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New travel restrictions

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Heads up to any/all traveling by air from here on: new travel restrictions are now in place, most of which will make traveling to/from skiing even less wonderful than it already is:

**
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/us/27security.html

"Two foreign airlines, Air Canada and British Airways, disclosed the steps in notices on their Web sites. The airlines said the rules had been implemented by government security agencies including the T.S.A.

'Among other things,' the statement on Air Canada’s Web site read, 'during the final hour of flight customers must remain seated, will not be allowed to access carry-on baggage, or have personal belongings or other items on their laps.'

On its Web site, American Airlines said the T.S.A. had ordered new measures for flights departing from foreign locations to the United States, including mandatory screening of all passengers at airport gates during the boarding process. All carry-on items would be screened at security checkpoints and again at boarding, the airline said. It urged passengers to leave extra time for screening and boarding.

In effect, the restrictions mean that passengers on flights of 90 minutes or less would most likely not be able to leave their seats at all, since airlines do not allow passengers to walk around the cabin while a plane is climbing to its cruising altitude."

***

NBC Nightly News tonight interviewed a woman who apparently was not even allowed to keep reading a paperback book for the final flight hour.
 

Nadine_A

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
All this after Australia has relaxed their domestic checking procedures:eek:

I've checked Qantas (my airline to the States) and they haven't released any statements as yet. I'll just have to make sure I have heaps of time spare at checkin on the internal US flights.
 

itri

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Everything I've been reading is that this is most likely temporary. The exact TSA order implementing the above restrictions is, in fact, set to expire on December 30. See here. Admittedly, I have not read today's posts to the previously linked thread, as I've been out all day, but most experienced travelers seem to believe that this is a typical Homeland Security knee-jerk initial overreaction to the attempted bomber and will not last.
 

2ski2moro

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I just don't understand this at all.

There is a guy (whose own father thought he was enough of a terrorist to warn the US embassy) who makes an attempt and fails to blow up an airplane. The guy was on the watch list, but managed to fly into the US anyway, without ANY extra scrutiny.

In the meantime, in a knee-jerk (emphasis on jerk) reaction, the TSA is patting down little old ladies and stopping me from reading a book?
Unbelievable!

And some day, when you and I are relaxing slope side with an adult beverage, ask me about my incident at the Detroit Airport with Northwest Airlines.
 

itri

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Exactly, 2ski2moro. These "rules" don't help prevent anything. So you can't get up for the last hour of the flight? Ok, what's to stop the terrorist from setting off the explosion at 65 minutes out?

Not to pick on you, toughgirl, because your reaction is the reaction of most people who DON'T fly regularly, but these rules will NOT stop you from blowing up. Just like the liquids rules wouldn't really stop anyone from using a liquid explosive, if they were really determined to do so. What WOULD have stopped this attempt is more thorough screening of an individual who, while not on the no-fly list, was on a terrorism watch list. Not making the lives of every other traveler miserable.

Just another note, as well. I caught a glimpse of the evening news tonight where they were making it look like security lines were ridiculous and that there were horrible delays. From what I'm hearing, that's pretty much media hype, with the possible exception of a few of the major airports. Yeah, lines were ridiculous at airports today. Because it's one of the busiest traveling days of the year! Those lines you saw in the news clips were of the check-in counters, which have nothing whatsoever to do with security. And most of these new rules seem to apply only to international flights, with very little impact to domestic travel.
 

itri

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ok, after reading through today's posts to the thread I previously linked (which is now 54 pages :eek:), it seems that the restrictions have been mostly eased up already. As reported by the NY Times, it's now at the crew's discretion to allow items on laps and movement during the flight. However, Transport Canada (their version of the TSA) has kicked in some stupidity of their own, banning all carry-on items (with some exclusions, of course) for flights to the US. Apparently this is in response to their own understaffing which doesn't allow them to thoroughly search carry-on items in a timely fashion. :rolleyes: We'll see how long that one lasts, especially with the Olympics rapidly approaching.

I, for one, am flying back home tomorrow afternoon and am not planning on doing a darn thing different. I'll get to the airport a tiny bit early, but I'm flying out of a small airport (Ft Wayne) and I'm really not too worried about lines there.
 

PNWSkier

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't think it will do any good either.

Just wait til the first child has an "accident" b/c they cannot get up or an elderly person or pregnant woman does. Have you ever asked a child if they have to use the potty and they say no only to have an "emergency" 10 minutes later? Or a mom is forced to change their infant at the seat or make their infant sit in their feces. Big news story will happen and airlines will stop. Homeland Security is leaving it up to each airlines and they don't want the bad press either.
 

evaino

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
It is ridiculous for sure. Homeland security is all about the appearance of security - not about actual security. But the not getting up during the last hour of flight is just insane. Whoever came up with that one is either really stupid or thinks everyone else is. Or both.

One of the Canadian airlines - Westjet - has banned carryon luggage - only purses, diaper bags and laptop bags allowed. I'm assuming this means no boot bags! Keep in mind this is for flights to the US only. Flying anywhere else in the world is still not quite as silly - yet.

This easily tips the balance for me - ski vacation in western Canada vs Western US this year. Although the dollar would make it a nice time to go south.
 

Kano

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
So, been skiing, watching grandkids, struggling with back pain, not following news, here I sit watching a TiVo'd program that was interrupted by a news report about this terrorist thing...

Anyone else see the humor in this event? Or am I the only one who thinks a guy trying to cause an explosion in his underpants is more than a little bit silly?

How reporters are managing to keep a straight face while reporting this is beyond me! (or maybe I've just seen way too many episodes of South Park?)

Karen in Boise
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I'm traveling to Snowmass in a little over a week but I'm not concerned about how it will effect me.

I'll report back if its cumbersome, more so than usual.
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
I am just really starting to get fed up with flying in general. One more reason to move out west. ;)
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Long fed up here, especially after seeing what my BFF has to go through any time she travels by air, with 2 titanium hip prostheses, copious documentation (medical ID cards with her name, surgeon, type of prosthetic, date done, all issued by facility, credit-card-like).

For those who think this might be a TSA knee-jerk, remember this the next time you remove your shoes pre-security. Shoe removal was not routine prior to the "shoe-bomber."

My prediction? Carry-on will become total history. Just a matter of time. So those who are traveling by air to go skiing, enjoy your days of carry-on boot bags, because I'll put money and Vegas-odds on it being banned. Soon.

Ditto bringing cabin-aboard anything electronic, be it laptop, cell phone or iPod. Check it or don't go.
 

itri

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Yes, the shoe thing was a knee-jerk that stuck around, but look at the complete liquids ban and how quickly that was backed off from. And look how quickly the current restrictions were eased up. Some remnants may stick around, but most are already gone or on their way out.

I disagree that carry-ons and electronics on board will become a thing of the past. The business travelers won't stand for it, and they're the ones who are funding the air travel industry with their last minute, high dollar fares. The leisure travelers who are buying their tickets months in advance for low cost are pretty insignificant to the airlines, in all honesty. As it stands now, electronics aren't even covered liability-wise by the airlines if they are packed in checked luggage. And we already can't lock our luggage because of TSA regulations, so let's just put a big old banner on every suitcase that says "expensive electronic devices, ripe for the picking, HERE". I really don't see it happening. If such rules are put into play, business travelers are going to avoid traveling (and therefore paying the high fares they typically do) as much as possible. And with today's technology, that's not going to be as hard as it once might have been. If the airlines lose business travelers, they go under, simple as that.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
^^^Hopefully true!
However, consider the following:

1. Prepare for the pat-down. The TSA is requiring that boarding gate crews perform a pat-down of all passengers before boarding a flight and inspect each and every carry-on item before you sit down. Be prepared for this new rule and have your bags open and ready for checking.

2. Stick to the aisle seat. In-flight rules will be enforced more than ever, so mind your manners and pay close attention to the flight attendants and cabin crews. Airlines are enforcing the all-passengers-in-seats rule at least one hour before landing, so if you're prone to potty breaks be sure to choose an aisle seat so you can get to the bathroom before the seat restrictions go into place.

3. Dress in layers. Some airlines are asking passengers to remove anything from their laps during flight -- this includes blankets and pillows. Dress in layers so you can keep warm and add or remove layers during your flight.

4. Compact packing. Forget about shoving everything you can into your barely closeable carry-on. Some airlines, like Air Canada, are only allowing one carry-on per passenger and other airlines will be cracking down on size restrictions. Bottom line: If it can't fit in the overhead space or under the seat in front of you, it's not coming with you on the plane. We suggest throwing your essentials (a good book, medicine, cell phone, etc.) into one carry-on item and checking the rest.

5. Get cozy. New TSA restrictions mean more time at the airport, which means you'll have more time to wait. Bring a good book (or two), charge up your computers, iPods and portable DVD players, and get cozy at your gate or in the airport lounge.

6. 3-1-1 rule lives on. Now more than ever, the 3-1-1 rule will be strictly enforced. It's a simple formula: 3-ounce bottles only in a 1-gallon bag; one bag per passenger. If you break the 3-1-1 rule, you'll be pulled out of line and rescreened, so take extra care when packing your carry-on.

7. Early bird gets to the gate on time. Expect extra long lines and wait times at the airport. The TSA is suggesting passengers arrive for their flights at least two hours in advance, allowing sufficient time to get through security. TSA has also implemented random bag checks -- if you allow yourself extra time, you won't be rushed if you're pulled aside.

8. First flights out are usually the most on-time. If you can be flexible with your travel times and don't mind waking up before dawn, book the first flight out and enjoy shorter security lines and less traffic to and from the airport.

9. Use the Internet to your advantage. Check in online, and print your boarding passes and luggage tags prior to leaving for the airport. You'll save yourself money (many airlines are charging extra to check bags at the airport) and time.

10. Save money on snacks. Despite the rumors going around, you can still bring food and snacks with you onto your flight. Bring snacks from home and avoid the temptation to purchase higher priced items at the airport's bookstores and restaurants.

The new TSA rules are constantly changing as government officials work to ensure your safety. Check with your airline before your flight for any last-minute changes and visit news.cheapflights.com for up-to-date travel information.

(source: https://ca.sys-con.com/node/1231746)
 

toughgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Exactly, 2ski2moro. These "rules" don't help prevent anything. So you can't get up for the last hour of the flight? Ok, what's to stop the terrorist from setting off the explosion at 65 minutes out?

Not to pick on you, toughgirl, because your reaction is the reaction of most people who DON'T fly regularly, but these rules will NOT stop you from blowing up. Just like the liquids rules wouldn't really stop anyone from using a liquid explosive, if they were really determined to do so. What WOULD have stopped this attempt is more thorough screening of an individual who, while not on the no-fly list, was on a terrorism watch list. Not making the lives of every other traveler miserable.

Just another note, as well. I caught a glimpse of the evening news tonight where they were making it look like security lines were ridiculous and that there were horrible delays. From what I'm hearing, that's pretty much media hype, with the possible exception of a few of the major airports. Yeah, lines were ridiculous at airports today. Because it's one of the busiest traveling days of the year! Those lines you saw in the news clips were of the check-in counters, which have nothing whatsoever to do with security. And most of these new rules seem to apply only to international flights, with very little impact to domestic travel.


Who says I don't fly regularly. I guess i'm just the odd man out.. but I don't mind all the extra stuff if It makes me feel safer, whether its a false sense of security or not. Just how i feel.
 

2ski2moro

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I think that the biggest thing that can be done to help this is to get the bureaucrats and lawyers out of the way and let the people do what needs to be done without worrying about being sued.

This morning, I heard that the pilots will be allowed to implement the severe restrictions at their discretion.

I think the benefit is that the terrorists will never know with certainty which flights will be restricted. These terrorist organizations research their targets and rehearse their actions. Knowing the routine is critical to the terrorists' plans. Uncertainty and change will be a deterrent.

Itri and I are on the same page about the electronics, too. Mr. 2ski2moro travels frequently for business (in fact he has been on the Amsterdam to Detroit flight often).

I am of the belief that there are two types of luggage - carry-on and lost. There is NO WAY that he will ever check his computer in baggage. He has sensitive corporate information on it. Not to forget about the baggage handlers' antics, the TSA inspectors going through checked baggage, broken zippers, crushed luggage, the baggage claim conveyer belt damage and theft of bags from baggage claim.
 

Slidergirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
First, I'm with itri on this. I'm even a frequent reader of FlyerTalk, as it seems itri is also. I'm of the opinion that most of this "security" is nothing more than feel-good theater and a waste of my time. To be put through a dog-and-pony show by someone who had a choice between the job at TSA or McDonalds doesn't make me feel more secure. To have to walk through a machine that shows my body totally nude and my body parts distinguishable on a screen seen by someone behind a curtain (who knows if these people get their jollies by looking at nude people!!!) doesn't make me feel safer, just invaded. There are machines that can better find evidence of explosives than those currently in use, but our Government agency seem to only be able to act reactively, not proactively. I've flown to and from Tel Aviv a few times and the security folks at Ben-Gurion airport are true trained professionals. None of the security theater we see here. And, it doesn't take an inordinate amount of time to clear security there, either. No shoes off, no having to put the 3-1-1 bag in a bin. Remember when there was the potential bomber issue on the BA flights the other year? All carryons were banned for awhile on flights out of Heathrow, except for a book. That went away. I remember Phoenix airport having a hand-made shoe checker - it was one of the wands attached to a box. You put your shod feet up on the box and if it didn't "beep", you went on your way. Great idea, but they had to stop it because the DC-based management wanted people to have to be subjected to Lord-knows-what on the floors rather than use a device that worked just as well, if not better, than the X-ray.
The TSA was looking for a reason to ban powders, including cosmetics - now it has it's reason.
Gee, I guess I AM a little worked up at this. When we keep adding layers and layers of ineffective "security", and lose more and more of our freedom, the terrorists have indeed won. I'd rather "roll the dice" on a flight (where I'm actually less likely to be injured or die than if I drove my car to where I'm going) than surrender some of my personal freedom.
 

geargrrl

Angel Diva
anyone catch this Wall St Journal article about two weeks ago?

https://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703581204574599953475913542.html

As travelers get ready for holiday flights, they might want to skip tucking presents into their checked suitcases this year. That's because baggage theft is on the rise.

This year, Delta Air Lines Inc. baggage handlers were caught rifling through suitcases in the belly of airplanes in Hartford, Conn., pocketing laptops, cameras, iPods, GPS units, jewelry, watches and earrings, according to Lt. J. Paul Vance of the Connecticut State Police.

Authorities also broke up a ring of airline thieves in St. Louis who, according to Lambert Airport Police Chief Paul Mason, were targeting soldier's bags that were shipping off to war. Baggage handlers pulled soldiers' duffels off a conveyor belt in a tunnel, stashed loot and then picked it up later, taking it home under their coats or in backpacks. Among the stolen items recovered: laptops, electronic game systems, cameras, cigarettes, battery chargers, sunglasses and firearms.

Baggage-theft arrests have been made this year in cities around the world, from Dublin, Ireland, to Adelaide, Australia. In Phoenix, a couple was found with 1,000 pieces of stolen luggage and belongings piled floor-to-ceiling in their home. The pair had been lifting bags off carousels at the airport.

In Portland, Ore., Northwest Airlines baggage handlers were caught stealing items and posting them for sale on eBay right from a supervisor's airline-owned computer. Baggage theft reports are up nearly 50% this year, according to airport spokesman Steve Johnson. Portland airport police have received 195 reports of baggage theft this year through October, compared with 132 reports in the same period of 2008. At least 43 of the reports this year relate to the ring at Northwest, Mr. Johnson said.

In New York, police caught baggage handlers stealing items from bags and then switching destination tags so that the luggage would be lost. If the bag was reunited with owners, the circle of possible suspects who handled it had been expanded, covering the tracks of the thief.

View Full Image
MIDSEAT
Associated Press

A Phoenix couple allegedly stole luggage off carousels at the airport. Police found more than 1,000 items at their home.
MIDSEAT
MIDSEAT

Airlines say baggage theft is rare among the millions of passengers who fly each year, but law-enforcement officials say it has been growing significantly. "There's been a tremendous increase in the last five years. It's pretty bad—a lot is getting stolen every day," said a prosecutor in the Queens County district attorney's office, which handles airport theft cases in New York.

Authorities attribute an escalation to the sour economy and to tighter security around cargo, which historically has been a target for thieves. Passenger baggage is now easier pickings. In addition, cost-cutting at airlines and police departments has reduced patrols and enforcement, officials say.
Missing Golf Balls

Some thefts are small. Charles Petersen of Biddeford, Maine, had about 20 golf balls stolen from a locked travel case on a flight from Boston to Tampa. "It feels like they are doing this with impunity," he said.

And some thefts amount to grand larceny. Two Kennedy Airport baggage handlers working for AMR Corp.'s American Airlines were charged with stealing a bag of jewelry worth $280,000. One of the men was a crew chief.

For travelers, the sting of a theft is often followed by frustration with airlines and the Transportation Security Administration, which often are slow to respond to reports and in most cases deny any responsibility. Airline ticket rules—the "contract of carriage"—exclude liability for any valuables in luggage, such as computers, cameras, electronic equipment, jewelry, business documents, artwork or similar valuable items.

Amanda Slaver flew from Rochester, N.Y., to Las Vegas in February and found that her jewelry bag had been unzipped. The good stuff—gold, diamond and sapphire family heirlooms—had been taken and the plastic, glass and metal jewelry remained.

"It was devastating," she said. "Your trust is broken."

For the next seven months she argued with Delta over a $3,000 claim. The airline said it wasn't liable because its contract of carriage excludes valuables from the airline's responsibility. Delta offered her a $100 voucher toward a future ticket. "It seemed less like they wanted to help me and more that they just wanted me to go away," she said.
Avoiding Baggage Theft

Baggage theft hits many travelers. Here's how to protect yourself:

* Never put anything of value in checked luggage. Airlines don't cover it. Small, easily pocketed items are most at risk, from jewelry and electronics down to battery chargers and golf balls.
* If you can't carry valuables onboard, ship them separately. With shipping companies, you can insure your valuables and get tracking information.
* Don't rely on luggage locks. They are easily broken or bypassed.
* If you do find something stolen, report it immediately to the airline, to the TSA and to local airport police.
* Mark your bag with colorful ribbon or straps (that won't get caught in conveyor belts) so it can be spotted easily on a crowded carousel. That lessens the chances someone else will walk off with it, intentionally or by accident.

A Delta spokeswoman says the airline does offer compensation to customers "within the limits of our contract of carriage."

Vijay Dandapani, a hotel executive in New York, complained to both Continental Airlines Inc. and the TSA after a brand-new iPod was taken out of its carton and stolen from his bag traveling from Newark, N.J., to Mumbai. TSA closed his case saying it couldn't help him; Continental sent him a $100 travel voucher.

"You feel violated," he said.

Both airline workers and TSA screeners have access to checked luggage, and it's often impossible to tell who is responsible unless a thief is caught red-handed. Airlines say they try to avoid finger-pointing with TSA over blame. Law-enforcement officials say TSA thefts, though they got lots of attention in past years, account for a relatively small portion of all baggage theft and have been declining.

In 2005, TSA paid out more than $3 million in claims for theft and baggage damage, but by 2008, that dropped to $813,000. Through October this year, TSA has paid out only $446,000 in baggage claims, a spokeswoman said.
Adding Cameras

TSA has reduced baggage theft as it has moved from opening bags and searching by hand to running them through scanning machines on conveyor belts, limiting the number of bags handled by screeners. The agency says it has also added more surveillance cameras to baggage-screening areas.

A total of 330 TSA officers have been fired for theft since the agency's inception, a spokeswoman said.

Complaints filed with TSA about property losses—which include theft—have also dropped, down 26% this year through October compared with the same period of 2008.

Airlines say they look for patterns in theft claims filed by customers and work with police to catch thieves. Arrests in Portland, Hartford, St. Louis and New York all included Delta employees or contractors, for example, and Delta says that's because it initiated most of the investigations. In New York, for example, Delta and TSA planted a bag stuffed with electronics in the JFK baggage system and two men working together, one a TSA screener and the other a baggage handler, were videotaped swiping a computer and cellphone, then switching the luggage tags to help cover their tracks.

Since it's hard to pin down at which airport items were stolen, airport police chiefs have launched a new reporting system that tracks the itinerary of a stolen bag, alerts airports along the route and tries to spot patterns, says Chief Mason in St. Louis, who is also president of Airports Law Enforcement Agencies Network, an association of police chiefs. In its first six months, the system has already identified one airport that might be having a problem, he said.
Lost Or Stolen

Airlines don't report statistics on baggage theft, and often never know if a bag was simply lost or if it was stolen. Carriers say they do have surveillance cameras in some locations, and they do conduct spot checks at baggage carousels to match tags on bags with claim checks. Theft of an entire bag, while rare, they say, is most often traced back to someone stealing from a baggage-claim carousel, as with the Phoenix couple.

Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport has begun new random luggage checks and increased video camera surveillance and patrols in baggage-claim areas. Other airports say they patrol baggage areas, watch baggage handlers and sometimes send officers in civilian clothes to monitor activity in claim areas. But baggage theft hasn't been a high priority amid all the other airport security concerns.

It's the lack of responsibility for theft that leaves many customers fuming. Jack La Torre's daughter was rushing home to New York from graduate school at Stanford University in California with a medical condition affecting her hands. Since she couldn't carry anything, she checked her Mac Air laptop in her luggage. The computer never made it home.

Mr. La Torre, a retired New York Police Department lieutenant who now works at Columbia University, pressed Delta to check security tapes and to waive Delta's exclusion of liability because of his daughter's condition.

The airline apologized, but said the stolen item should have been transported by other means. "We do not feel that compensation is in order," Delta said.

"What sort of protection do we have for the consumer?" Mr. La Torre asks.
 

itri

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I apologize if I offended you toughgirl, but to be completely honest, you would be the first regular traveler that I've heard who has your opinion.

It's one thing for the once or twice a year travelers to be inconvenienced by losing another hour or two to security lines and losing more personal freedoms. It's something else entirely for those who have to travel weekly or even daily. That's a whole lot of wasted time and inconvenience for those people. Especially when the restrictions being put in place are primarily for show and really wouldn't do anything to stop any type of serious attack. And, as pointed out before, risks of highway travel are much higher and more dangerous than those of air travel.
 

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