Help Needed: How much travel risk is too much for a pow day?

[abc]

The few years I lived in the Bay area and skied Tahoe, I saw my share of road closure due to bad wrecks. It's never 2wd (which would have chains on by that point and mopping about at 30mph at best). It's always the 4wd going at 50-60mph when condition really suggestion it should be 35!

They have plenty of "drive" to keep going, it's only when they need to slow down that they realize 4wd doesn't stop any faster than 2wd!!!

 

[Christy]

The few years I lived in the Bay area and skied Tahoe, I saw my share of road closure due to bad wrecks. It's never 2wd (which would have chains on by that point and mopping about at 30mph at best). It's always the 4wd going at 50-60mph when condition really suggestion it should be 35!

They have plenty of "drive" to keep going, it's only when they need to slow down that they realize 4wd doesn't stop any faster than 2wd!!!

That's how it is here, too. The DOT used to broadcast automated messages on the radio as part of the weather alerts ("Tune to 1610 am for an important message") stating the 4wds do not stop any faster than other cars, and 4wd drivers need to cool it.

I think a lot of drivers that only go in the snow for weekend fun realize how important tires are, either.

 

[Pequenita]

These are current pix of one of the roads around Mt. Hood. Visibility isn't even an issue. The bottommost pic is an utter mess...unless they're chaining up. Though, it's a weird place to chain up. :(

 

[mahgnillig]

For me it depends on the vehicle (though white out conditions are no fun, no matter what vehicle you're driving). My Jeep has 33" snow tyres and is fully armoured all the way round, so it's like driving a tank. That said, I have spun it into a snow bank in 2wd on the snow so I always use 4wd and I'm super careful about touching the brakes in corners (this is how I spun it) or while going downhill. If the forecast was for feet of snow this is what I'd choose to drive, but I'd drive it slowly! I've driven it in blizzard conditions quite often and I have to stop periodically to pick the ice off the wipers, but it's got me to where I needed to be.

Oddly enough my other car (Prius) seems to do quite well in snow as long as I have the chains on (proper diamond chains, not the cable ones). I was telling a friend last night that we took it skiing during a dump last season and found about 10" of the white stuff on top of it when we were done. With some careful shoveling of a route to reverse out of (I always carry a shovel in my vehicles for winter), we got it out of an unploughed car park and out onto the road far more easily than the people struggling and spinning out in their big SUVs.

I think a lot of it depends on how you drive and the kind of tyres/traction you have. If you think you're invincible in your stock SUV and just gun it, you're going to end up wrapped around a tree. If you're careful, have proper traction and use manual transmission or engine braking to slow down you can do fine in most vehicles, as long as the road crews are making at least some effort to plough.

 

[Tammy]

Well, went to my local hill today, and the drive was pretty scary even though there were no whiteouts. The lift that serves the terrain I prefer to ski was closed and the lift that was open serves difficult terrain with crappy coverage at this point. The best covered piste was occupied by a freestyle competition and some kiddos doing slalom training. At least I skied part of a pretty difficult black diamond with wacky fall lines, bumps, sticky powder, and kind of enjoyed it until I saw rocks and then bailed onto the cat track. I love my Black Pearls!

On the way up there was a huge 4x4 that crashed off the road and was hanging from a small cliff and luckily didn't hit one of the houses below it. I managed to fishtail a little in my 2wd with studded snow tires and I felt badly for the ppl behind me. Max speed was about 10 mph after I saw the wreck. On the way down, an ambulance was on its way up the hill and then I got caught in a traffic jam with the wrecker dealing with the 4x4. Afterwards, I saw like three more wrecks with minor stuff going on-- rear-endings and the like. At that point, I think that the benevolent universe was trying to tell me, "Please go home and do some yoga sweetie."

Just glad that I got home safely today . Thanks to all of you who told me to "Bag it."

 

[litterbug]

Mahgnillig, what are diamond chains? I've been told that I can't use anything on my VW Rabbit but cable chains, but it's hard to imagine they'd provide much grip. I've actually never used chains of any kind, just snow tires. Good snows and some skill can turn a front wheel drive VW into a little tractor in snow or mud.

 

[Tammy]

I think a lot of it depends on how you drive and the kind of tyres/traction you have. If you think you're invincible in your stock SUV and just gun it, you're going to end up wrapped around a tree. If you're careful, have proper traction and use manual transmission or engine braking to slow down you can do fine in most vehicles, as long as the road crews are making at least some effort to plough.

I have a little Honda Civic. It's a super-duper fun car to drive, amazing gas mileage, and does ok in the snow (I have studded snow tires in the winter). Maybe in a few years I'll trade it in for a Subie.

 

[mahgnillig]

Mahgnillig, what are diamond chains? I've been told that I can't use anything on my VW Rabbit but cable chains, but it's hard to imagine they'd provide much grip. I've actually never used chains of any kind, just snow tires. Good snows and some skill can turn a front wheel drive VW into a little tractor in snow or mud.

Mine look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Snow_Chain_Honda.jpg

I got them from my local Les Schwab tyre shop. They are a huge improvement over the cable chains we used to have, and work really well on our Prius. I can't imagine the Prius having better wheel clearance than a VW Rabbit (it's pretty snug in there), so I'm sure they'd work for you.

 

[litterbug]

Mine look like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Snow_Chain_Honda.jpg

Wow, I could not get that link to work, and Google is not being my friend at the moment (especially in my phone). Are they chains with links?

 

[Pequenita]

Wow, I could not get that link to work, and Google US not being my friend at the moment (especially in my phone). Are they chains with links?

Yeah - looks like chain chains.

 

[litterbug]

I'll have to check it out. Shows you how little interest I've taken in the subject--all I've done is walk into an auto supply store and asked what I should buy. Basically I watch weather reports like a hawk and take the ski bus from the park and ride in bad weather, but even when it's dry a two wheel drive vehicle has to carry chains to drive up the canyon; otherwise I wouldn't bother. I'd really like to start driving up in bad weather, but my one experience trying to install cable chains was a disaster. It's be nice to have something more substantial.

 

[geargrrl]

White outs are their own unique kind of frightening. You can have decent traction on the road surface, but snow swirling and blowing so hard that you cannot see....anything. Not ne side of the road, not the centerline, not the car in front of you or the one coming towards you. Overseen more than my share the years we lived in Colorado and Wyoming.

Now where I live we get these occasional glaze ice conditions that are equally frightening.

 

[Ringrat]

Snow tires are a must. I wish Ontario had the same rules as Quebec. Snow tires are mandatory after December 15th! I spent $1000 this year for 4.

DECEMBER 15th!? Wow. For us it's OCTOBER 1st (to April 30th). It isn't province-wide law in BC, so municipalities can make their own rules, but on highways it's regulated. It depends on the highway, but if I look at the maps there are just a few around Vancouver and on the Island that AREN'T mandatory winter tire/chains highways.

 

[Jilly]

We can't do chains or spiked tires. But I really do think the worst part is that most drivers that end up in the ditch or in a collision don't drive well in good conditions, so what did they expect!!

 

[Serafina]

4WD just puts you into a 4WD drift. You need to learn how to drive in the stuff too. The cars/trucks I usually see in the ditch are the little ones - Honda Civics, Ford focus or 18 wheelers!

Snow tires are a must. I wish Ontario had the same rules as Quebec. Snow tires are mandatory after December 15th! I spent $1000 this year for 4.

Do they require studded tires, or just regular snow tires? Are studded tires same thing as spiked ones? Studded tires are permitted here between certain dates. We've got neither, right now - just all-weather tires, and a 2-wheel drive. Means we stay home when it's piling up on the roads - so we keep an eagle eye on the forecast, and just make sure we're in position before the storm starts if we want to ski.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Are studded tires same thing as spiked ones? Studded tires are permitted here between certain dates.

Guessing yes, just a different name. They are legal here between 10/1-5/1, and I've had them for both Subarus, and OMG, talk about Money Well Spent. Went for some major-pricey ones with the new(er) Subaru, (Nokian Hakkas) ditto well spent, as these aren't quite as noisy as the ones we had on other vehicle. In a winter like this? They have MORE than paid for themselves. HUGE difference.

 

[geargrrl]

Snow tires have a different tread than all weather, or all season tires , that is (duh) much better traction in snow. They can add studs (or spikes) to any snow tires. In addition, snow tires come in different tire materials. There is a winter specific tire that has softer rubber than snow tread only tires. This winter specific rubber has another layer of grippiness over a regular snow tread. We found that once we went to the softer winter rubber we didn't need to stud our winter tires any more. If anything, for our conditions, the winter rubber is even grippier than studded tires.