Help Needed: How wide is the ideal skiing stance?

[MissySki]

After watching some GoPro footage of myself from Diva East earlier this week, I realized that my stance looks much wider from behind than others'. It doesn't feel wide to me, but video doesn't lie! . From the side shot video things look pretty and fluid, but from behind not so much haha.

So my question is, how wide should my stance be?? I've read different things that contradict each other. Some say that your stance should be athletic and shoulder width apart for nowadays shaped, wider skis. Then others say narrower is better.

When I did a women's clinic for two days last season this was never mentioned to me at all, but I wonder now if it should have been? I also wonder if some canting is in order because my right leg looks a little more knock kneed than my left in videos (another thing I can't feel?!?), not sure if this is contributing to how things look from the back..

So any general or specific tips on where to start on this? Can I work on this myself, or is it not as simple as just closing the gap and I should do a lesson where I specify that I want to work on narrowing my stance?

I assume since some of you were with me for 4 days skiing I might even be able to get some first hand critiques! Be gentle! Lol

 

[Jilly]

Being a skier with the opposite problem.....if at the clinic they didn't say anything, don't worry about it!! If you're comfortable and can ski, then its not a problem. (I'm the opposite....too tight!)

Right leg. When does this occur - downhill skis or uphill skis?

 

[MissySki]

The right leg seems most noticeable on the flats, going straight. I'll need to watch again to see during turns exactly what it looks like.

 

[vanhoskier]

The right leg seems most noticeable on the flats, going straight. I'll need to watch again to see during turns exactly what it looks like.

MissySki, I saw you ski from in front and from behind at Diva East and it looks like you have the same issue I have, which is an alignment issue. Your right knee may be tracking a little to the inside of your big toe, creating that knock-kneed look. This also makes your right leg track further out in a turn. On video taken of me last year, I looked EXACTLY like that. And yes, it can be fixed with canting the boot sole. I had angled plates screwed into the bottom of the boot sole. The toe and heel pieces have to be machined a bit so they are DIN-compatible, but it's not that big of a deal.

Here's one way you can check, while skiing, to see if this is the case: Ski balanced on your right leg only on the flats. If the ski turns to the inside, you could have an alignment issue. (Of course, being able to glide on one ski is due to balance as well, so it's only a rudimentary test). But poor alignment prevents you not only from skiing on a flat ski, but also from putting both feet closer together, which is necessary in soft snow or powder.

Do you stem turns from time to time? Or tend to use a snowplow instead of a hockey-stop to stop yourself? Those are also clues that there may be an alignment issue.

Did your shop check your alignment when they molded your Fischer boots? I was made to understand that the molding process can correct some of these issues, but you may need additional canting. You may need canting on the left boot as well, but from looking at you, it would be very minor compared to the right boot.

So, have a talk with your boot fitter and have them measure your alignment. This will involve using a plumb-bob or a laser or some other device to measure the position of your knees relative to your big toe.

I've had a few bootfitters try to rectify my problem by building up the footbed inside my boot. It never did a thing to help; only made the fit of the boot uncomfortable. Only by having my boot soles canted was I able to ski on a flatter ski and put my feet together! (I say "flatter" ski, because my alignment isn't perfect, but it's enough to make a huge difference for me). And so you should demand the same. Don't let a boot fitter tell you he can fix it by building up your footbed. Your footbed should put your foot in a neutral position in the boot, and that's already been done for you.

Angled plastic plates are now made for boot fitters specifically for canting. Mine aren't as good as some...the plastic is soft and I need to use Cat Tracks when walking to keep them from wearing down. My left boot is canted 2 degrees and the right one is 2.5 degrees (probably could be 3 degrees). I've seen some plates that have Vibram on the bottom, which is very nice. I will probably have to replace mine next year. But the improvement in skiing is SO worth it!

 

[vanhoskier]

If you are skiing this weekend, here's an easy way to see if alignment is the issue:

All you need is duct tape and a ski partner. I know you have both.

4 pieces of duct tape layered on top of one another equals about 1 degree of canting. Put 4 pieces of duct tape on the INSIDE HALF of your boot sole and heel (you are building up the inside of your sole by one degree). Click into your bindings and take an easy ski run, with your ski partner behind you, observing your stance. Make some turns and try to see if you feel a difference. Try the one-legged balance exercise, if indeed you had difficulty balancing on one ski before.

You can repeat the process for 2 degrees or 3 degrees, or half-degree increments, but don't do more than 3 degrees (12 layers of duct tape). Of course, the tape compresses over time so isn't an entirely accurate measure, but it's a good approximation.

Take 1-2 runs only per trial. I don't recommend skiing on duct-tape-bottomed boots all day, even if it's the zebra-patterned duct tape.

 

[MissySki]

Vanhoskier,

When I had my boots remolded this year, they didn't check my alignment. Probably because the boot has to cool before flexing in it after molding for 24 hours and I took them that day. In years past, I had a total A frame, so I think it has been corrected a lot by the Fischer process, but apparently not so much on the right side for some reason.

I have also been feeling as though my right foot is always a little bit on edge on flat straight sections. Thank you for your observations, this definitely seems to confirm my suspicions along with the video! Also I do sometimes stem and wedge to stop as you stated.

Looks like a trip to the bootfitter is in order. Thanks for the tips, I definitely don't want to start playing inside my boot or with my footbed because those things feel good so I'll be sure to insist that's not the route I want to go.

As an aside, I also noticed that my soles are a little worn on the outsides in back (exactly how my shoes wear) even though majority of the time I also wear cat tracks. I wonder if this could be part of the problem? Perhaps I'll need to replace as well..

 

[MissySki]

Oh great tips I will try this out later this week when I ski! I'd rather be armed with this info before going to the fitter! .

 

[Skisailor]

Hey Missyski!

When Vanhoskier was going through this process, I was the one skiing behind and observing as she went through the duct tape process. Just wanted to chime in and say - the partner really can see the difference! (or not) So Mr. Missyski should be able to help you zero in on how much canting is necessary. Also - the great bootfitter Vanhoskier worked with at Big Sky made a big deal about being conservative in making this correction - saying it's better to under correct than to over correct. (Over correction can actually cause knee injuries). Even if you just get a little closer to flat - you can then make your own adjustments with your stance and balance to get to where you need to be.

Vanhoskier says she had the same issue with the wearing on the outside of her shoes - so it really seems like you guys have a similar problem.

Hope that helps!

 

[MissySki]

So just as a quick check in my house, I put on my boots and when I flex forward my right knee points straight left. Eeek, how do I not feel this??? It is very apparent when the knee is showing. Then I stood with a thin magazine under the inside of my boot and wow if my knee didn't go straight forward and my balance dramatically improved on that foot. Obviously this was just a sanity check, but I am looking forward to playing with some tape at the mountain now.

Also, the Fischers come with parts that can be switched out at the ankles. They are numbered and different thicknesses that screw in. I am assuming these are for canting. Would playing with these be beneficial before goong straight to the sole? Does it accomplish the same thing?

 

[tinymoose]

I think the screw in pieces are just for cuff adjustment. The guy at Totem Pole changed those pieces out to adjust the cuff on my new boots to align with my shin/leg when we went back to get the boots. He then checked my alignment, to see if I'd need any canting so I'm assuming these are different things then.

 

[MissySki]

Hey Skisailor!

Mr. Missyski is definitely going to have to tell me what things look like because I definitely cannot feel anything weird except that I'm always a little on my inside edge on that ski. On video it actually looks painful how much my right knee tracks in, don't understand how I can't feel it!

Wish I was skiing this weekend so I could start experimenting. Can't wait till Friday!

 

[MissySki]

I think the screw in pieces are just for cuff adjustment. The guy at Totem Pole changed those pieces out to adjust the cuff on my new boots to align with my shin/leg when we went back to get the boots. He then checked my alignment, to see if I'd need any canting so I'm assuming these are different things then.

Ahh the benefit of us being in very similar boots now! .

 

[ski diva]

So just as a quick check in my house, I put on my boots and when I flex forward my right knee points straight left. Eeek, how do I not feel this??? It is very apparent when the knee is showing. Then I stood with a thin magazine under the inside of my boot and wow if my knee didn't go straight forward and my balance dramatically improved on that foot. Obviously this was just a sanity check, but I am looking forward to playing with some tape at the mountain now.

Missy, try doing this in your bare feet to see if the boots are making it worse.

 

[tinymoose]

I hijacked the following from a thread on epic. Seems to explain the difference pretty well, although all of the finer things of bootfitting still make my head spin.

CantingIt is actually upper cuff shaft adjustment or "shaft canting" as opposed to canting the soles of the boot. The idea is to take the liners out of the boots, step into the boots with the black plastic boot boards remaining inside each boot. Then play with the cant adjustments on each side of each boot until the boot cuff is about an equal distance away from each side of each of your lower legs. Since there is often some difference between a person's legs any needed adjustment may be different for each boot.

You use the ratchet supplied with the boot to loosen the canting screws on both sides of each boot to adjust the cuff. It is much easier and usually more accurate to just stand in the boots looking straight ahead and have a friend do the measuring and any adjusting.

https://www.epicski.com/t/59276/need-help-with-functions-on-fischer-boot

 

[MissySki]

Missy, try doing this in your bare feet to see if the boots are making it worse.

Good idea, I will do this when I get home.

 

[MissySki]

So I tried just standing on the floor barefoot and got the same result as in my boots. The left knee tracks in as well, but not as bad as my right. When I add something under the inside of my foot it's very reduced and the knee goes much straighter.

 

[MissySki]

I spent quite awhile in front of my full length mirror checking out my knees. It's quite interesting how little of an adjustment will dramatically improve things.

Then it got me to thinking about the differences in my right and left knees. When I was 3 years old, I had emergency surgery on my right knee because of an infection in the joint. It took doctors quite some time to determine why I was in a lot of pain and could barely walk. My parents were told I must have a form or arthritis when they couldn't find another cause of the pain. It took my parents perseverance over a good period of time for the doctors to finally stick a large needle into my knee for a fluid sample (I actually remember being strapped down to a bed for that in the hospital, not fun!!). Regardless, they discovered the infection on a Sunday and rushed me into surgery, they pretty much said I was lucky they found it when they did or the damage could have given me a permanent limp for the rest of my life. My right leg is also measurably shorter than my left which I've always assumed could be a remnant to this period of time as well.

Now I'm curious if this is why my right knee tracks so much wonkier than my left. Not that I'll ever know for sure, but intriguing nonetheless..

 

[Jenny]

Totally off topic, but I distinctly remember my dad holding my head so I couldn't see what the doctor was doing when I was about three. What he was doing was coming at me with a needle so they could lance my eardrums. Both of them. That always hurt dad that I could remember that so vividly.

 

[volklgirl]

MissySki - I can't remember if you have custom foot beds (or even stock Superfeet) or not. If not, I'd start there before having the soles of your boot planed. Knock knees (A-Framing) is usually related to pronation, the collapse of the arch and inner ankle when the foot is weighted, so custom footbeds will often correct much of it. The good thing about starting there is that even if you still need sole canting on top of that, the footbeds can be transferred to your next pair of boots as well.

 

[MissySki]

Hey Volklgirl,

I do have custom foot beds already :(