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Easier to ski out West than East?

frenchgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I just read Toughgirl's report on Colorado skiing. Is it easier to ski powder than eastern conditions? I am just curious because when we had one powder day here(probably halfway to my knees at most) I had a very hard time skiing. But maybe it was wet powder vs fluffy :noidea: I don't know much about powder. Isn't deep powder hard to ski?
 

Pequenita

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
In theory, skiing technique isn't supposed to change that significantly if you are skiing on ice, powder, and everything in between. Since our technique usually is less than perfect, we tend to pick up and get away with bad habits on our usual terrain that often get exacerbated when we switch terrain. So, it's not unsual to find skiers accustomed to ice flail in powder and vice versa. I think powder does get to a depth where, in conjunction with one's size, it becomes challenging to ski. And it also gets heavy enough that it's hard work.

I would think that it's probably "easier" to learn to ski in the west/powder b/c when you fall, it doesn't hurt as much, if at all, as it does in the east. Since falling is part of the learning process, it takes a little more guts to take chances and improve if you know that it'll hurt if you fall. However, I'd be hesitant to say one is easier than another because it's all based on what you're accustomed to.
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Isn't deep powder hard to ski?

I've had my third deep powder day this week. This topic has come up this week frequently from guests at the resort and others.

So, I'll take a shot. Yes and no. Yes, in the beginning for several reasons: 1) It's hard to get practice in pow. Sometimes pow days are weeks apart, so skill-building is hard because powder days are too many times elusive--the right conditions on the day that you happen to be there with the right equipment (except this week in Utah where fresh powder is in abundance every day, but this is so rare). 2) because powder skiing requires adjustments in technique and mindset. keeping the skis together, evenly balanced, and tips from diving. 3) and you need to go a bit steeper in the deeper snow to keep the momentum.

No, because once you learn how to ride the deeps, it's fun, it's addicting, and you will find it takes little real skill. And getting the right boards helps.......don't just jump in with your carving skis and turn like you do on hard pack-----you will end up upside down. Just getting used to the slo-mo aspects of riding the 'wave' of snow and not rushing it takes time......patience.

once you get a real face shot, you are hooked. :D
 

Snowsong

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
My first trip West a few years ago, there hadn't been any new snow in a month, so the conditions weren't much different than skiing the East. My trip last week to the West was totally different. We had about 18" of powder the one day. I was demoing skis all week, so I asked for a powder ski that day. I have to admit my first 2 runs, I was thinking "ice is nice," because I never get to ski powder like that. But then I had my "aha" moment, and it was fun, and yes, addicting. :bounce: It just seemed harder at first, but it really was just a different feeling.
 

cinnabon

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I've had my third deep powder day this week. This topic has come up this week frequently from guests at the resort and others.

So, I'll take a shot. Yes and no. Yes, in the beginning for several reasons: 1) It's hard to get practice in pow. Sometimes pow days are weeks apart, so skill-building is hard because powder days are too many times elusive--the right conditions on the day that you happen to be there with the right equipment (except this week in Utah where fresh powder is in abundance every day, but this is so rare). 2) because powder skiing requires adjustments in technique and mindset. keeping the skis together, evenly balanced, and tips from diving. 3) and you need to go a bit steeper in the deeper snow to keep the momentum.

No, because once you learn how to ride the deeps, it's fun, it's addicting, and you will find it takes little real skill. And getting the right boards helps.......don't just jump in with your carving skis and turn like you do on hard pack-----you will end up upside down. Just getting used to the slo-mo aspects of riding the 'wave' of snow and not rushing it takes time......patience.

once you get a real face shot, you are hooked. :D
This make me feel better! I am having such a hard time, even with my new powder skis. Part of the issue is the powder is often so inconsistent with bumps underneath, and I just have a hard time relaxing. Even though my new skis are less likely to dive, I still find myself leaning back, and I just can't get my balance centered. Next year I will make a point of taking some powder lessons. I want to love it... hopefully eventually!:snow:

My take on what's easiest is a soft packed powder surface, maybe with 2 or 3 inches of fresh snow on top... anyone can ski on that!
 

toughgirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I found it a little confusing to hit the powder at first b/c i was sooo used to ice. But I found that when there is ACTUALLY snow on the slope the ski does what it is meant to do, grip and edge. Where as on ice you just sliding around. I was able to ski steeps that I wouldn't even dare do on the east coast b/c of ice.
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
All powder is not equal. There is heavy powder, which is difficult for me to power through and requires power turning, not my forte. There is powder on top of frozen crud---which means, you have to respond to two or three layers of different snow types. There is powder with wind drifts, which means terrain varies in depth and crystal make-up (soft, crunchy, slick). There is the dream pow (this April week in Utah) of bottomless, dry, fluffy powder that is the most fun and exhilerating of all.

Equipment matters. A lady from Florida was skiing with us yesterday on carvers, and she did great---but struggled in her heavy carver skis, with some falls and stalls.

Steepness matters. A lot of skiers stay on intermediate groomers with five inches of snow----struggling with variable snow conditions in chopped powder in high traffic areas. And off trail, if you go low angle and misread a line, you are breaking trail up to your crotch. But many skiers are reluctant to traverse away from the traffice and take on a steep bowl in deep snow conditions, which is the perfect way to learn/ski the deep snow. Many years ago, I was told to learn to ski powder, you must be willing to 'earn the turns'. Staying on main trails just won't get you there, sorry.

Personally, I feel powder takes less skill than bumps and steep hard pack conditions which take a high degree of technical skill. Powder is great---if you are willing to go steep, traverse to the best stuff, and relax and take it slowly---you just cannot force a turn. In fact, I maintain the traverses to the best pow shots are much more difficult than the pow shots (the reward) at the end of the traverses.

I've just come off of three days of epic powder days and I think it's the greatest legal rush one can have on snow. But the pay dirt is not on the high traffic runs, even if they have six inches of freshies.
 

MaineSkiLady

Angel Diva
Think of it this way: skiing in different conditions is like driving a car in different conditions.
Allow me to explain (as this may sound far-fetched):
Skiing in the easiest of conditions (or at least what I’d consider “easy”), in packed powder, no ice, light fluff on top, is a lot like driving a car on dry roads.

When the road surface begins to vary, i.e., wet, icy, or snow covered, you’re still driving, but in a different way.

Although not a one-to-one correlation, this is how it is with skiing as well.

Different driving methods and techniques (such as how you apply your brakes or turn corners) are implemented when conditions are less than dry roads.

Different skiing techniques are brought into play when slope conditions vary.

New skiers have the same issues taking to deeper snow that new drivers have with the same. It’s a learning process.

That, however, is where the similarity ends! Skiing in deep snow is a WHOLE lot more fun than driving in it!

Also, just as there are types of cars that fare much better with snow driving, the same goes for skis.
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
No skier is naturally a powder skier-----it takes a fair amount of wallowing in and swallowing snow. And traversing to the deeper snow requires one to get out of their comfort zone. And when you get there, burning up your quads as you figure out the balance thing. And then not 'getting it' for the longest time. Until you do.

It takes seasons of persistent practice---or at least a week-long heli trip. I don't think one can just take a lesson on a day and make it happen. At least, that's my experience---but I'm a slow learner.
 

mollmeister

Angel Diva
All powder is not equal. There is heavy powder, which is difficult for me to power through and requires power turning, not my forte. There is powder on top of frozen crud---which means, you have to respond to two or three layers of different snow types. There is powder with wind drifts, which means terrain varies in depth and crystal make-up (soft, crunchy, slick). There is the dream pow (this April week in Utah) of bottomless, dry, fluffy powder that is the most fun and exhilerating of all.

Personally, I feel powder takes less skill than bumps and steep hard pack conditions which take a high degree of technical skill. Powder is great---if you are willing to go steep, traverse to the best stuff, and relax and take it slowly---you just cannot force a turn. In fact, I maintain the traverses to the best pow shots are much more difficult than the pow shots (the reward) at the end of the traverses.

I think the above are both great descriptions.

First, I agree that powder can mean a lot of things. Fluffy and deep on top of soft snow is the most fun. . . and the most rare. Moderate depth powder on top of *mystery meat* or alternating with stretches of wind compacted snow can be fun. . . but also frustrating. And the light, cold stuff is a WHOLE different beast from the deep, wet stuff (Sierra cement in CA), and all take different levels of skill, different techniques, and a different mind set.

Powder, when the *good stuff,* can take less skill than, say, bumps or technical steeps, with tight spots and drops. BUT, the skills you learn in the bumps and tight spots (quick feet, smearing turns when necessary, trusting your feet when you can't see what's next) can come in REAL handy in the non-optimal powder conditions. So there's a real relationship between the two.

I grew up skiing in the midwest and NE, and I never want to go back. One, because I am pretty sure I have lost some of my ice skiing skills (which you do have to acquire, through practice, just like bump or deep snow skills) and two, because the difficult stuff out here is just so much more FUN! (And there are a lot less people.)

When I first came to the west, I skied a lot of groomers, because I was intimidated by deep snow-- good stuff or pushed around. (Especially the CA deep snow.) Gradually, though, I have come to hate the groomers. Unless it's one of those days with creamy soft corduroy and empty slopes, and then I'll rip a few with a big grin, just like anyone else.

If I can (i.e., the snow is good enough), I spend the whole day on variable condition runs and bumps, and avoid groomers like the plague. For me, I equate bumps, pushed around snow, and powder runs to trail running. I always preferred trail running to just running on the road, because every step is different, and there is mental and physical challenge (avoiding rocks, jumping over roots, adjusting your stride to avoid destroying your knees on steep downhills) in every step. Off-piste skiing (and bump skiing) is much the same for me. I learn something new or cement a skill with every single turn, rather than just chilling with the same or similar turns over and over again. Does that make any sense?
 

marzNC

Angel Diva
Steepness matters. A lot of skiers stay on intermediate groomers with five inches of snow----struggling with variable snow conditions in chopped powder in high traffic areas. And off trail, if you go low angle and misread a line, you are breaking trail up to your crotch. But many skiers are reluctant to traverse away from the traffice and take on a steep bowl in deep snow conditions, which is the perfect way to learn/ski the deep snow. Many years ago, I was told to learn to ski powder, you must be willing to 'earn the turns'. Staying on main trails just won't get you there, sorry.

Personally, I feel powder takes less skill than bumps and steep hard pack conditions which take a high degree of technical skill. Powder is great---if you are willing to go steep, traverse to the best stuff, and relax and take it slowly---you just cannot force a turn. In fact, I maintain the traverses to the best pow shots are much more difficult than the pow shots (the reward) at the end of the traverses.

Definitely agree . . . from the point of view as someone who has only skied deep powder a few times. Last year some friends, expert skiers, took me onto Ballroom at Alta after a dump when it just opened. Encouraged me to do the longer traverse to the steeper section. I had a good time flowing down successfully making turns, although stopped by sitting a couple times to rest (and enjoy the view). Would love to be able to spend more time at Alta experiencing deep power more.
 

dloveski

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I learn something new or cement a skill with every single turn, rather than just chilling with the same or similar turns over and over again. Does that make any sense?

Yes!! perfect sense to me!
 

skiso

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I grew up skiing in the midwest and NE, and I never want to go back. One, because I am pretty sure I have lost some of my ice skiing skills (which you do have to acquire, through practice, just like bump or deep snow skills) and two, because the difficult stuff out here is just so much more FUN! (And there are a lot less people.)

When I first came to the west, I skied a lot of groomers, because I was intimidated by deep snow-- good stuff or pushed around. (Especially the CA deep snow.) Gradually, though, I have come to hate the groomers. Unless it's one of those days with creamy soft corduroy and empty slopes, and then I'll rip a few with a big grin, just like anyone else.

I agree with so much of this! The PNW's soft snow has made it possible for me to get off the groomers and explore other terrain. I'm limited by skill (and good sense) but that makes it all the more challenging and fun.
 

Skisailor

Angel Diva
Wow! This is all so encouraging! I am an experienced eastern skier who has only been skiing out west for a few years, so I am still a novice powder skier. But I've made enough turns in 1+ feet of snow to know that I want to do it ALOT more! (and alot better).

I watched Lito Tejada Flores' "powder and bumps" video which helped me with the basics - skis together, equal weight on both skis, centered stance - don't lean back, slow, patient turns, etc. And I've skied a few runs with enough speed to get that fabulous push back from underneath (does anyone know what I mean?) which gives you an amazing floating feeling! Wonderful!!

My problem is that I'm not controlling my speed or my turns the way I want to yet. In powder, the terrain is still dictating to me rather than the other way around, if you know what I mean. I don't have anyone to ski powder with, so I'm always going off looking for "baby powder" (nothing too terribly steep or deep) to practice in. I agree that The Ballroom at Alta is one of these, plus China Bowl at Vail, where we beginner powder skiers can dabble in the deep stuff then escape to the groomed if necessary. ;)

RE: the intimidation factor - It's not that I'm afraid of the falling part - in powder, it's kinda fun really. But, especially when you're alone, it can be damned hard to get yourself back upright, find any lost skis and get them back on your feet again in deep powder! :D

And as mentioned earlier in this thread, it's so hard to get enough practice time in! I managed to do some top to bottom runs in 12-14" on blue runs at Sunlight Mtn last year. But this year, during two separate week-long trips out west - NO powder. Just bad luck I guess.

My powder turns are still very gradual - i.e. not too far off the fall line. So my question is : How the heck to you make those more radical swing turns in powder so you can really be in control on the steeper slopes?

Also, I had been using my Burnin' Luvs - I know, not ideal - but I just bought a pair of Auras and I'm hoping they are really going to help me improve in the powder! :smile:

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This thread poses a good question and some really good responses.

I'll add this.........
Every place you ski will have different demands and require a different level of respect.

As skill improves for the different demands, the demand to fun ratio drastically improves.

Is it easier to ski out West? The bumps are easier because they're softer. The snow tends to be less icy, which is easier, but you are also more likely to run into dangers out West that you may not find in the midwest or east, such as wandering into a steep unpredictable terrain, avalanche dangers, Tree Wells and the possibility of getting cliffed out.

There is a balance of skill, fun and risk in every environment.
Enjoy it all!
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
Oooh, this is a great thread.

Just getting used to the slo-mo aspects of riding the 'wave' of snow and not rushing it takes time......patience.

Yeah, the best powder skiing advice I got this season (from altagirl's DH, actually) was to BE PATIENT. I think "slo-mo" is a great way to describe it; when you're used to skiing on hardpack it can feel really unnatural to wait as much as you need to to ski powder well. I feel like I'm finally starting to get there, and pretty much every time things start to get out of hand it's because I'm trying to force my skis around rather than waiting for them to come around on their own.
 

RachelV

Administrator
Staff member
My problem is that I'm not controlling my speed or my turns the way I want to yet. In powder, the terrain is still dictating to me rather than the other way around, if you know what I mean. I don't have anyone to ski powder with, so I'm always going off looking for "baby powder" (nothing too terribly steep or deep) to practice in. I agree that The Ballroom at Alta is one of these, plus China Bowl at Vail, where we beginner powder skiers can dabble in the deep stuff then escape to the groomed if necessary. ;)

...

My powder turns are still very gradual - i.e. not too far off the fall line. So my question is : How the heck to you make those more radical swing turns in powder so you can really be in control on the steeper slopes?.

This is pretty much where I'm at, too. I definitely "get" how to ski powder, but when the terrain gets too steep I don't really have the confidence to stay in the fall line because I get going too fast and don't really understand how to slow myself down. I always end up trying to bust out an east coast-style turn to bleed off some speed, and nothing good ever comes of that. :smile:

Also, I think Alta's Backside is another *awesome* beginner's powder area.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
This is pretty much where I'm at, too. I definitely "get" how to ski powder, but when the terrain gets too steep I don't really have the confidence to stay in the fall line because I get going too fast and don't really understand how to slow myself down. I always end up trying to bust out an east coast-style turn to bleed off some speed, and nothing good ever comes of that. :smile:
If you were to read the threads about ESA BigSky on Epic, you'd probably see a common learning experience in all groups, but at a different pace.
All of us were working on confidence in the fall line with the powder conditions.

Robin's (expert) group and Squatty's(Upper advanced) group covered the same terrain, with the same ultimate goal, but at different paces.


Be patient in the middle of the turn and let them run down the fall line before pedaling into the next turn.
But always always always move forward with your hands.
 

abc

Banned
If I can (i.e., the snow is good enough), I spend the whole day on variable condition runs and bumps, and avoid groomers like the plague. For me, I equate bumps, pushed around snow, and powder runs to trail running. I always preferred trail running to just running on the road, because every step is different, and there is mental and physical challenge (avoiding rocks, jumping over roots, adjusting your stride to avoid destroying your knees on steep downhills) in every step. Off-piste skiing (and bump skiing) is much the same for me. I learn something new or cement a skill with every single turn, rather than just chilling with the same or similar turns over and over again. Does that make any sense?
Best said!:thumbsup:

First, I agree that powder can mean a lot of things. Fluffy and deep on top of soft snow is the most fun. . . and the most rare. Moderate depth powder on top of *mystery meat* or alternating with stretches of wind compacted snow can be fun. . . but also frustrating. And the light, cold stuff is a WHOLE different beast from the deep, wet stuff (Sierra cement in CA), and all take different levels of skill, different techniques, and a different mind set.
There ARE ways for easterners to learn to ski SOME of those forms of "powder", for example, the heavy stuff. Just go in spring and ski till late in the day, the snow turns slushy. If one can ski slush well, one can ski the heavy powder the same way.
 

SnowHot

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Best said!:thumbsup:

First, I agree that powder can mean a lot of things. Fluffy and deep on top of soft snow is the most fun. . . and the most rare. Moderate depth powder on top of *mystery meat* or alternating with stretches of wind compacted snow can be fun. . . but also frustrating. And the light, cold stuff is a WHOLE different beast from the deep, wet stuff (Sierra cement in CA), and all take different levels of skill, different techniques, and a different mind set.
There ARE ways for easterners to learn to ski SOME of those forms of "powder", for example, the heavy stuff. Just go in spring and ski till late in the day, the snow turns slushy. If one can ski slush well, one can ski the heavy powder the same way.
Spring slush and heavy powder aren't THAT close in consistency. I may be doing it all wrong, but I ski those two types of snow quite differently.
 

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