Captain Obvious?

[Jenny]

This really may be one of those "Duh?!" Questions but here goes:

DH was demoing today, and took out the Blizzard XPower 810, which our friend demoed a couple of weeks ago. I took a couple of runs on them, and felt that I had to ski differently on them than I do on my Nordica Wild Belle's. I haven't done much reading up on them (this was all kind of spur of the moment) but am I right in that I had to adjust some things? I mean, how do you divas who are constantly switching skis do it?!

And while I'm asking this kind of question, here's another one. It has to do with finishing turns (again) and the shape of turns. I finally decided after having my lesson with volklgirl and getting her comments that maybe I've been taking this too literally. When someone says to me to make a C shaped turn, I expect then to look back and see a C in the snow, and I've had a hard time figuring out how people manage to finish their turns and yet still go flying smoothly down the mountain. I don't even exactly know how to phrase the question but I think I am finishing the turns, yet I don't end up looking up the hill each time before I start the next one. However, I DO feel the swoopy feeling like I've finished the bottom of the C.

At any rate, I'm having fun and that's what counts.

 

[bounceswoosh]

am I right in that I had to adjust some things?

Yes, probably. The most obvious technique change is with wider skis - wider skis require more effort to tip/carve to the same degree, and take a smidge longer to get there. But all differences in shape and construction have some impact on the best way to drive the ski.

I often have to dial in my skis when I haven't been on them for a while. When I first got the Scott The Ski, it felt really awkward and I seemed to be unable to control it. Fast forward to this season, and it's quite possibly my favorite all-around ski. I brought out my fat skis (125 underfoot) yesterday, and I struggled to put them on edge on the first run. By the end of the day, tipping came easy. (In between, they were fantastic for heavy wind-affected snow.) When I've been skiing several skis regularly, rotating among them doesn't bother me. This is similar perhaps to my cross country and downhill mountain bikes - when I first got my downhill bike, I struggled. Now I can switch between the two and my body just "knows" how to work them properly.

When someone says to me to make a C shaped turn, I expect then to look back and see a C in the snow, and I've had a hard time figuring out how people manage to finish their turns and yet still go flying smoothly down the mountain. I don't even exactly know how to phrase the question but I think I am finishing the turns, yet I don't end up looking up the hill each time before I start the next one.

I'm not an instructor, but you're correct that not all finished turns actually go up the hill. I suspect a better way to think of it might be - when you're carving, you should treat the beginning, middle, and end parts of the turn as though you were going to complete a C arc. If you "plan" for an abbreviated turn, you may end up skidding more than you want. But it sounds like @volklgirl might be the best person to answer this question, and also I could be completely wrong.

 

[sibhusky]

If I spend a long string of days on the same ski, it takes me a number of runs to get re-adjusted to the "new" ski. If I'm switching regularly, the change doesn't seem to be as big a deal.

 

[Jilly]

I've got to agree with the others. 3 of my skis are very similar...the attraxion 8 are soft, but short turns, the attraxion 12's are very similar to my Hero's. I'm using the 12's for teaching, the 8's will be rock skis and the Hero's are my go to. But I do have the 88's. They haven't been out yet, but might be soon. Going from 68 to 88 width is going to take a few runs. Also length and stiffness will play in.

When I do demo's for the shop, I take the ski to a blue run (Beauchemin at Tremblant) and work with it. How does it turn, how stiff, just get comfortable. Then I take it where it needs to be. Steep or easier...whatever.

As for turns, I'd have to see you. But connected turns generally take on a S shape. If you've having fun isn't that what it's all about!!

 

[marzNC]

When I am at a free demo day, I usually take at least 2 runs. Need the first to just get oriented. Then I pay a bit more attention on the second. If I like a ski, then may do a third run if there is time. One reason I take out something high on the "maybe buy" list first is to allow for the possibility of getting it again later in the day.

 

[lisamamot]

The X-Power 810 is a stiff men's ski; I demoed it in the 167 and loved its characteristics as a speedy ice biter; it is what led me to get my Viva 810 167. I expect it would ski quite differently than what you are used to - reviewers have called it the King of Carve, and a pocket rocket.

In general, I ski my two skis quite differently mostly because I trust them differently. When I am on the Elysian, I carve more slowly and carefully when it is hard/icy, and pick my turns more; I can really let it go on the Viva in those conditions. When I am skiing soft piled up snow I have no worries on the Elysian, but navigate that more carefully on the Viva. I think it does take a run or two to learn how a ski behaves and what it will allow - such as will it allow you to make mistakes, or will it hold you accountable

I haven't swapped around a lot, but during my couple of demo days this year I learned a lot about different skis, what I like, and certainly what I don't!

 

[volklgirl]

I, too, ski differently on different skis. Some require more forward pressure to get the tips to engage (especially those with tip rocker), others require more finesse in the tails to keep them from hanging up, still others need differing amounts of tipping to keep them carving (or not). As others said, the more often I switch skis, the less time it takes to figure each one out.

As to finishing your turns, using the C shape as a visual is a great place to start. Once you have the hang of finishing those turns until you are going "comfortably slow", and your confidence level and speed increases, the turns should start being more connected together, looking much more like a sine wave instead. The amount of "finishing" of turns in a run depends on the desired speeds, the terrain, the snow conditions, etc. To go slower, make a pair of more C-shaped turns. To go faster, make an S shaped set of turns. Does that make sense?

 

[Jenny]

Well, I was definitely more aware of the tails on the Blizzards - made me wonder if I've ever noticed what was behind my feet before. And it was the first time I recall really, really noticing that I had to change what I'd been doing from one pair of skis to the next, even when I was demoing several different kinds. But then I may have just been paying special attention to them, as DH and my friend both mentioned the tails and how they held.

As for the turns, I think I can stop obsessing about that now. Pretty sure I'm finishing them. Before that it was whether I was using my edges or not. Now I'll be on tom something else - actually, I already am. It's learning how to go slowly and in absolute control on the steeper slopes, which means still making sure I'm finishing things, but now I think it may be a matter of more practice doing what I'm already doing.

Thanks.

 

[bounceswoosh]

As for the turns, I think I can stop obsessing about that now. Pretty sure I'm finishing them. Before that it was whether I was using my edges or not. Now I'll be on tom something else - actually, I already am.

That's a good thing =) I'm also always working on something. Don't be surprised if in a few years you're back to the same thing, just in a more refined way - am I using my edges well? Is my turn shape as good as it could be? etc etc.

 

[climbingbetty]

Regarding the "C" shaped curve... my understanding and what I've learned from instructing this season, is that it is really common for folks, say, intermediate level and above (roughly) to "rush" their turns and actually end up skidding through them (Z shaped turns) instead of arcing through the whole turn on the edge/sidecut of the ski. Since the end of a turn is the really the top of the next one, coaching someone to "finish their turns" is another way of getting them to have patience in initiating the next turn. It involves at minimum, getting on to flat skis and at best, starting to engage the downhill edges before you even start to change directions. This can be very scary initially as it can give a split second feeling of falling downhill that our brains tend to react to with moving our weight to the backseat, particularly in the steeps. Anyway, my admittedly limited experience is that coaching someone to 'finish their turns' starts to get them in that flat ski, wound-up position that best lets them initiate the next turn. As you you actually ski down the hill however, your ski tracks are more of an S shape then a C.

 

[Jilly]

Yes and to control speed.

 

[altagirl]

I would say that the "c" shape descriptor can be valid, but it depends on the font you are visualizing. The one I see on my screen using tapatalk is certainly not a functional turn shape (unless you are skiing in circles). Candara font works.... ;)

 

[SkiBam]

I would say that the "c" shape descriptor can be valid, but it depends on the font you are visualizing. The one I see on my screen using tapatalk is certainly not a functional turn shape (unless you are skiing in circles). Candara font works.... ;)

Ha! Never thought we'd have to think about fonts while skiing! But you're right - a nice plain capital C (in Helvetica or something like that)....

 

[Jenny]

See, I was picturing an extremely round C. So then I was having problems figuring out how to make sure I was finishing it up so it looked like a nicely rounded C and yet still be able to start the next turn at the right spot. Not sure when it dawned on me that I just might be taking things a bit to the literal extreme - something I can totally do on a regular basis. Overanalyze much?

I think I've now skied long enough that I'm circling back around like Bounceswoosh said, and trying to add the refinements. My next project is skiing slower and in total control on steeper slopes, which in my mind means making sure I'm finishing my turns when they're bigger, so that I can now work on making them smaller, yet still finished. Since we're going to Taos in a couple of weeks I wanted to make sure I had a handle on all of this, because I should get plenty of practice there.

 

[Fluffy Kitty]

My next project is skiing slower and in total control on steeper slopes, which in my mind means making sure I'm finishing my turns when they're bigger, so that I can now work on making them smaller, yet still finished.

I think where I get confused is that there seem to be two different usages of the term "finish the turn": 1) stay in your turn until you've hit the proper angle against the fall line, to control your speed, and don't be too eager to get into the next turn, vs. 2) release the pressure/edge off the skis as the last step in the turn, which transitions you readily into the next turn. Both of these things are important, and both combined allow one to stay in control, I think?

Occasionally, I overfocus on 1), which makes 2) difficult, and I end up with a Times Roman C (So, I guess, now we have to be font-specific when referring to letter shapes!), which rhymes with P, which stands for Panic!

 

[SkiBam]

Yes, I agree that focusing on 1) for too long might make it difficult to achieve 2) when you want. Maybe the idea of a perfect C is a bit misleading - it's seldom that I "finish" my turn to the extent that I actually turn back up the mountain. But it's the "intent" of doing that that enables me to slow down as much as I want. But if you want nice linked turns, the end of one turn becomes the start of the next turn.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

I teach the C shaped turn, but sometimes find the concept of a clock face more useful. If I need to maintain a great deal of speed on a shallow slope I might start my new turn at 430 or 5 o'clock. If it is crazy steep and I need to ski slowly I might not start my new turn until my skis have followed the path along my imaginary on snow clock face all the way to 615. I hope this visual and more adaptable interpretation of C shaped turns helps.

 

[Serafina]

Changing skis is the same as driving different cars. You have to spend a moment repositioning the seat and the windows, and reminding yourself where the controls are and how it steers, and then you're off.

It's only a "C" compared to an "S" (which is really more like a snake track) or a "Z" (which is what you get when you're whipping your tails around to brake during the turn. If you take the C turn to an extreme, you finish your turns by heading back uphill, and you would see something that looks more like a "C" in the snow, but I don't think you'd ordinarily do that unless you were on a really difficult run and felt the need to very tightly control your speed and keep it low, or you were in the process of learning the difference between the C, S, and Z-shaped turns.

 

[bounceswoosh]

Changing skis is the same as driving different cars. You have to spend a moment repositioning the seat and the windows, and reminding yourself where the controls are and how it steers, and then you're off.

Changing from my Subaru to DH's BMW usually involves some near-stallouts and some feverish reminders that his car has a 6th gear where my car's Reverse is. Exciting! The brakes are also way more grabby and it's super easy to go too fast ... Some skis are differenter than others.

 

[contesstant]

Good analogies, ladies! Heck, I had a tiny little boot change today that had a pretty dramatic change in how my right ski turned, and it took me quite awhile to quit oversteering that ski!