Edging Assistance - Nordica Santa Ana 93's

[KayOss]

Problem: I cannot get my new skis to edge.
Equipment: Nordica Santa Ana 93, 158cm
Level: Advanced
Location: West of the Rockies (Mammoth, SLC, Snowbowl, Tahoe)

Bought these in December and have used them around 10 times. First two days they ran out from under me throwing me in the back seat. Really worked on my forward positioning and still unable to set an edge; focusing on initiating the turn sooner but cannot get the them to lock in. Soft snow is better but I cannot seem to stay centered and drive the ski where I want them to go.
(Previous skis were Nordica Olympia Conqueror at 84 wide and 153cm)
I've been open minded about my technique, took a lesson (helped a little) and wondering what can I do to stop the frustration (I want to have fun skiing and not feel like it's a labor to make my sticks turn).
I know there has been discussion on these skis but did not see anything pertaining to my dilemma. If I cannot get them under control by the end of this season, they're hitting the ski swap!
Any suggestions Divas?

Kay

 

[Knitjenious]

Others will have better advice about this ski -- but any possibility you have a bad tune?? It sounds like you are doing all the right things to work on technique!

 

[MissySki]

I was going to ask about the tune as well.. have you had a ski shop take a look? Also, are the bindings different than what you usually use? Some of us (me definitely me..) are very sensitive to differences in binding ramp angle, and higher angles can cause issues with being unable to get forward easily on your skis. Many don’t notice these differences at all though, so that is not necessarily an issue you’d be worrying about.

 

[Jilly]

I had the Conqueror's too years ago. The Santa Anna is a different animal. I suspect the anatomy of the SA's are the issue. (I had the SA 88's and hated them. Couldn't edge them at all.)
93mm wide means you need to make a very high angle to get that ski on edge on harder snow. I've know there are diagrams out there that show this.
Also the tip and tail are rockered. So you don't have 158cm of ski, more like 100cm. The Conquerors were not built like that at all. This is called "effective edge".

So ideas
1. try another lesson.
2. check the tune as has been mentioned
3. Demo the same ski, in a longer length, therefore more effective edge.

 

[lisamamot]

I ski the Santa Ana 93 172 from a couple seasons ago and have taken them from New England to Tahoe, to Taos and to Big Sky and have never had an issue with mine. That said, I am unsure what changes have been in the last couple of seasons. I do feel the Santa Ana prefers a more forward stance than some of my other skis.

Couple of questions:
Did you ski them straight out of the wrapper or did you have them checked with a true bar, etc? Having the tune taken a look at will help determine if there is an obvious equipment issue.

What are your specs (height/weight)? Perhaps it is a sizing issue.

 

[Chuyi]

I am with the bad tune crew. They ran the belt on your edge or flattened the angle. Have an expert tuner check.

 

[slow_biscuits]

I just demoed this ski today and I felt the same way! They were really surfy and difficult for me to edge. I assumed it’s because I usually ski 84-88 waist and these were substantially wider for me. I DID finally manage to edge them but even when I did they felt “soft” to me like I wasn’t getting a good bite. I didn’t love them . I assumed it was my technique and not the ski. But maybe a bit of both.

 

[KayOss]

My sizing is 5'2" 115 lbs
@Knitjenious ,@MissySki , @Jilly, @lisamamot @Chuyi - I did check the flatness to see if I was bottom high but have not looked at the edge degree. I have never had an issue with sensitivity to bindings on other skis but it too is a possibility.
Thanks for the input and I'll keep you posted what I find out.

 

[mustski]

I would think tune also. When you checked the “flatness, did you check it tip to tail with a true bar (or a level)? A ski that wide won’t carve like a ski with a 68 waist but it should still hold an edge.

Also… for those of you (@MissySki) who like a negative or flat binding delta… I just found out today that Marker has switched up their demo bindings and they are going to have a +5 delta in 2025. I jumped online and bought a squire 11demo with a tcx heel because I love that negative delta!

 

[MissySki]

I would think tune also. When you checked the “flatness, did you check it tip to tail with a true bar (or a level)? A ski that wide won’t carve like a ski with a 68 waist but it should still hold an edge.

Also… for those of you (@MissySki) who like a negative or flat binding delta… I just found out today that Marker has switched up their demo bindings and they are going to have a +5 delta in 2025. I jumped online and bought a squire 11demo with a tcx heel because I love that negative delta!

Oh no!!! That’s definitely the Squire demo as well???? I will be buying a couple of pairs myself then too.. darn it! I really like that the current Squire demo is as it is, especially because many of the skis I demo tend to have them mounted which works out well for me. Why in the world would they make such a drastic change?? I mean.. we can have them adjusted after the fact, but still. :(

Did you find anywhere with a particularly good deal for them currently @mustski ?

 

[elemmac]

I know there has been discussion on these skis but did not see anything pertaining to my dilemma. If I cannot get them under control by the end of this season, they're hitting the ski swap!
Any suggestions Divas?

I'd start with a tune...that is the easiest thing to rule out. Tell the shop guy when you drop them off that they "feel base high" and have been difficult to get on edge. Ask for a full tune, including a base grind to make sure they're completely flat.

 

[mustski]

Oh no!!! That’s definitely the Squire demo as well???? I will be buying a couple of pairs myself then too.. darn it! I really like that the current Squire demo is as it is, especially because many of the skis I demo tend to have them mounted which works out well for me. Why in the world would they make such a drastic change?? I mean.. we can have them adjusted after the fact, but still. :(

Did you find anywhere with a particularly good deal for them currently @mustski ?

No. They seem to be running right around $200 - give or take $10.

 

[Chuyi]

@KayOss I looked up your old skis they are parabolic skis. The skis were all edges compared to your new rocker skis. You can try going up a size & the edges will feel the same as your old skis.

 

[Trailside Trixie]

I am about to ski mine on saturday for the first time. My first thought would be to check the tune.

 

[KayOss]

First, thanks for all the input!
I checked the base flatness with a flat bar and light - all good and flat.
The edges were at 0º probably from the side grind before I got them. I asked my ski tech (aka husband) to confirm and add about 3º.
@Chuyi you are 100% on the comparison of my old vs. newer skis. The new rockers shortened the effective edge by 2"! (and we didn't think we needed math back in school)

So today we skied the local mtn. and good news they got about 9" of new snow so I didn't get to try them on the conditions I've been struggling with. However, I did seem to notice a difference in my turn initiation both on the steeper runs and on the flat outs. Not sure this makes sense having a fresh tune and softer conditions but I had a good day.

Thanks again and stay tuned for my next update -

 

[KayOss]

EDIT: The new rockers shortened the effective edge by 6"! (and we didn't think we needed math back in school)

 

[marzNC]

EDIT: The new rockers shortened the effective edge by 6"! (and we didn't think we needed math back in school)

How does the Turn Radius compare?

 

[contesstant]

Shorter effective edge should make them easier to turn. EXCEPT wider skis can feel cumbersome if you aren’t used to them.

Binding delta can also play a huge role. I’m about to start a whole new thread on that. I have learned a lot since I got into the short cuff boots this season.

 

[KayOss]

How does the Turn Radius compare?

Turn radius is 14 vs 14.4 (old vs new)

 

[Trailside Trixie]

Skied my Santa Ana 93s today in Southern Vermont spring slush with a bit of hard pack mixed in and omg are these skis phenomenal. Welcome to the quiver my ski friend.