Copilot aids for very young kids

[marzNC]

The Copilot Ski Trainer looks very neat! Not something I need any more (DD is 11) but certainly would consider if I had a 3yo learning to ski. Check out the video. Can also be used to tow.

https://gosnowcraft.com/

About $40 and available on Amazon.

This company also has a harness that's helpful for loading/unloading on the chairlift. Looks under Products.

 

[contesstant]

I am intrigued by this for my almost 5YO daughter who has gross motor delay combined with a generally VERY cautious attitude. Last year, skiing was not fun for her. She is game to try again this year as she is quite tall and MUCH stronger, but putting her in lessons daily is just too expensive. I'd love to find something that we could use on her non-lesson days or 1/2 days, which would be easy for us AND her. I like that it doesn't pull from the waist, which seems would encourage back-seating. Would love to get an instructor's take on this and hear if anybody has used one! Might buy one before our Mammoth trip in two weeks :D

 

[BackCountryGirl]

Would love to get an instructor's take on this ... D

I'll bite. I am usually against all forms of tethers, straps and harnesses. Get short skis, well-fitting boots (i.e., not a pair to grow into and use for 2 seasons), limit the terrain to flats, and get a kid to learn to control speed by turning to a stop. It's amazing how easy it is for kids who can't "hold" a wedge immediately to make a hockey stop, even at 3. I supervise in a seasonal program for 3 - 5 year olds. Every single 3 year old last year was lift riding and skiing lift-served green terrain after about 5 weekends. The same will be the case this year. Some made it off the carpet terrain after only 3 weekends.

Above all, be patient. All these aids are designed to move kids too quickly onto lift served terrain. That does nobody any good. Yeah, if I put them on edgie wediges or harnesses, they'd ride a lift quickly. But, I rather have them learn to twist their feet and that may mean spending several hours on flat terrain.

Edgie wedgies may make it easy to hold a breaking wedge, but that's not a great thing and they make it hard to "skate" or propel on flats, or get up. All of that stuff is important; sometimes, all it takes is building the right muscles and muscle memory by repeatedly having to get up from the ground. Harnesses do pull weight back and enable parents to take kids on terrain they shouldn't be on in the first place. Parents shouldn't "tow" their kids, either. Let them learn how to propel on flats.

I do agree that for some children with limited mobility and with some developmental difficulties, aids are important. But, it's one thing for adaptive instructors to use aids -- they tend to be trained on how to do it. It's another for parents to use them.

 

[contesstant]

I'll bite. I am usually against all forms of tethers, straps and harnesses. Get short skis, well-fitting boots (i.e., not a pair to grow into and use for 2 seasons), limit the terrain to flats, and get a kid to learn to control speed by turning to a stop. It's amazing how easy it is for kids who can't "hold" a wedge immediately to make a hockey stop, even at 3. I supervise in a seasonal program for 3 - 5 year olds. Every single 3 year old last year was lift riding and skiing lift-served green terrain after about 5 weekends. The same will be the case this year. Some made it off the carpet terrain after only 3 weekends.

Above all, be patient. All these aids are designed to move kids too quickly onto lift served terrain. That does nobody any good. Yeah, if I put them on edgie wediges or harnesses, they'd ride a lift quickly. But, I rather have them learn to twist their feet and that may mean spending several hours on flat terrain.

Edgie wedgies may make it easy to hold a breaking wedge, but that's not a great thing and they make it hard to "skate" or propel on flats, or get up. All of that stuff is important; sometimes, all it takes is building the right muscles and muscle memory by repeatedly having to get up from the ground. Harnesses do pull weight back and enable parents to take kids on terrain they shouldn't be on in the first place. Parents shouldn't "tow" their kids, either. Let them learn how to propel on flats.

I do agree that for some children with limited mobility and with some developmental difficulties, aids are important. But, it's one thing for adaptive instructors to use aids -- they tend to be trained on how to do it. It's another for parents to use them.

Thank you SO much for the feedback! Wish you taught at Mammoth. I think we'll plan on putting her in childcare for most days and put her in ONE 1/2 day lesson. If she wants more, we'll add more lessons and less child care.

 

[Jilly]

I have to agree with backcountrygirl. And all you're doing is training yourself!

And this is nothing really new! Been around for at least 30 years in one form or another.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

I have to agree with backcountrygirl. And all you're doing is training yourself!

+2.

All that stuff was N/A way back, decades ago, when I went through this. Guess I did us both a favor? Did require mega-patience at age 3, though. 4 was fine > gone.

(warning: song. "Ah. I remember it well.")

 

[marzNC]

I was not in any way suggesting this as the only way to get a little one going on skis. Someone else mentioned it in another thread and I thought it could be useful.

Note that in the southeast, limiting a kid to areas not served by a chairlift means they would have an area perhaps 30 yards long to ski on, if that. Also there are many parents who are barely on southeast blues themselves who want to get little kids on skis. Often the entire family skis once a year on rental equipment. Obviously, it would be best if the kids were in full-day ski school but those spots fill up quickly.

 

[gardenmary]

+2.

All that stuff was N/A way back, decades ago, when I went through this. Guess I did us both a favor? Did require mega-patience at age 3, though. 4 was fine > gone.

(warning: song. "Ah. I remember it well.")

I know what movie that song is from! I have the deluxe DVD and have been trying to get a seat by the TV for 2 years to watch it. That was one of my dad's favorite movies. Maurice Chevalier and Hermione Gingold are delightful in that number.

Back to topic: My instructor in Utah helped introduce a new children's ski aid where you attach a clip-on loop to the back of the skis, then help them by steering with poles from behind. Here's the link:

https://www.hookease.com/

If you go to Snowbasin's Facebook page and go back to mid-November, the system is explained at a press conference with my instructor, Picabo Street, and the mayor of Ogden. Hope this helps! It looked really interesting.

 

[MaineSkiLady]

Hope you get to watch the delightful film soon! Re: this

...with my instructor, Picabo Street...

For real???

 

[gardenmary]

Hope you get to watch the delightful film soon! Re: this

For real???

OMG no, there were three people there: Picabo Street; the mayor of Ogden; and my instructor, Stew Marsh, who is head of the snowsports school at Snowbasin and on the advisory board for Hookease.

I wanted SO BAD to ask him all about her when we were up there last month but I thought it would be tacky. Stew is an awesome instructor, and runs a great school. We've been skiing together for many years, first XC and now alpine, and we laugh about how incredibly terrified I was when I first started XC. Now I'm angling to do the women's Olympic downhill run at Snowbasin, though it may not be this year; we had to cancel our February trip. I keep hoping to organize a girls trip the week after Easter.

 

[contesstant]

OMG no, there were three people there: Picabo Street; the mayor of Ogden; and my instructor, Stew Marsh, who is head of the snowsports school at Snowbasin and on the advisory board for Hookease.

I wanted SO BAD to ask him all about her when we were up there last month but I thought it would be tacky. Stew is an awesome instructor, and runs a great school. We've been skiing together for many years, first XC and now alpine, and we laugh about how incredibly terrified I was when I first started XC. Now I'm angling to do the women's Olympic downhill run at Snowbasin, though it may not be this year; we had to cancel our February trip. I keep hoping to organize a girls trip the week after Easter.

Intriguing piece of equipment! I still have this nagging feeling my peewee would feel more comfortable knowing we had some sort of control over her out there. Seems you could even go out on a flat spot with that on, in snow boots, and just push her along to help her learn how to just balance while moving. Interesting...

 

[gardenmary]

It does look really interesting - I think it all but eliminates the "back seat" effect that the harnesses can have. I think they actually mentioned your flat-spot idea too. I would see it as something that's used until the child is able to ski and stop easily without help. I didn't get a chance to view any of the videos on the Hookease site but it really seems like a great idea.

 

[skimamma]

In defense of the ski harness.....

I am not an instructor. However, I am a mom with 3 biological children, and 2 step children (who I exposed to skiing....they were little when we were married.) All 5 love snow sports.

We purchased a harness when one of my step daughters was 6. Did not work well. She was too old. We quickly decided it was a bad idea.

We pulled it out again when we were teaching (in combination with sending kids to lessons) the younger three to ski. They were 2, 6, & 6. We sent the 6 year olds off to lessons and used the harness with the 2 year old who was too young for lessons. It worked great for us. The one who used the harness has consistently been the least likely of the three to be in the back seat. We didn't know what to have her do with her hands, so we had her put them on her knees. We also mostly used it as back up to not allow her to get into a dangerous situation, often the harness was not taunt. At first, someone would ski in front of her so she had someone to follow. Later, she determined her own line. She was off of it by the time she was 3. She was pulling out of a snow plow at 3 1/2 (please do not tell me this is not possible, because I have already heard this when and I had non local ski instructors apologize because they thought I was the crazy lady over estimating her child.) My point is, with very young children, you can teach them to have fun with the family while on skis. And, it allowed us to be out skiing as a family with all three kids. With the other two, we put them in one group lesson. Then a 1 hour private lesson every couple of weeks when they needed something new to work on. We had season's passes and skied every weekend.

Age had everything to do with the success of the harness in our situation. Personally, I would not do it with a child over 3 or 4.

All three of mine are alpine racers now. The youngest (8 yrs. old) is rarely in the backseat and knows how to self correct in the course when she is (according to her coach). She is an excellent racer. One of the twins is constantly standing up like a tree. He never used the harness. Obviously, the harness didn't teach her to stay out of the back seat; however, it did not hurt her either. (I should mention even at 3 she did not have a problem with weight distribution while skiing, according to instructors.)

Most importantly---HAVE FUN WITH THEM!!!!! The little ones are so fun to ski with. I miss skiing with the tiny kids!

 

[gardenmary]

skimamma - very intriguing story. My DS learned in lessons at the age of 11, so I can't comment on teaching technique, but I think the one thing that made a difference with your youngest was having her put her hands on her knees. Already, they are more in her field of vision, and forward, than if she were holding them out to her sides.

And I absolutely agree she would be able to move in and out of a snowplow (wedge) at 3-1/2. Obviously, some kids are more large-motor-skill able at an early age, but if they're inclined, it seems that establishing muscle memory that early would have a profound effect. It's like playing piano - a concert pianist once told me, when I asked him about taking lessons for the first time in my 40s, that I could certainly learn and achieve competency, but I would likely never play the really difficult repertoire - because one's hands need to learn that action from a very young age to do it well.

And I agree - having fun is all and everything. Why do this otherwise?

 

[marzNC]

Age had everything to do with the success of the harness in our situation. Personally, I would not do it with a child over 3 or 4.

That makes good sense to me. The reason the Co-pilot looked interesting is that it attaches to boots, instead of the body. The one that attaches to skis is interesting too. My sense is that for most kids who like skiing from the first time don't need training aids, especially if they get to do enough ski school with good instructors they like. For little ones who are more tentative . . . or 3yos who like to go FAST . . . having something to help parents keep things under control seems worth considering.

 

[contesstant]

That makes good sense to me. The reason the Co-pilot looked interesting is that it attaches to boots, instead of the body. The one that attaches to skis is interesting too. My sense is that for most kids who like skiing from the first time don't need training aids, especially if they get to do enough ski school with good instructors they like. For little ones who are more tentative . . . or 3yos who like to go FAST . . . having something to help parents keep things under control seems worth considering.

And mine is the tentative type...the more I think about this, the more I think it would help her overall. She just needs that security knowing we are there for her. I also like that I could push or pull her with them. I'm going to see how she does in her lesson at Mammoth, and go from there. She's really not your "average" kid in the coordination/gross motor dept. Sometimes she just needs a little help with stuff that other kids don't.

 

[skimamma]

She's really not your "average" kid in the coordination/gross motor dept. Sometimes she just needs a little help with stuff that other kids don't.

Neither am I, or my daughter! However, do not underestimate her on skis. She may surprise you. My 12 year old and I have had most of our falls in the parking lot or lodge. We are both much more coordinated on skis!

Have fun teaching her to ski!

 

[ann k]

Contesstant - Here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. I am a parent with two young kids who both learned to ski at a young age but not an instructor. I found most helpful skiing on the bunny hill backwards a short distance and having my daughter ski to me. When she was more apprehensive I skied only a very short distance away from her and my husband was right beside her/behind her for some encouragement/support. I would hold out my hands and she would "punch them" as she got to me. This kept her arms in the right position and made it fun for her. As she got better and gained confidence I would ski further away from her (still me backwards) and do turns this way too. She learned to easily turn both directions while just following and coming to me. Since you will always be close by it might be enough for her to feel "safe" without using any aides. I never found the need to use any aides using this method. Good luck and let us know how it goes for you. Sometimes you have to try lots of different things to find out what works best for your kid.

 

[marzNC]

The comment about skiing backwards reminded me . . . one reason I bought skis that I knew were on the short side for me was to make it easier to ski backwards and turn in general on bunny slopes. When my daughter started skiing enough that it was worth buying something instead of renting, I was pretty much an intermediate skier. Plus, shorter skis were less to carry since I was carrying her skis too for a few years.

 

[contesstant]

Thanks for the feedback, ladies! I do like the idea of teaming up with my husband although I'm not sure how well I'll ski backwards! ;) Good skill building for me, I suppose. We'll see how she does in the lesson and go from there. She is such a tiny thing, last year we put her in two lessons (just shy of age 4) and she liked it for about an hour, then hated it. It was just SO hard for her. She could barely walk in the boots. I had her put the boots on and walk around last week, and she is quite strong in them this year. So here's hoping...if this kid doesn't want to ski or ride horses with me, I just don't know what I'll do! She's terrified of even sitting on my horse. **sigh** I'll never pressure her, but I do hope to share these wonderful activities with her one day! She's a feisty little thing, so I think if she decides she WANTS to, she'll find a way!