Frustrating lesson!

[Mom of Redheads]

So, sad to say my week at Tremblant ended on kind of a down note when I decided to take a lesson (first one in about 8 years), and I really am not sure what I got out of it.

I want to say that I don't really think it was the instructor's fault - she was perfectly nice and I believe I understood everything she was trying to say - but I clearly couldn't execute what she was telling me.

Basically, taking a lesson was impulsive, so it was short (perhaps too short?). She told me (in about an hours' time), that (long list to follow) my stance is all wrong; my shoulders aren't facing downhill; I'm skiing on my uphill ski and not putting pressure on the downhill one; my hands/poles are too high, etc, etc. I know that this is all connected together, so one problem leads to another. I also didn't really have an argument with what she was saying, as I knew or suspected I did some (maybe not all) of those things... but everytime I thought I was getting at least some of it right, she kept saying "no, no, you're still not doing it."

So... after some thought, I realize that part of my frustration is I don't see how I can correct all of this at once. If I could isolate and make some changes - it might help. Also, I never had an "aha this is what it should feel like" moment so if I try and work on all this stuff I won't even know if I'm getting it right...

No real chance at another lesson this season to help sort this out in my mind, so anyone have any advice to offer on how to put this in perspective? Or at least find something useful to take away from it? I have to admit I am stewing about this and not able to put my usual self-deprecating sense of humor to good use on this one yet!

I think my feelings on this matter are somewhat exacerbated by the fact that my boys made it clear that the most fun skiing they had all week was while I was in my lesson, because Dad of Redheads took them down all manner of blacks, moguls and glades that I would not have taken them down (or likely gone down myself).

Oh, one more note: Jilly and SkiBam, I am so glad I did not have this lesson before I skied with you, because I would have been far too self-conscious of my form to enjoy myself as much as I did! This would have been me - on skis:

 

[dloveski]

I hear 'ya---it's overwhelming to try to fix everything at once. First, just commit to enjoy the remaining days on snow. Pick a couple of things to work on and relax and just get as much time on snow and try various methods and see how it feels. Don't try too hard and ruin all of the fun.

In 40 years plus of skiing, I've only had a few lessons. I'm not a 'classic' skier, but trial and error has slapped the basics into me. And find a friend to ski with to give you feedback and occasionally video you.

Each day I ski, I try to do at least one run that stretches me beyond my comfort zone to push myself. If I choke, I go back that day or another day and try again and compare my runs and figure out what I'm doing right/wrong. When I nail it, it's a great feeling and then I move to the next challenge. And so on. What I've learned---when it gets steep, I have to lean farther downhill, not less, and separate my upper body from my lower body---relax the upper and work it down under!

Just roll with it and smile.

 

[ski now work later]

Well it doesn't sounds like you had a good coach, because it harmed your self-esteem and didn't teach you anything useful so don't blame yourself.

I tend to ski with skiers who are more advanced than I am and now my DH is more advanced on his board than I, and I have fear issues (fear of new mountains, fear of looking stupid, fear of injuring myself) so I spend a lot of time feeling insecure on the mountain. I've had a few great days this season, but still....

So I'm sending you a big hug and suggest you think about something you did that was fun and felt right, because you know you did!

 

[mountainxtc]

It's more than a little frustrating to me as an instructor to hear that you had a lesson like that. It was your instructor's job to pinpoint the most important thing(s) for you to work on and break it down into an easy progression, part of which involves isolating a particular feeling(s) and giving you the tools to self correct. Just to hear "no, you're still not doing it" - especially when you think that you are making changes - is not helpful to anyone.

Maybe your instructor was inexperienced and/or nervous or maybe she was just having a bad day. It happens to everyone, and you can't judge. But please don't let it put you off from taking lessons. My advice to you in the interim is this: pick one (or two at the absolute maximum) thing that came up in your lesson that you feel helped you the most right off the bat. Have that be your focus. Forget the rest, it's for another time. Ask if you need drills to help with whatever it is you pick. Feel free to post video footage if you can't decide what that one thing should be and I would be more than happy to give you a hand.

Sounds like you should have taken your lesson with SkiBam or Jilly

edit: If you are staying a few more days I wouldn't be above explaining to the ski school that you weren't happy with your experience - they may comp you a lesson and if that happens they will make sure it's with one of their best pros....

 

[LindsaySkiGal]

I'm on my second year of ski school and here is my perspective:

- It can be difficult to do only a 1 hour lesson and make a huge impact (except for a very new skier). With that said, it sounds like your instructor was trying to cover way too much at one time. Did your instructor ask you what you wanted out of the lesson?

- Being on ski school, it is almost impossible for me to go out skiing and not have someone tell me how something I am doing is very wrong. No one likes to be made to feel like they suck, however, it gives me an idea of what I need to work on to get to that next step. It would be impossible to change all those pieces the instructor gave you at once. It takes doing something 300 times to master it. What you can do, is just work on one thing to the point that it just becomes how you ski normally, then work on the next, etc.

Don't let one lesson discourage you - aha moments will happen with practice and maybe more lessons if you can muster it. What I find is one instructor will tell me one thing, another another thing ,etc. I'll have my aha moment and then realize, they were telling me all the same thing although I didn't realize it at the time. It just took that one person to phase it in such a way that really made it pop.

 

[B.E.G.]

I'm sorry Mom of Redheads that you had such a frustrating lesson.

Honestly, to put things in perspective, I'm going to go back to what my instructor told me at the beginning of my most recent lesson. He told me, "I'm going to pinpoint one or two major things for you to work on, and I want you to focus on that." I think it's VERY easy to get overwhelmed with minutiae - all of what you said needs work is important, but I think it's daunting to be inundated with all of that at once, in one lesson. I think your instructor should have given you one or two things to work so that you can focus on them, and THEN move on to other stuff - and of course, I also think positive reinforcement is really important too.

I walked away from my lesson feeling like I really accomplished something and not feeling bogged down with all the things I can't do yet (and THAT list would run on...and on...and on...).

So don't stress too much. We're ALL works in progress as skiers, right? And Rome wasn't built in a day. Think about all the things you CAN do rather than all the things you can't YET - and then slowly start working on one improvement at a time.

 

[Perty]

I think we all learn in different ways, and sometimes one instructor's methods just don't chime compared with another. I am someone who needs to know why I am doing something. About 14 years ago, after pretty bad tuition (French Ski School, not always the best!), I read up on technique in a book and video by a chap called Ali Ross (used to be based in Tignes, not sure if he still teaches). Though his instruction then may not now be the current trend, it just made sense. It helped that he actually explained what makes a ski turn! A real light bulb moment. Why oh why had I never been told that?

There is no point in telling someone to keep their hands forwards, if all that means is that their hands are forward and their bottom is sticking out! Instruction like that is trying to treat the symptom and not the problem.

Other examples for me are the following-in bumps I was originally told to absorb the bumps by bringing my legs up. My brain could not put that into action. However, when told to push the feet and skis down between the bumps-I got it. Or, the old "keep the weight forward over the skis" thing. Was always pretty rubbish about putting that concept into practice, though after a season in France my technique was OK in that dept. More recently I have been told to pull my foot back under me-I can now feel the ski gripping even more, and clearly my weight is more in the right place.

So, it's not you!!

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Forty lashes to the instructor for her multiple errors and misguided approach!!
IMHO, this was unprofessional, period. Anyone can be critical and point out errors. What is supposed to distinguish one who simply critiques from one who can provide input and drills (many of them FUN) is what makes a ski instructor.

I hope at least a couple of other instructors will chime in here, with consolation and encouragement. I’ve watched an instructor at work all of my skiing years: as a recipient of input and an observer.

Every good instructor should have a substantial “bag of tricks.” After watching the student ski, start pulling out those tricks and working on fun things, requesting input from the student as to how something feels. I’m not an instructor, and I can think of at least half a dozen things that I’d introduce that are fun, focus on some of these issues and would give you a clear feel for how it helps when done correctly. Without ever introducing a word of negativity or the word “wrong” anywhere.

Stance, downhill shoulders, downhill ski pressure/weight transfer, hands position: this is all fundamental stuff for which there are MANY drills. Shame on this instructor for not turning this lesson into a fun way to improve, and for working on things in a more logical order. It really was too much to process all at once. So sorry it was a bad experience for you. It should NOT have been...

 

[SkiBam]

So sorry to hear about the bad lesson. I really think you should contact the ski school and explain that you weren't satisfied. Otherwise, they have no way of knowing if a client isn't happy.

I have to confess I wasn't watching you closely from an "instructor" point of view as you were keeping up just fine and were totally in control. Also, I'm hesitant to give any advice unless it's specifically asked for.

But in thinking back, perhaps you might want to try the "pole drag" drill. Mountainxtc can correct me, but I would suggest dragging both pole tips on the snow throughout the entire turn. Pole baskets should be about even with your feet.

If done properly, this exercise will help you keep the downhill arm down, which in turn gets you more over the outside ski. Plus it helps keep your shoulders parallel with the hill and upper body quiet.

Another exercise I like to do (it helps my own skiing) is to lift the tail of the inside ski as I make the turn. This really helps me get over the outside ski and by lifting just the tail (keep the tip on the snow), it gets you centred over the downhill foot. If you're in the backseat, it's pretty much impossible to do.

Jilly, other ideas?

 

[2ski2moro]

Remember the old joke - What is the difference between God and a Ski Instructor? God doesn't think He is a ski instructor.

While it's too late for this to work for you, I would like to make a recommendation for everyone.

Don't be afraid to get your money's worth from a lesson. If you don't feel that you have gotten the value you paid for, go to the ski school and report back. They need the feedback about the instructor so that others don't have the same bad experience. The ski school may just offer you another lesson. Take it.

During the lesson, do not be afraid to speak up and tell them that you do not understand or that s/he is not being clear in the explanation. A good ski instructor has many tricks and drills to use. Maybe a different approach will be just the trick.

That ski instructor was just not right for you. She may not be a good ski instructor, either. Just know that it's not you with the problem, it's her. You didn't pay for a critique of your style; you paid to be taught how to ski better.

You need to work on one thing at a time. Celebrate your tiny achievements. It will all come in time. My signature is a way of life, you know. "If you are having fun, you are doing it right."

Stop practicing and Go Play.

 

[geargrrl]

Hopefully there was just one useful thing you were able to take out of the lesson: a drill, a visualization?

 

[bounceswoosh]

This instructor put way too much information out there for one hour. (Er, how many runs is one hour, anyway? Can't be many?) In my experience, an instructor wouldn't go over all that even in a full day. Did she give you any drills at all?

 

[Allie]

Better than getting nothing out of the lesson

At least you got feedback. What I would recommend is that you look online for ski tip videos that provides drills and a clear picture as to what skiing with your (1) shoulders down the hill, (2) putting more pressure on the downhill ski, and (3) what the instructor means by holding your hands and poles too high. I don't think it is too much to work with and there a few very simple drills you can do on your own that will allow you to "get it" very quickly on your own. You will feel the difference.

My girls and I are up in Whistler this week. The youngest on the first day had all three of the issues your instuctor pointed out to you in your lesson. She had three days of lesson in Whistler last Christmas and about four additional ski days. Her older sister and I have had fourand six lessons each respectively and more time on the snow. We all basically needed a refresher.

The solution? We dialed it down and worked on the green slopes to get the youngest shoulders squared to the hill. We did (a) "picture windows" (poles up in the air focused on a "picture" straight below you try to keep while you ski down the hill; (b) "serving trays" poles laying across the top of your mitts/gloves like a tray held to be delivered to someone at the bottom of the hill etc.; (c) to help with balance and get the downhill foot working more than the other we did "bicycle peddles". I tell them to think of going down the hill like riding a bike. Hands out in front with upper body always facing down the hill where you are going. As you move into a turn I told them to think they are pushing on the peddle/foot closest to the bottom of the hill and taking the pressue off the upper peddle/foot with your skis always in contact. The last set of drills we were strictly for balance. (d) "one foot skier" - We lift the upper ski swiching side to side as we head down the slope.

All these drills kept the oldest from being bored and moved the youngest onto blues and bumps with ease. All of us noticed as a result we had better balance on the blues and the little blacks we ventured on in the afternoon.

The youngest took a ride tribe lesson on our second day here. They placed here in a level 4 group. She was essentially with the boys. She told me they did the terrain park and got some air. They also did several black runs, bumps and worked on speed control.

To be honest I was quite concerned as my last lesson I learned nothing. It was a super group lesson and at least one of the three people in the group shouldn't have been there. We did green runs and I waited down the hill the majority of the time waiting for the instructor and student who continued to fall. At noon I asked to switched out and was told "sorry, no other instructors available'. I complained after the lesson and by email. NADA. Not even an acknowledgment back. Super group is over $300 for the day. I tried a group level four lesson also last year which was even a bigger mistake. Again we stayed on the green to accomodate the lowest common denominator. This is where I discovered skiing on one ski on my own to avoid boredom.

Yesterday we were out on Blackcomb and I am finding I am barely keeping up to the girls now. We have skied every blue on both mountains. We did three of the easier blacks yesterday as well and more bumps than I care to talk about. I can see that they want to move right off the blues and I am not 100% comfortable with that so I know I too could use a lesson so the girls don't say what you are hearing from your boys that they have more fun without me tagging along...sigh...

Your instructor maybe could have handled things better but really it is only three things to work on and those three things really pay off once you get them right.

Hugs

 

[Mom of Redheads]

I knew I could count on the divas to help me find some perspective and make me feel better! A good night's sleep helped too; I feel a little better about this today!

I suppose I could have complained about the lesson, but I felt a little at fault. Taking one was an impulse - so I missed the group start times, couldn't do it later, and was accommodated for an hour. And, I am sure that the instructor didn't feel too good after the lesson either! It must have been equally frustrating for her to watch me not "get" it - and so she probably kept trying to say the same things different ways, or maybe try to work on something else - and voila! Information overload. Also, I think the school called it a "level 7" lesson and while I can ski the blacks, my technique is clearly not up to par and maybe she assumed I had a bigger base of "technical knowledge" than I actually do. No doubt she recognized that what she was saying wasn't clicking for me... so she probably tried to keep offering more! I hope she was able to shake off our hour together better than I was!

But, having had time to think, it's clear that since I have to "de-program" my skiing (her words), I will need to find some drills. Just trying to concentrate on what she said probably will be too much to think about at once. And drilling will provide repetition, which will be necessary to make a permanent change to my habits.

Further, I think the thing I really, really wasn't getting was the whole "stance" issue. She showed me this one position (almost triangular in nature), where her hips and knees were over the uphill ski and body/shoulders turned downhill and thus more over the downhill one. I tried to put myself into the same position she showed me, and it was an absolute disaster! But, I think getting my weight on the downhill ski and getting my shoulders and arms into better position will likely put the rest of my body into a (more) correct position just by virtue of needing to stay in balance.

Of everything she mentioned, I am probably going to find it easiest to "isolate" the downhill ski and/or upper body issues... plus I can switch off working first one then the other without getting bored or frustrated.

She did have me do one drill, where we were skiing on a black and she had me cross the trail while standing on the downhill ski only. Then turning - then crossing again while picking up the uphill ski. She only had me do it a couple of times before she tried to move on to something else, but I did get a better sense of what it felt like to have my weight on the bottom ski. So I will try that on our local hill (it's not good for much beyond drilling, LOL), and I will try SkiBam's pole drag drill as well.

Allie, do you have any links to the videos you mentioned? They sound like exactly what I need!

Thanks again for your quick reassurance and weighing in... my humor has finally resurfaced and I can laugh about my day... first, "The Lesson!" Then, realizing my boys went from not really being able to ski with me to not WANTING to ski with me (because I don't want to do moguls and double blacks) in just one season. Last, getting knocked on my a$$ and given whiplash by an 8 year old on the last run of the vacation! No wonder I was traumatized! Thank heavens for retail therapy...

 

[Serafina]

Retail therapy is a favorite for me, too!

One thing that came to my mind with the drills was the pivot slip drill. I don't know if you did these, but they really helped in my last clinic for that thing with the shoulders, and you have to have your weight balanced or you won't be able to do them at all. I am not going to do a great job of describing these, but if you did them you will probably recognize them. We stood with ours skis parallel to the fall line (in place, and edged into the hill, not pointed down the hill). Then we faced our torsos down the fall line and flattened our skis so that they swung around to point down the fall line, and let them keep swinging so that they wound up pointing in the opposite direction from the start point (i.e., if we started with the tips facing skier's right, we let them swing all the way around to skier's left). And back again, back again, jiggity jig, all the while keeping our torsos firmly pointed down the hill. MSL said this is one of the most important skills for skiing bumps, but we were just using it to improve stance and position (we weren't in the bumps or going into them).

Better luck with your next lesson! I will keep my fingers crossed that you draw a better instructor!

 

[volklgirl]

She told me (in about an hours' time), that (long list to follow) my stance is all wrong; my shoulders aren't facing downhill; I'm skiing on my uphill ski and not putting pressure on the downhill one; my hands/poles are too high, etc, etc. ... but everytime I thought I was getting at least some of it right, she kept saying "no, no, you're still not doing it."

She may be perfectly nice, but she sucks as an instructor and needs to be shot.

 

[Mom of Redheads]

She may be perfectly nice, but she sucks as an instructor and needs to be shot.

Thanks. You had me laughing until I was crying with this one! I will never share this poor woman's name as she has now been soundly lambasted on Ski Diva!

I should at least mention that she did leave me with at least one other useful tip: as I skied toward the base - trying to concentrate on everything and succeeding at nothing - I stopped short. She came up to me and asked why I had stopped. When I said it was because I knew I wasn't managing to do anything we had talked about, she said "well, at least you knew enough to stop and regroup.":ROTF::ROTF::ROTF:

Yes, truly a useful tip. Regularly stopping and regrouping will certainly help me keep up with my boys!

@Allie - I agree that your super group lessons sound even less useful than mine was! Now, while I'm not sure I'd bother to complain about my experience - I would certainly be much more likely to complain about yours. Sorry you got no response.

 

[Jilly]

I thought that this was an old thread. My bad. When you mentioned that you hadn't had a lesson is a while, I thought, well you're skiing with two level 2's-----so do you want some help? Like SkiBam, you were getting through so I wasn't really paying attention. I do remember SkiBam asking you about flexing your boots. And we had that discussion later at the Shack.

The pole drag would be one drill. Also an edging drill. I noticed that you edge, but not enough. Roller blade turns on green terrain. Trust your edges on the steeper stuff.

All in all you did well on the ice on Fuddle-Duddle. Not my best choice eh! And its still icy today!

 

[Mom of Redheads]

^^^^Well, I would never have asked, because I was having so much fun and wouldn't want to take advantage of your professional skills (like all those doctors and dentists who constantly get asked for free advice at cocktail parties)...

I really just wanted to enjoy my first time meeting other divas and skiing on your beautiful mountain! And I had a wonderful time. If we had overlapped more over the week, I might have asked if we could arrange a lesson officially on another day... Next time, maybe.

I checked with Salomon and the boot I wear doesn't have a flex adjustment. And I asked the instructor if my boots might be too stiff and she said a stiff boot was better because otherwise when you put pressure on your ski, the boot just collapses onto your ski; the pressure doesn't translate into the ground...

 

[bounceswoosh]

I agree with Volklgirl. That instructor was, at the least, not having a good day.

But actually - the idea that if you know that it's not coming together, you should stop and regroup - that has merit. In the short term, it won't help you keep up, but in the long term, remember that falling and having to get up is definitely slower (and riskier!) than stopping, getting it together, and starting again.