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Flexibility Article
- Thread starter Lisamarie
- Start date
Okay - a few questions:
It says to be cautious of the downward dog and plank, but to me, those are fabulous (when done slowly and smoothly) to build my arms and wrists. And wrist, shoulder and arm strength is actually very important to me for sports (for downhilling and riding my motorcycle). So I regularly functionally am pushing my weight back from collapsing on my handlebars (or preventing an endo) and that feels like I'm simulating my sport activity but in a smooth, controlled environment. And it feels like it does build strength by going slowly and supporting my body weight over and over again.
Am I totally off base with this? I do other strength training, but not a ton of it. My schedule is basically - spin class 3-5x/wk, weights and balance work 2x/wk, yoga 2x/wk immediately after spin class, and skiing (now more biking than skiing) a few times a week.
Yoga has really helped my knees feel better, mostly due to the fact that it's loosened up my IT bands, which tend to cause a lot of my knee pain. And better yet, it cured my back problem. I had a "dish" to my spine between my shoulder blades that the chiropractor couldn't loosen up. He'd been working on it for years and basically given up - I'd just go in when I'd start getting pain shooting down my arms, etc. I went in again after 6 months of yoga and he was stunned. The dish is finally gone. So yay for yoga.
Though I totally agree that it's not something you should do in isolation. And you shouldn't push positions, especially into unnatural positions or something you don't need to do anyway.
I also wonder about the spinning. I did some one legged squats today after spin class and was STUNNED how easy they were. I've just been doing my same old leg press, stiff legged deadlifts, etc. when I lift. Last time I tried a one legged squat (like 6-8 months ago) it really hurt my knees and I felt like I could barely do it. Today I could easily do sets of 12 with no pain or discomfort at all. I know you traditionally get all sorts of "don't push big gears on a bike or it'll hurt your knee", but I've been pushing it pretty hard in spin class lately (well, pulling with hamstrings more than pushing to get the pedals around when it's heavy) and my knees feel way better than normal, and my strength is obviously very much improved. Am I setting myself up for something bad even though it feels so good?
It says to be cautious of the downward dog and plank, but to me, those are fabulous (when done slowly and smoothly) to build my arms and wrists. And wrist, shoulder and arm strength is actually very important to me for sports (for downhilling and riding my motorcycle). So I regularly functionally am pushing my weight back from collapsing on my handlebars (or preventing an endo) and that feels like I'm simulating my sport activity but in a smooth, controlled environment. And it feels like it does build strength by going slowly and supporting my body weight over and over again.
Am I totally off base with this? I do other strength training, but not a ton of it. My schedule is basically - spin class 3-5x/wk, weights and balance work 2x/wk, yoga 2x/wk immediately after spin class, and skiing (now more biking than skiing) a few times a week.
Yoga has really helped my knees feel better, mostly due to the fact that it's loosened up my IT bands, which tend to cause a lot of my knee pain. And better yet, it cured my back problem. I had a "dish" to my spine between my shoulder blades that the chiropractor couldn't loosen up. He'd been working on it for years and basically given up - I'd just go in when I'd start getting pain shooting down my arms, etc. I went in again after 6 months of yoga and he was stunned. The dish is finally gone. So yay for yoga.
Though I totally agree that it's not something you should do in isolation. And you shouldn't push positions, especially into unnatural positions or something you don't need to do anyway.
I also wonder about the spinning. I did some one legged squats today after spin class and was STUNNED how easy they were. I've just been doing my same old leg press, stiff legged deadlifts, etc. when I lift. Last time I tried a one legged squat (like 6-8 months ago) it really hurt my knees and I felt like I could barely do it. Today I could easily do sets of 12 with no pain or discomfort at all. I know you traditionally get all sorts of "don't push big gears on a bike or it'll hurt your knee", but I've been pushing it pretty hard in spin class lately (well, pulling with hamstrings more than pushing to get the pedals around when it's heavy) and my knees feel way better than normal, and my strength is obviously very much improved. Am I setting myself up for something bad even though it feels so good?
Lisamarie, I too am interested in your thoughts re: wrist flexion in the downward dog and plank poses. It seems to me that some of the arm balances put more stress on my wrists because my core is not strong enough to support my body on top of my hands, while I do have enough core strength to support the body while in downward dog and plank. Maybe the caveat should be that a yogi should engage the core to prevent injuries to other body parts, including wrists?
I do agree with your earlier instructors that chastized those who had greater flexibility than strength. A few weeks ago in class, I told my instructor that a particular pose was challenging to me because I have inflexible hamstrings compared to many other yogis. She said that inflexibility was common among athletes, but I can't remember for what reason (muscles got in the way of something). Nevertheless, she said to wear it like a badge. Hee. Like altagirl, the poses that emphasize the hip flexors and hip openings have helped a lot with IT band issues.
In the end, it means that I sometimes long for my gymnast days, when I had strength AND flexibility. Then again, I hated the uneven bars and the beam.
I do agree with your earlier instructors that chastized those who had greater flexibility than strength. A few weeks ago in class, I told my instructor that a particular pose was challenging to me because I have inflexible hamstrings compared to many other yogis. She said that inflexibility was common among athletes, but I can't remember for what reason (muscles got in the way of something). Nevertheless, she said to wear it like a badge. Hee. Like altagirl, the poses that emphasize the hip flexors and hip openings have helped a lot with IT band issues.
In the end, it means that I sometimes long for my gymnast days, when I had strength AND flexibility. Then again, I hated the uneven bars and the beam.
SnowDancer
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
wrist flexion
I've been taking a Stretch & Strenghten class at least once a week for years and, for those in the class with wrist issues (due to lack of strength, arthritis, etc.) in these types of positions, the instructor has suggested this option: Instead of palms on the floor, make a fist and rest on your knuckles; switch between the two as needed. As your strength/tolerance increases, you may very well be able to maintain the palms down position.
I've been taking a Stretch & Strenghten class at least once a week for years and, for those in the class with wrist issues (due to lack of strength, arthritis, etc.) in these types of positions, the instructor has suggested this option: Instead of palms on the floor, make a fist and rest on your knuckles; switch between the two as needed. As your strength/tolerance increases, you may very well be able to maintain the palms down position.
Personally, I love the downward dog, plank, etc. for a simple reason: There are so many wrist and shoulder injuries that occur form these positions. Since I often work with people who are in their post rehab stages, it's great for business! So I really hope that yoga instructors keep teaching those postures! :D :p ;)
Now getting serious: The truth is, no one form of fitness is good for everyone. Unfortunately, people tend to gravitate towards whatever comes easiest to them. As a result, you see more men in the weight room, and the women all flock to yoga class. In many cases, it should be the other way around.
BUT.... Nothing is ever that simple. Some women have more male hormones than others. You can tell by the body type: small hips, small breasts and not too many curves. Body fat is pretty low and metabolism is high. These gals may have the same types of flexibility issues that guys have, so yoga is actually good for them.
But let's look at the other scenario: Take a woman who is somewhat curvy. Without aerobics, weight training and diet, she would probably be overweight. She is usually pretty loose jointed and she may have small, hyperextended wrists. Let's say she works all day at a computer, at a workstation that is less than optimal, ergonomically. Put her in a downward dog position, and it's curtains.
If she continues to do yoga exclusively, she will always have a weight problem, and her muscles will never be toned. Futhermore, if she keeps over stretching her hamstrings, she is messing around with a muscular imbalance between the hamstrings and quads. Put her on the slopes, and that's the express path to an ACL tear.
Pequenta, when you say you have tight hamstrings for a yogi, that may actually be a good thing. Most ski instructors will tell you that if you are skiing correctly, you will be feeling your hamstrings more than your quads.
Speaking of tight hamstrings, in some cases, even that is sometimes misdiagnosed. In some cases, the real issue is the hip flexors. Stay with me on this. If your hip flexors are tight, they will take over the work that the hamstrings are supposed to be doing. This trains the hamstrings to become progressively weaker, so in any task that they are designed to perform, they are going to hurt like crazy. In some cases, when people stretched their hip flexors, their hamstrings no longer felt so tight.
Back to the gender thing. If you read the thread on Epic about the 5 second stretch, you will notice that some guys said that they stopped getting injured after they stopped using stretch as a warmup. So even men, who usually need more flexibility than women, can get hurt by too much pre-skiing stretching.
Now getting serious: The truth is, no one form of fitness is good for everyone. Unfortunately, people tend to gravitate towards whatever comes easiest to them. As a result, you see more men in the weight room, and the women all flock to yoga class. In many cases, it should be the other way around.
BUT.... Nothing is ever that simple. Some women have more male hormones than others. You can tell by the body type: small hips, small breasts and not too many curves. Body fat is pretty low and metabolism is high. These gals may have the same types of flexibility issues that guys have, so yoga is actually good for them.
But let's look at the other scenario: Take a woman who is somewhat curvy. Without aerobics, weight training and diet, she would probably be overweight. She is usually pretty loose jointed and she may have small, hyperextended wrists. Let's say she works all day at a computer, at a workstation that is less than optimal, ergonomically. Put her in a downward dog position, and it's curtains.
If she continues to do yoga exclusively, she will always have a weight problem, and her muscles will never be toned. Futhermore, if she keeps over stretching her hamstrings, she is messing around with a muscular imbalance between the hamstrings and quads. Put her on the slopes, and that's the express path to an ACL tear.
Pequenta, when you say you have tight hamstrings for a yogi, that may actually be a good thing. Most ski instructors will tell you that if you are skiing correctly, you will be feeling your hamstrings more than your quads.
Speaking of tight hamstrings, in some cases, even that is sometimes misdiagnosed. In some cases, the real issue is the hip flexors. Stay with me on this. If your hip flexors are tight, they will take over the work that the hamstrings are supposed to be doing. This trains the hamstrings to become progressively weaker, so in any task that they are designed to perform, they are going to hurt like crazy. In some cases, when people stretched their hip flexors, their hamstrings no longer felt so tight.
Back to the gender thing. If you read the thread on Epic about the 5 second stretch, you will notice that some guys said that they stopped getting injured after they stopped using stretch as a warmup. So even men, who usually need more flexibility than women, can get hurt by too much pre-skiing stretching.
Lisamarie said:
Okay so:
1. I don't fit neatly into a category. I'm very curvy with a really muscular upper body and big wrists/hands (for a woman). Like I have the upper body of the athletic/build, but a skinny waist and big hips, not the straight line build you normally see with that. I'm very flexible in some directions (forward bend, quad stretches) but not in others (hips, IT bands are awful, etc).
2. What types of wrist injuries are we talking here? Are these brought on by people pushing through pain and doing too much or sudden traumatic types of injuries that happen with no warning? If I'm not feeling any strain during the position, and no soreness or anything afterwards, does that mean this is within my strength capability?
I guess what I'm asking is - should NO ONE be doing these positions? Or should people with weak wrists, shoulders, upper bodies, etc. be avoiding these positions? And if so - what do you reccommend for building hand/wrist strength? I end up with a lot of elbow pain when I lift heavy weights (I can't find a pain-free curl position), but I've never gotten any pain from yoga, other than muscle soreness in my core (both back and abs)
3. How do you measure hamstring vs. quad strength or stiffness? I've seen stuff on correct percentages before, but since you're not supposed to do leg extensions with bad knees, I have no idea how to measure one vs. the other to know where I'm at. I just do a lot of hamstring work and hope that's helping.
Thanks, Lisamarie. It's been so long since I the last time I was on skis that I can't remember where I feel it! I'll keep it in mind next season.
In the meantime, I think that yoga (sans the dastardly splits!)complements my running training. I like hanging out in a headstand. :D
In the meantime, I think that yoga (sans the dastardly splits!)complements my running training. I like hanging out in a headstand. :D
