Question: Getting the most out of lessons...

[jeniferkate]

Hello all-

I am an advanced intermediate skier, would like to advance a bit further. Get into trouble on bumps, ungroomed, powder. I am lucky enough to live in Utah (for now), and usually ski at DV and Snowbird as I have passes there.

I took a couple of group lessons at Snowbird this year...they were AWFUL, much lower level than I needed, not very good instructors. Any suggestions for getting off the groomers? I don't think private lessons are in the budget this year, sadly.

 

[wahineskisk2]

I don't know what level class you joined but, my suggestion is to get in an advanced group, say level 7 or 8, even if you feel like that isn't your level at the moment. It very well could be because; a. sometimes it's hard to be the best judge of your abilities, and b. you may be at that level by the end of the lesson. If you go on a weekday early in the week, chances are there won't be more than 1 or 2 others, and often no one else in those higher level classes. If there are other students, a good instructor will give equal time to every one's needs, or split the group with another instructor so you'll be satisfied. You've got to ask for what you want to learn about, explain where you feel you need help, otherwise it forces the instructor to be a mind reader, which isn't fun for either of you... If you're not getting what you need, keep asking. I like to find someone that works well with me, can teach in my learning style, i.e. visual, auditory, etc., and then stick with that person. Find out what their work schedule is, and show up for their class. Instructors don't get paid that well, sadly, and most resorts offer a small bump for repeat students, and don't forget to tip at the end of the day. If you're happy and you know it, show it. If not? Let the instructor know that too, in a constructive feedback kinda way. A good instructor will take your feedback into consideration, if not, then choose another next time.

Let us know how it goes! :D

 

[wahineskisk2]

Oh, BTW the instructors that generally teach those higher level classes, ski beyond those levels and have for years. My favorite guys at Keystone, CO have been teaching since 1964 & 1967!!!! Sometimes resorts put new hires in teaching classes they shouldn't be teaching...

 

[bounceswoosh]

I took a couple of group lessons at Snowbird this year...they were AWFUL, much lower level than I needed, not very good instructors. Any suggestions for getting off the groomers? I don't think private lessons are in the budget this year, sadly.

I'm going to ask a couple of questions to get you thinking about what you do want from a lesson. Your description focused on what you didn't like, but if you can instead couch it in terms of what you do want, you have a better chance of connecting with an instructor who can give it to you.

How were you placed in the lower level lessons - did you place yourself, or did they move you there? If you placed yourself, yes, by all means, move yourself up. If not, make sure that you communicate with the instructors so that you don't get put in too low a group.

What did you not like about the instruction? It may be a personality / learning style disconnect, and if you can describe the kind of instruction that works for you, you should be able to find someone who teaches like that.

The key to a good lesson is to be very clear about what you need. I would recommend going to lesson organizer and explaining exactly the kind of skiing you want to do. Also, be clear about the teaching style that works for you. Unfortunately I know this can be hard - when I pick up my lesson ticket at Breck, they don't even know who is teaching that day. But when you do start lining up, you can explain what you want to whichever instructor is available, and they should help you get with the right group and instructor.

The better you can define what "AWFUL" and "not very good" mean, the better you can guide your own lesson experience to get what you need.

 

[jeniferkate]

What I am looking for in lessons...

Hey, thanks!

A little about my skiing-I guess I am one of the vast number of intermediate skiers...I would say I can ski anything that is semi-groomed. Steep isn't a problem, although I get a little scared going too fast when it's icy. Technique...it's ok. I am one of the people who looks ok skiing, then I am afraid to go fast or moguls etc. I would say I am a level 7....

What I would really like is to lose my fear and also learn to ski moguls, powder, off trail. I realize my technique can always get better, but what I really want is access to powder and ungroomed trails. I realize there is always a utility to doing drills and practicing my form, but I will never progress beyond the groomers without someone taking me/holding my hand.

In my lesson, it was all blues and greens and one groomed black. I realize it's useful, and that one's form can always improve, but what I am looking for is someone to push me and teach me to ski on harder trails in difficult conditions.

 

[jeniferkate]

and

I think I was pretty direct about what I wanted, initially I said I was a 6 but after being kicked out of a lesson for being too advanced (and for some weird reason there wasn't another instructor) I said the next time that I was a 7...which I think is accurate. I told them honestly that I ski a couple of times a week all winter and what I wanted out of a lesson. I feel that being any more direct would have been...rude.

Talked about it with the instructor (who just got annoyed with us for going too fast)...they put me and a friend in a group with 2 women who had only been skiing a few days, when it was obvious we weren't being challenged and we asked for more their response was "you can always learn something". Well, that's true, but I can also always have a nice day skiing w/o a lesson.

 

[KatyPerrey]

What I would really like is to lose my fear and also learn to ski moguls, powder, off trail. I realize my technique can always get better, but what I really want is access to powder and ungroomed trails. I realize there is always a utility to doing drills and practicing my form, but I will never progress beyond the groomers without someone taking me/holding my hand.
but what I am looking for is someone to push me and teach me to ski on harder trails in difficult conditions.

Get a PRIVATE lesson!!

 

[bounceswoosh]

Hrm. I don't know what to say. On one hand, I know that sometimes people need to work on skills on the easy stuff before they can do well on more varied terrain. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who manage to ski the ungroomed terrain without any lessons at all, and have fun, too. On the third hand, being in a lesson that doesn't feel challenging or that doesn't address your needs sucks, and feels like a big waste of money.

Regardless, it sounds like your instructors were missing a fundamental point, which is that ultimately they are there to help you meet your own goals. If there's a lesson of three people and all three people want to go faster, and the instructor refuses, that's an instructor who doesn't understand that they work for the students, not the other way around. (I'm assuming you're not talking dangerously fast, just wanting to move a little faster.)

I got the Breck lesson pass this season, which is really nice in many ways, one of which is that I was able to dial in my level and even figure out the teaching styles of several different instructors. I do remember that I had a lot more "meh" lessons before I went this route. With the pass, I've still had a few "meh" lessons, but far fewer - and it turned out to be because I was on the cusp between two levels, and once I just bit the bullet and signed on for the more advanced classes, everything got much more interesting.

I definitely know this - if I had to choose between being the best and worst skier in a class, I'd choose being the worst. If you're the best skier in the class, the class just really isn't going to be about the things you need to move up. If you're the worst in the class, you may struggle, but at least you'll learn a lot. Best, of course, is to be right in the middle of the pack, so that the bulk of the lesson is well-suited to you.

 

[SnowHot]

Get a PRIVATE lesson!!

I agree with this.
Get a private and let the ski school know that you want to work on varied terrain, working toward going off piste.
In a private lesson, the instructor can give you more attention and help you build on skills on groomers that will get you into more varied terrain with confidence.

 

[marzNC]

I definitely know this - if I had to choose between being the best and worst skier in a class, I'd choose being the worst. If you're the best skier in the class, the class just really isn't going to be about the things you need to move up. If you're the worst in the class, you may struggle, but at least you'll learn a lot. Best, of course, is to be right in the middle of the pack, so that the bulk of the lesson is well-suited to you.

Agree!

For me, one of the neat aspects of the NASTC/Diva clinic was that the groups were pretty well matched in ability. Our instructor (day 2-3) for the "middle" group of four was very happy about that. Also made it easy to learn just by watching others in the group.

 

[nopoleskier]

Hey, thanks!

A little about my skiing-I guess I am one of the vast number of intermediate skiers...I would say I can ski anything that is semi-groomed. Steep isn't a problem, although I get a little scared going too fast when it's icy. Technique...it's ok. I am one of the people who looks ok skiing, then I am afraid to go fast or moguls etc. I would say I am a level 7....

What I would really like is to lose my fear and also learn to ski moguls, powder, off trail. I realize my technique can always get better, but what I really want is access to powder and ungroomed trails. I realize there is always a utility to doing drills and practicing my form, but I will never progress beyond the groomers without someone taking me/holding my hand.

In my lesson, it was all blues and greens and one groomed black. I realize it's useful, and that one's form can always improve, but what I am looking for is someone to push me and teach me to ski on harder trails in difficult conditions.

good idea to look for classes/clinics specifically for bumps or off piste instruction... check out PSIA-professional ski instructors of america. some of our classes are open to non members and the instructors are awesome skiers, riders & top instructors, many clinics for personal skiing, and there are 'specific ski technique' classes every year all over the usa!

 

[abc]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say this...

For many intermedaite, especially the "upper intermediate" skiers, random group lesson rarely work too well.

What I found helpful in the end:

- Private lesson: since it's expensive, focus on one area you want to break through. Being it bumps or steeps or going fast in control etc.

- Specialty clinics: this had been my favorate for a while. The more popular clinics are bump and powder clinics. That would get you off the groomer and expand your skiing greatly. For me, I quickly realize my skiing in general needs improving, and bumps are used as "exam" for whatever I learn. That led me to my latest favorate "lesson plan"...

- Multi-day clinics for more advanced skiers: in these clinics, you get to work with the SAME instructor for several days. There's enough time for the instructor to work with you in different conditions, mixing drills and apply it to different terrains.

 

[geargrrl]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say this...

me too, but I have something different to say. As I worked my way up through various levels of adult group, small group, specialty group and private lessons, I am stretched to think of when we ever went off piste.**The thinking I've run into is to strengthen your skills on piste, and then go work off piste outside of the lesson. It certainly didn't hurt me: we get a fairly amazing assortment of crap and crud snow, and I can ski all condition with the best of them.

**one private bump specific lesson ten years ago.

I am also going to repeat something I said in a different thread. What you think you need, and what a qualified instructor thinks you need may be two different things, and you should approach your lesson with the heart of a student. I mean, sure you can be in the totally wrong lesson, but I am willing to respect the opinion of a professional.

gg

 

[bounceswoosh]

me too, but I have something different to say. As I worked my way up through various levels of adult group, small group, specialty group and private lessons, I am stretched to think of when we ever went off piste.**The thinking I've run into is to strengthen your skills on piste, and then go work off piste outside of the lesson. It certainly didn't hurt me: we get a fairly amazing assortment of crap and crud snow, and I can ski all condition with the best of them.

**one private bump specific lesson ten years ago.

I am also going to repeat something I said in a different thread. What you think you need, and what a qualified instructor thinks you need may be two different things, and you should approach your lesson with the heart of a student. I mean, sure you can be in the totally wrong lesson, but I am willing to respect the opinion of a professional.

gg

So I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I'm not sure what off-piste means, exactly, and I suspect that people don't necessarily share the same definition.

When I was skiing in the 7 group at Breck, I rarely did anything but groomers and pretty small moguls. I got to a point where I felt bored in the 7s classes, but afraid to take the 8s because I was just sure I would be too slow and too timid etc etc etc. Then finally there was a day when I was in a 7s class and just feeling so unchallenged, and at lunch I saw my husband at lunch, with his 8s class. They seemed nice, and I'd met the instructor before. I asked if I could switch to their class, and swore that I would leave if I were holding them back. Mid-day lesson switches are not exactly approved by the ski school, but in this case it was the right thing for me to do. I found out that, yes, I was working to keep up - but isn't the point of a lesson to be working, not coasting?

So now I ski 8s, and I'm always at the lower end of the skill spectrum, but I'm also always challenged and always learning. My skiing has improved by leaps and bounds.

The 8s and 9s classes, after early season, are often in the upper bowls, unmaintained (but marked) terrain, moguls, trees, etc. But I'll admit that they are not as intensely lesson-oriented as I remember earlier classes - it's more of a mixture of class and guided tour, with the specific mix depending on the instructor.

I've definitely seen people who thought they were way better than they actually were, and will never get better in skills because they are "too good" for the drills. On the other hand, in my experience, while I've seen instructors suggest that students go down a level, I have never seen a 7s instructor suggest that a student move up to 8s.

So on some level I think, if you're not feeling challenged, it can't hurt to move yourself up - if you really absolutely don't belong there, the instructor will move you down, or you'll feel overwhelmed and ask to be moved down. (Where it could hurt to move yourself up is if the very first warm up run is way beyond your skill level and you don't recognize it as such, but that seems unlikely.)

 

[jeniferkate]

Lots of GREAT advice, appreciate it ALL, love this site! Especially appreciate the 7-8 dilemma, that's kinda where I am

 

[ski now work later]

My sister-in-law says the instructors at Alta are first rate. She is an advanced skier and takes group lessons at Alta whenever she's there, under $40 for 2.5 hours I think, not sure exactly. Though you would have to pay for a day pass to Alta (I think it's $32 to upgrade from Snowbird for the day but maybe not on a Snowbird pass), it would be less than private coaching. Snowbird has such limited intermediate terrain that you might find Alta to have more of what you're looking for.