hitting these rollers on the way out of a tour that I do often and I'm always wondering if I get a little too much air, will my bindings stay on (older dynafits)? So I think I will like the elastic travel and the weight addition feels proportional to the benefits. Knock on wood I've yet to suffer a major injury due to failure to release (I had one close call inbounds last year, because the shop had my forward pressure set wildly incorrectly on new look pivots) but I have had some brutal injuries where my skis released when they weren't supposed to, so I tend to lean towards things that keep them on instead.

I'm kinda between the Raider 11 Evo FT and the RT-10 Evo. Raider 11 has 14mm of travel and the 10 has 12mm of travel.

Do you have a sense of how much of a difference the 2mm of travel would make?

The 10 is about 100g lighter, but lacks toe piece adjustment and has 2mm less of elastic travel.

 

[Analisa]

@Tori_j - not a ton. A standard inbound binding has 30mm of toe elasticity / 16 of heel. Sendy folks looking for more upgrade to a Pivot for 45 toe / 19 heel. They're delivering a more substantial difference in order to consider themselves a differentiated product.

The fixed vs. adjustable vertical DINs is the bigger difference between the Raider & RT10. Lateral DINs allow release in twisting falls that tend to cause ligament injuries or tib-fib spiral fractures. Vertical DINs still correlate to injury, but I'm not well versed at all in terms of which ones or their severity. So I personally like adjustable vertical DINs to protect myself from my own ignorance. But while I don't know what the fixed DIN is fixed at, I do think it'll be closer if you sit in the middle of the DIN range. (I.e., as a 5 DIN, I'm in the range for the lateral DIN on both the RT10 [5-10] and the RT8 [3-8], but I think the vertical DIN would be a better match on the latter where I'm in the middle of that range. But I can't remember where I read that & can't find it, so definitely don't quote me on that)

 

[arbusch]

I have a pair of atk crest bindings on a pair skis. I am on my second season with these bindings. They have the same toe piece as the rt10. I find the toe piece clicks into your boots easier than the dynafit speeds. I like how light these bindings are and I haven't needed more than the 3 levels for climbing. I was waffling between the rt and crest. It all depends on how many heel risers you want and the additional features of the heel you would like. Others have provided more information around that. I have skied them on a wide variety of terrain and conditions (powder, open bowls, tight trees, wind buff, icy, bumpy out tracks). They don't seem as harsh as my dynafit speeds. I prefer a lighter simple setup in the backcountry.

Telemark Pyrenees has a nice chart comparing all the atk bindings- https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/atk-2024-binding-specifications

 

[spoicegurl]

Currently in process of replacing my Dynafits with Marker Alpinist 10. Primarily because of the large binding delta (13mm difference). I tried the thickest B&D toe shim but still too high heel. The Alpinist is 2mm difference and a lighter binding.

If binding delta is an issue for you you may want to do some research on which models have less delta ….

if you need a visual for where your pin holes are on your boots just make a mark with a sharpie on the top of the toe in line with the holes so you can “see” where you should be lining up.

I have been using the alpinist 10 this season and am pleased with the quality to price ratio. My main gripe is the brakes, which can be super finicky but that is true for most tech bindings. Another thing to consider is you have to turn the heel piece to be able to use the second riser - I usually just use the first setting and don't go through that trouble. Paired with my hawx tour, they ski similarly to my alpine setup with hawx ultra and Amer strive bindings. The geometry lends to an intuitive ride