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Harb Systems?

Bowl

Certified Ski Diva
Just found out Harb also have camps in midwest, close to me-the Welch Village in MN. They also teaching kids carving using the PMTS system there. The camps/classes are more expensive than the PSIA class/camps at my local hill. I may give a try next season. Midwest ladies, anyone has been to this camp at Welch?
 

Bowl

Certified Ski Diva
Well, there have been a lot of opinions expressed so far about the PMTS vs PSIA approach to teaching. No one has posted yet who has been to a PMTS camp. I have.

The elephant in the room is Harald Harb's toxic negativity towards PSIA and any other teaching system other than his own. Let's call it negative advertising. He trashes everything not his, demands total loyalty, and sticks to a very rigid progression for his students. His certified instructors do the same. PSIA instructors who have experienced his intense denigration of how they teach are as negative about his system as he is about theirs.

None of that impacts the value of the PMTS approach to skiing. PMTS is excellent as far as its technique goes. It is taught clearly and consistently by all its instructors. This is good, and I affirm it. I've learned much of my skiing from the three instructional books written by Harald Harb, the forum discussions which focus on technique, and the free videos he's put online. The consistency in PMTS teaching is very helpful, since you always hear the same thing in the same words.

PSIA, on the other hand, does not promote a particular way to make your first turns, nor your intermediate turns, nor advanced turns. PSIA does not promote a particular progression in its teaching strategy for beginner through intermediate and on to advanced skiing. For this reason, PSIA does not guarantee a consistent teaching approach. Instead, PSIA allows its instructors to creatively choose how to approach a particular client's needs. This means you need to find an instructor who you can work with, who reads you well and who you understand. The issue is the ski industry is understaffed. There are many ski instructors who could use a bit more training before being turned loose to teach intermediate skiers.

When I went to the week-long PMTS camp at A-Basin, I had high expectations. I was very enthusiastic. I expected to learn plenty during a full week, and I was well-prepared. I had been working from the books for years, and had absorbed a good measure of the technique into my personal skiing. But I did not learn anything, except how far I was from perfect. But I found the rigidity constricting. You'd think I would have gotten better at what the system teaches, with a whole week of on-snow instruction, but I didn't. I think if I'd been in another teacher's group (I was in Harald's group!), I might have gotten more from the camp. I also think if I'd known less about PMTS and had spent less time over the years working on embedding its technique in my skiing, I might have gotten more from the camp.

I do find the negativity of PMTS toxic. I don't like the way Harald talks about all instructors who are not certified by him. I will not go back to another PMTS camp for this reason.
This sounds like a smart man with a big eagle. I have met a few in my life. :becky: Harald was once a PSIA director many years ago until he decided to go his own way. He is also one of the pioneers in boot fitting. And I do find a lot of his teaching is scientifically based.
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Has anyone had any experience with Harb systems workshops? I am consider taking one in November to get the season started right.
@SuZieCoyote, or @Greeley, or anybody else reading here, did you sign up for a camp? Those camps fill up fast. Let us know, and report back about your experiences if you like.

Oh, I see that SuZieCoyote and Greeley last posted a loooong time ago.

@Bowl, how about you??
 
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liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I have not been to a Harb camp yet. But I am thinking to go next season.
Be sure to watch for the opening day for registration. It comes sometime in the middle of the summer, and these camps fill very fast. You can call Diana now and talk about which camp would be best for you, and get the date they open registration from her so you'll be ready and not caught off-guard. When I decided to go, there were almost no spots left. I can't find the phone number in my contacts, but I bet you can find it online somewhere since that's what I think I did.
 

Bowl

Certified Ski Diva
Be sure to watch for the opening day for registration. It comes sometime in the middle of the summer, and these camps fill very fast. You can call Diana now and talk about which camp would be best for you, and get the date they open registration from her so you'll be ready and not caught off-guard. When I decided to go, there were almost no spots left. I can't find the phone number in my contacts, but I bet you can find it online somewhere since that's what I think I did.
So tight even at Welch village? This is the Harb camp in Minnesota, not at Colorado. As a Minnesotan, it seems to me that anything should be at abundance. :smile:. And who is Diana?
 

liquidfeet

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Oh, right, you are looking at Welch Village. What I said does not apply. I goofed. Sorry.

Diana is Harald's SO. She is the contact person for the camps at ABasin.
 

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