Hockey stop for beginners/intermediates

[marzNC]

Since the subject of hockey stops has come up in a few threads, thought it would be good to have a separate thread. I'm not an instructor, but have realized that the fact that I learned hockey stops as a kid was one difference between what I what terrain and speed I was willing to handle as an intermediate adult compared to friends who learned as adults. Knowing how to do a hockey stop at any speed you are comfortable skiing, and in both directions, is a very useful skill. Can be a survival skill on a crowded slope. Ideally, you should always be able to come to a quick stop regardless of the speed you are going. To get to that stage, you have to practice hockey stops under controlled conditions first.

If you see a ski instructor do a hockey stop and spray students (or almost spray) when teaching a group of kids, the point seems to be to make doing a hockey stop fun. I remember my daughter trying to spray me by age 5, which was her second season.

 

[mustski]

It's a great visual for those who aren't familiar with the term. DS loves spraying people. Last year at Diva West Mr. Ride-Ski had been spraying people and (although I had missed the previous incidents) offered to lay down and let everyone spray him to make amends. When DS, got ready for his turn I was a little surprised that he would spray someone he had just met. I asked him if he was really going to spray him and he just looked at me like I was crazy and said... "Hell yes!"

 

[Lilywhite]

Learning to sideslip first makes the hockey stop come naturally, until I learned to sideslip I just couldn't commit to the stop. I had some sort of mental block with it.

 

[mustski]

@Lilywhite Welcome back. We've missed you.

 

[Lilywhite]

Thanks Mustski, I was struggling for a long time, lots better now and looking forward to skiing in January.

 

[mustski]

Thanks Mustski, I was struggling for a long time, lots better now and looking forward to skiing in January.

Now that is excellent news!

 

[Jilly]

Wahoo...welcome back!!

 

[Jenny]

Yay, you're skiing again!

 

[abc]

Learning to sideslip first makes the hockey stop come naturally, until I learned to sideslip I just couldn't commit to the stop. I had some sort of mental block with it.

+1.

I totally agree side slip is the better path.

Although I could do a sort of hockey stop relatively early, it didn't help my skiing much.

It was learning side-slip that really open up a lot of terrain for me. Plus, the finer point of edge control help me with a lot of other moves I sort of kind of could do but not do well.

And hockey stop came with it if you don't already know it.

 

[marzNC]

Question for U.S. instructors about what is taught to never-ever adults in the first lesson at your ski school . . . is the side slip or hockey stop included ? I'm thinking about a lesson that is not part of a weekly program, but could be part of a 3-lesson package. Please note your region (northeast, MidA, Rockies, etc.).

 

[marzNC]

A more formal look at hockey stops from PSIA-RM (Rocky Mountain Division).

 

[Skisailor]

Question for U.S. instructors about what is taught to never-ever adults in the first lesson at your ski school . . . is the side slip or hockey stop included ? I'm thinking about a lesson that is not part of a weekly program, but could be part of a 3-lesson package. Please note your region (northeast, MidA, Rockies, etc.).

In my never-ever half day lesson I do not teach hockey stops yet. Too much to cover on very basic skills with and without skis on. Stance, side stepping straight runs and lots more. Once we get on the magic carpet terrain, straight wedge to stop, wedge turns to a stop, and early upper lower body separation drills come first.

PSIA - Northern Rocky Mt Division

 

[Skisailor]

@marzNC - Notice the upper lower body separation in the PSIA video. Unless that separation is introduced first, learning hockey stops too early could just reinforce the terminal intermediate upper body rotation that the skiers in your earlier videos were using to get their skis around.

 

[abc]

@marzNC - Notice the upper lower body separation in the PSIA video. Unless that separation is introduced first, learning hockey stops too early could just reinforce the terminal intermediate upper body rotation that the skiers in your earlier videos were using to get their skis around.

That's my experience too.

More over, beginners have enough trouble turning quickly. So they're in no position to quickly throw their skis side way to initiate the hockey stop.

 

[marzNC]

@marzNC - Notice the upper lower body separation in the PSIA video. Unless that separation is introduced first, learning hockey stops too early could just reinforce the terminal intermediate upper body rotation that the skiers in your earlier videos were using to get their skis around.

The instructors my daughter had before age 7 were not really teaching a hockey stop, but clearly spraying requires a quick stop making full use of edges. I assume when teaching young kids, no instructor talks about upper/lower body separation. I certainly don't remember how I learned to do a hockey stop. When I got back on skis as an adult, it was something I knew how to do without thinking about it. I'm trying to figure out how an adult advanced beginner or intermediate can get more comfortable at speed because they have confidence that they can stop quickly if needed.

@BackCountryGirl : do your kids all know how to hockey stop? How did they learn?

 

[Skisailor]

The instructors my daughter had before age 7 were not really teaching a hockey stop, but clearly spraying requires a quick stop making full use of edges. I assume when teaching young kids, no instructor talks about upper/lower body separation. I certainly don't remember how I learned to do a hockey stop. When I got back on skis as an adult, it was something I knew how to do without thinking about it. I'm trying to figure out how an adult advanced beginner or intermediate can get more comfortable at speed because they have confidence that they can stop quickly if needed.

@BackCountryGirl : do your kids all know how to hockey stop? How did they learn?

I teach on the adult side only. Very little experience teaching kids.

 

[marzNC]

I teach on the adult side only. Very little experience teaching kids.

I guess the question is where a hockey stop comes in for adult beginners as they progress from beginner to advanced beginner to intermediate. From another thread, it's pretty clear that moving from intermediate to advanced pretty much requires having confidence in a solid hockey stop in a variety of conditions and somewhat faster speeds on blue/black trails.

Here's an example of the difference knowing a proper hockey stop can make:

Having just had another lesson yesterday, and spending the entire day relearning and practicing beginner skills (because apparently, I've learned some godawful bad habits by allowing my DH to be my initial instructor), I'd like to add that I considered myself "intermediate" once I could comfortably ski blue runs without falling for most of the day.

Today, I'd call myself an advanced beginner. To be able to see the things I've read about here (over and over), such as posture, and femur rolling, hockey stopping - things I thought I was doing ok (just ok) and realizing I was doing quite a bit wrong, which is why I was still having problems stopping...all I have to say is "WOW...just WOW! What a learning experience!" I had an awesome instructor, who was extremely patient with me, and who even stopped me much later in the day to ask how I was doing with those skills.

I spent the entire day after that, skiing slowly, and in control - moreso than I have ever skied. I learned a proper hockey stop, and also how to get up on my edges and use stance and finesse, instead of brute strength and pure gravity to get me safely down the hill. My quads are a little tender today, but my knees don't hurt from skiing poorly.

So to reiterate what everyone else has said, keep up with the lessons, practice, and push yourself a little further every time you start to feel comfortable.

 

[Skisailor]

Yup. For me it's definitely more in the advanced beginner stage and not in the never ever - first couple of lessons stage. But of course every student is different and progresses at their own rate. So it's student specific.

What I was saying above is that I personally would want all the stance stuff, early wedge stops and wedge turns and upper lower body separation with movement toward wedge christies and some ski matching before introducing hockey stops.

 

[Skisailor]

Meant to add, I do think that introducing hockey stops with upper body rotation - as demonstrated by those skiers in your first videos - just reinforces a bad habit that will have to be undone later. That's why I wouldnt want teach it too early. PSIA has a mantra not to teach things you have to later undo.

 

[marzNC]

Yup. For me it's definitely more in the advanced beginner stage and not in the never ever - first couple of lessons stage. But of course every student is different and progresses at their own rate. So it's student specific.

What I was saying above is that I personally would want all the stance stuff, early wedge stops and wedge turns and upper lower body separation with movement toward wedge christies and some ski matching before introducing hockey stops.

Meant to add, I do think that introducing hockey stops with upper body rotation - as demonstrated by those skiers in your first videos - just reinforces a bad habit that will have to be undone later. That's why I wouldnt want teach it too early. PSIA has a mantra not to teach things you have to later undo.

Makes sense. Kids are not doing hockey stops in never-ever classes either. Probably they just get to the confident advanced beginner stage faster than the average adult on skis in their first season. At Massanutten, the progression is Red (never-ever), Orange, Yellow. Most kids of any age only do one day in Red. Younger kids under age 6 can be in Orange for a while because they aren't strong enough yet for certain skills. I can't remember if I noticed spraying in Yellow or Green. My daughter was 5 before she could made it to Yellow. Had perhaps 6-7 days on snow by then in a season and a half in the southeast. My friend's 6yo son went from Red to Green his first season during a couple long weekends. He played ice hockey so picked up skiing quickly. His mother is another story and one reason I'm thinking about progression for a beginner adult.