Can't figure out the darn pole plant!

[BMR]

Seems like it should be intuitive: reach, plant, turn around it, shouldn't it? Not for me! Every time I try, something just doesn't click, I forget what my feet are doing, I get all tangled up in thinking about my poles, it breaks my rhythm, and I just give up the poles and ski the rest of the run not planting. I start out every run thinking, on this one I am going to practice the pole plant, and it just never seems to work for me.
I am not in the back seat, my body is facing forward, I am much better now at the foot-to-foot pressure, and I am getting better at 3D variable conditions and steeper black diamond New England slopes, though perhaps not as pretty as the blue runs (although I haven't seen myself on video in a while, so maybe I am wrong about all that). And yet, the pole plant escapes me. Any tips or trick to get this to work?

 

[marzNC]

Seems like it should be intuitive: reach, plant, turn around it, shouldn't it?

Nope, not intuitive at all. When I started skiing more out west, I realized in the first lesson that I was actually trying to use the wrong pole. I learned as a teen but only had two seasons, so with a hiatus of a few decades really had no idea what I was supposed to do with poles. Fifteen years later, I'm still working on how to move my poles in correct rhythm and without using too much effort. That's after multiple lessons at an advanced level in recent years.

There is a reason that when kids start in ski school, they don't use poles. You don't really need them on greens, or easy blues, when learning how to let the the skis do the work instead of your body.

Maybe @nopoleskier will stop by to explain why she didn't even bother with poles on advanced terrain for a while.

 

[BMR]

What's interesting is that I feel naked without them, so I suppose I do use them for something. Just not correctly maybe. Occasionally I'll plant a good pole to initiate a steep turn, but never been able to maintain a rhythmical plant.

 

[Jilly]

Really need a video to see what's happening.

 

[Christy]

I don't have any tips but don't feel like it should be intuitive--I think we worked on pole planting in every intermediate clinic I've ever done, and I think a lot of us still have room to improve.

 

[liquidfeet]

Seems like it should be intuitive:
reach,
plant,
turn around it,
shouldn't it? ....Any tips or trick to get this to work?

Well, let's change that formula a bit.

--Ski with hands out in front as if you are carrying a cafeteria tray. Do not reach. The movement is not in the hands. This feels weird since there is no cafeteria tray and no obvious reason to hold hands out there. Just do it.
--Slowly flick outside pole's tip forward alongside your ski as the turn progresses, keeping its tip hovering in the air. It's the pole bottom, way down there, its tip, that does the swinging, not your hand or arm. The pole tip swings, not the arm. No reaching with the arm/hand allowed. This feels odd since we swing our arms when walking and running. Swing the pole instead. Keep the hands quiet.
--Drop that tip down to the snow for a tap at the end of the old turn. Avoid planting it solidly, just tap. Tap its tip onto the snow near the old outside foot, not forward of it. You swung it forward of that foot prior to tapping it, but at that forward point it was in the air. When it comes back and touches down, it does its touchdown right near your downhill foot.
--Make the turn as if you had not done the pole touch. You don't really turn around the pole. You just turn, as if not doing anything with the pole.
--Keep the hand where it was after the pole tap. Do not drop it back down by your side. It will really really want to drop. Dropping will feel right, because it's like swinging your arms while walking and running. Don't let it. Instead, if you keep the hand where it would be carrying that cafeteria tray, it should actually feel like you are projecting that planting hand forward as the new turn is starting. This sensation tells you that you are succeeding in not letting the pole planting hand drop back.

--So why plant the poles if you are not turning "around" them? ...Why bother if you can make turns without any pole plants? Why bother if they are so hard to do without swinging the hands/arms? Because the pole swings establish your rhythm. It's a timing thing, a tempo thing. The pole swings work just like arm swings do when running. If you want to run faster, swing arms faster. If you want to make turns faster, swing poles faster.
--Flick the wrists to swing the pole tips fore-aft. It's a small range-of-motion, just in the wrist. How much rigidity do you want in those arms? No rigidity, keep them relaxed. They will move a wee bit.

 

[TNtoTaos]

What she said -- that's exactly how I was taught (and taught, and taught...LOL)!

 

[nopoleskier]

Hi, Nopoleskier here. Yes, to everything you said!
and Yes, When shaped skis came out I threw away my poles and skied no poles for about 20yrs. Then I got back into teaching and started them using them again, I still teach no poles and take away every students poles. it definitely will amplify bad habits.

Skiing No poles I think requires better balance, better skiing skills. With poles most skiers don't finish their turns, they get lazy and drop their arm and drag their poles and (then their weight is in the wrong place) Poles can interrupt a turn more than benefit if not using them correctly. Yes, Poles are security sticks/out riggers. They are useful in bumps and trees.

Yes like @liquidfeet said, they are supposed to 'initiate' your turn, but often speed makes it so you don't need to pole plant. it is a slight touch for just casual skiing. it is supposed to help with your rhythm, when learning though I think (like how you feel) they complicate things.

Try skiing no poles and make imaginary pole plants, so much of skiing is muscle memory- I start skiers learning to use poles by having them hold 1 pole horizontal down the fall line- so they can get the feel of "holding the tray" actually it gets skiers to feel body separation- the legs moving below, the upper body still. Swinging poles too much can result in rotation of the upper body, not a good habit nor is dropping an arm and having your hand behind you. Best part of skiing the only rules are safety and fun, ski how you want and if you don't like poles, you don't have to use them. :-)

 

[Getting Ready]

My son has been working on timing with his poles. It helps him to think of the pole plant as the period at the end of a sentence/turn.

 

[BMR]

@liquidfeet and @nopoleskier, thank you so much for the thoughtful responses, that all makes a ton of sense. I will play around with this some more but overall will not view it as a must do for now.

 

[snoWYmonkey]

My son has been working on timing with his poles. It helps him to think of the pole plant as the period at the end of a sentence/turn.

I love this! Hopefully a series of well connected sentences without blank space indicating a new paragraph until the legs need a rest.

 

[lisamamot]

As I was a horseback rider for so many years, my instinct to ski with shoulders back and elbows in has been a hard one to break. A few years ago I met and skied socially for a couple days with a group that included instructors and race coaches - I had an absolute blast. I asked one of the instructors for a couple technique tips and he pegged my background right away! I have worked to round my shoulders and get elbows out ever since.

Elbows in wreaks havoc with pole plants in bumps, but at least I understand why I have been known to ski on top of my pole basket

 

[Getting Ready]

As I was a horseback rider for so many years, my instinct to ski with shoulders back and elbows in has been a hard one to break. A few years ago I met and skied socially for a couple days with a group that included instructors and race coaches - I had an absolute blast. I asked one of the instructors for a couple technique tips and he pegged my background right away! I have worked to round my shoulders and get elbows out ever since.

Elbows in wreaks havoc with pole plants in bumps, but at least I understand why I have been known to ski on top of my pole basket

Hah! I never put this together but this is exactly my problem for the same reason!

 

[BMR]

My son has been working on timing with his poles. It helps him to think of the pole plant as the period at the end of a sentence/turn.

I tried this today, and OMG! I have been using the wrong pole all this time . No wonder it didn't work. After I started chanting to myself "turn, period, turn, period", it totally clicked! Previously when I tried to initiate the turns with a pole plant, I somehow got confused. But putting a period at the end of a sentence/turn totally worked. This, in combination with flicking the wrist vs reaching, made all the difference. I am not perfect and definitely still need lots of practice, but it was so fun feeling the rhythm and my poles working like a metronome. I am assuming it is ok for the metronome to be extremely variable? It was busy and bumpy, so my turn shape was variable as a result.

 

[liquidfeet]

....it was so fun feeling the rhythm and my poles working like a metronome. I am assuming it is ok for the metronome to be extremely variable? It was busy and bumpy, so my turn shape was variable as a result.

Absolutely OK!

 

[Jilly]

You can even make 2 periods if needed!!

 

[liquidfeet]

^^ That's a great drill. It helps you complete your turns. It also helps that pole plant feel decisive. Or pole touch. Or pole tap.

 

[VTsnowflower]

Another way to practice pole plants is to chant (internally!) "tall, touch, turn". Tall for the body extension into the turn, touch for the pole touch, and then turn. (When just learning, there may be a tendency to touch after the turn, like an after thought.)

 

[Jilly]

Tall is not something that should happen. Flat would be better. You need to flatten the skis to steer them into the turn. Tall or rising up is old school.

 

[liquidfeet]

Some people promote the pole touch at the end of the old turn, to trigger the release.
Others want it as skis begin to tip onto new edges, which is after the release, and actually in the beginning of the new turn.

Since most problems with pole plant timing come from the plant or tap being late, I'm in the first camp.