Mountain Creek Segregates Skiers & Riders

[ski diva]

I know it sounds extreme, but there it is: Mountain Creek, a ski area in NJ, is combining its terrain parks in a larger space at the resort’s South Mountain area, a mile from the main base. It'll take up about a third of the resort's area, making it one of the largest terrain parks in the east. It'll even have its own lodge, lifts and facilities, separate from the rest of the resort. And here's a good thing: visitors who want to go on the most challenging portion of the playground will have to take a short course in terrain-park etiquette and safety.

So what do you think about this? I mean, I honestly don't love skiing with boarders -- make that irresponsible boarders -- so I don't think this is necessarily a bad idea. That said, what about families/couples who go there together, and one boards and the other doesn't? Does this preclude boarders from the rest of the resort's trails? And if one of them goes to the terrain park, won't that make meeting up more difficult?

I don't ski Mountain Creek, but I'm wondering if this is somethng other ski areas are going to start doing. Anyone have any insight on this?

 

[RachelV]

Is the park actually snowboarders-only? Skiers can use the park too, right?

When we skiied at Brighton in Utah I was all prepared to be annoyed by all the snowboarders, but despite the fact that I have probably never skiied anywhere with more snowboarders, they experience was totally fine. I've found that out west in general you get way less of they typical annoying stereotypical snowboarder stuff than you see here. Maybe just because there's more room for everyone to spread out?

Anyways, in general, it's not that I mind skiing with snowboarders, I mind skiing with angsty teenagers. It just so happens that they're more likely to be snowboarders.

 

[Jilly]

Tremblant tried a similar project last winter. The south side park is more extreme than the north side. So you needed a special pass to get into the park and in order to obtain said pass you needed a short course. Also a few $$'s more for the pass. It meant that only better park rats were in that park. It was better for them, spectators got to watch from the chair or the trail along side. The newbies got to use the other park without the experts flying by. My main thought was it will keep them in the park and out of my way on the slopes!!

 

[RachelV]

Here's a NYT article about the whole thing.

 

[skigirl]

Confused

I am a bit lost as to what you mean by "Segregates snowboarders and skiers"? I went to the Mountian Creek website and read nothing that indicates that snowboaders and skiers are "Segregated". They do require a
"Park Pass" for their expert terrain park. The pass costs $5 for the season. The terrain park is for both skiers and snowboarders. The resort has several terrian parks for both skiers and snowboarders that do not require a park pass. The main park is for Experts Only and it requires a Park Pass to try to keep out skiers and snowboarders that are not qualified to be in there. Other than that I don't see where anyone is segregated. The Park Pass seems to be more about Safety than Segregation. I may be wrong but it is not indicated on the Mountian Creek website.

 

[ski diva]

Okay, I'll 'fess up -- I (kind of) stole that from the the NY Times article. That's why I asked the question, "Does this preclude boarders from the rest of the resort's trails?" But I guess having an entirely separate area that's specifically for snowboarders and park rats does, in fact, keep them more or less apart from the rest of the resort. I mean, conventional skiers won't be there, that's for sure!

Actually, now that I look at the Times article again, it says "Skiers and Riders." I'll change the thread title to reflect that.

 

[Jilly]

Sounds like Mountain Creek is doing the same thing as Tremblant. Also these parks are expensive to maintain. They need alot more snow and for the 1/2 pipe a special groomer. So paying a little more and being alittle more knowledgable about safety is OK with me. Tremblants pass was about the same price. Not really a problem for most people, but the course part (and test!) kept the not so serious "rats" out of that park. I would have to check and see if the accident rate was less in the pay park then the free one. Might be an interesting stat.

 

[RachelV]

I would GLADLY take a quick course and pay for a park pass at Killington, if only to get them less crowded. On weekend afternoons the parks there are totally swamped. Our strategy is to fool areound in the park from 8-10am or so, before the teenagers wake up.

 

[Pequenita]

Drat. I was hoping the mountain closest to my parents was actually separating the men from the boys.

 

[abc]

"A third of the area"? If they're talking about the TOTAL area, that would mean the entire South Mountain area will be parks!

If it's only a third of South Mountain, it may or may not be big enough...

Hint: Mountain Creek is simply not that big!

 

[Native Vail Gal]

On separarting Skiers and snowboarders (yes....I used small letters on purpose!! :D ).......

One Word:

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[marta]

Hi all
To clarify, MC is dedicating all trails on both South and Bear peaks, and the South lodge to a terrain park. The South lodge will be revamped to appeal to teens, and all trails on both these peaks will become park trails. This is in an effort to segregate the park rats from leisure schussers, not really boarders vs skiers. All trails on Vernon & Granite peaks (including those previously dedicated to park features) will be open to everyone. The race trail will be relocated to either Zero G or Devil's Bit but it's unconfirmed which. Race kids will also get a new clubhouse/locker area I believe. And FYI, the old bubble lodge at Vernon is due to come down after this coming season.

Sigh, our beloved South and all of its small-resort Great Gorge era appeal will be gone, and dearly missed. But I have to say I do agree much of what's going on here. Segregating the park rats from trail cruisers, it was long coming, and will greatly relieve some growing problems we all are only too well aware of....

This likely also has a lot to do with real estate. Intrawest is listening to the parents and what they want in a resort in order to sell more units. Parents want more of the main mountain for the family to enjoy together. I will really miss South as it was. But I see the rationale, despite the sacrifice of losing good ol' Great Gorge.

I've heard about some small mountains across the country who wholly dedicated themselves to becoming terrain parks. This is sort-of the same idea.. I'm not sure if they will continue to have the $5 "park-pass" like Tremblant/Stratton (also Intrawest).

 

[playoutside]

Live less than 30 mins from Mountain Creek. I usually went only 2-3 times per season (mostly when I couldn't bear to make the drive to VT again). I always skied South Peak and would mainly do laps until the crowds arrived around lunch. The parking lot was convenient, the lodge was a real building. Small, but nice enough for a quick 3 hours of skiing. With the change to terrain park, I'm done at MC. The other peak which will be for non-terrain park enthusiasts is a long trek from the parking with a 10 yr old temp shelter for a lodge. Oh yeah and the lift, a cabriolet -- take my skis off every run, no thanks.

The upside of this is that I'll find some new mtns to ski when I can't head to VT. I'm thinking of Belleayre, Windham, Hunter and Camelback. Bit longer drive, but I'm sure I'll have fun.

 

[chaletlaforet]

Interesting. My heart sank a bit when I first read this, because I thought everone was getting over the ski vs board thing but I can see the sense in what they are doing here.

Is it so unusual to see skiers in the park? There seems to be an assumption (both here and in the NYT article) that the park will be almost exclusively boarders, and the other trails exclusively skiers- but freestyle skiing's quite big isn't it? I see a lot of it here, there's always some skiers in the park - and also relatively few snowboarders who stay in the park all the time.


“Don’t forget that the real money in the ski industry comes from selling real estate,” Scmet said. “They’re building a new base-area condo development, and they got the baggy-pants snowboarders away from that. It’s older skiers who buy the real estate.”

I think this is probably a lot of the key to it too....but I guess I'm ambivalent about the whole thing. Part of me sees that it's more efficient, and people will get more of the experience they want....but part of me thinks it's a shame to pigeonhole and separate, and that it would be better if everyone could all get along and enjoy the mountain together. I really enjoy the diversity of people you get out there. I like to see the baggy panted kids. I like to see older women who've skied the mountains all their lives, and the families teaching their kids, and the lads out on a stag do, and the japanese tourists with the latest gear who can't even move..... the variety is what makes it so much fun.

I know this sounds a bit of a rosy-tinted view, and I've been crashed into by plenty of irresponsible people of all ages doing all kinds of snowsport ....once, memorably, by a monoskier!

But there you go :/ It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[playoutside]

I think most of the fuss is less about mingling of boarders and skiers and more about losing my preferred terrain and lodge. MC is a day trip area and gets lots of kids and new snow sports fans. It can be crazy crowded and sometimes dangerous with too many newbies out of control. While I occasionally venture into terrain parks, I would never at MC -- perhaps its just too much unbridled enthusiasm for my tastes.

It has always been a bit of a gamble to ski at MC and this latest change just makes it not worth the effort for me.

 

[chaletlaforet]

Interesting , playoutside, to hear more about the circumstances - I suppose it's a hard choice for them to make in a complicated situation...

 

[marta]

Hi playoutside and chaletlaforet

I too will mourn what feels like the end of the old Great Gorge Resort (aka Mountain Creek South) simply by this transition.

All this change is viewed as a mixed bag of good and bad here. As part of the ranger patrol at MC, I can see that what's going on should be a good move toward the safety and enjoyment of all. The kids they're targeting to move over to South are the ones who speed down the easy trails to hurry up to get to the next park hit, all the while scaring the heck out of the lesiure cruisers. That's certainly got to be a good thing. Skiers and boarders alike are targeted here. Merely separating by who likes to do what. Not by what you're riding on. There will certainly be baggy pants kids on Vernon, but not the obnoxious punk ones. Vernon has the more difficult trails, and the beginner terrain, so I can see why they want to attract more skiers to Vernon peak. Plus the hotel. And now also more guests will have exposure to see the race kids compete on Sundays.

But of course the flip side, casual day skiers are losing their beloved South lodge and great parking. I always loved hiding all day at quiet old South and Bear peaks, blissfully away from the hub-bub of Vernon. Even combined as Mountain Creek, this place still felt and acted like two entirely different resorts, still just like Vernon Valley and Great Gorge. That feeling was driven much by the base areas.

But there are two "workarounds" you might want to try if you find yourself still jonesing to ski one day, and not willing to drive the 3rs to the Catskills. One is show up at South, park there, and take that free terrain park class (it's probably a 15 min video), get your park pass, it's good for the year, and then promptly ferry yourself over to Vernon via the Slowjurn chair (but perhaps explore a rollercoaster hill trail along your way first? they're fun!). When at Vernon always take the triple chair to avoid taking your skis off at the Cab. It generally runs between 11 and 3 with rarely a long line. Regarding the bubble lodge, sorry nothing I can suggest! If that really scares you off, then please promise to come back and visit us after they tear it down and replace it with a real lodge, which is supposedly after this season ends (?)