Boots/injury/ frustration help

[beane]

Ok so context is that last Feb I had ACL reconstruction. Was aiming for late Dec return to ski when I broke my wrist and had surgery. Started back skiing on Sunday (with wrist brace on); did a few easy runs and the knee felt fine. Used my Elan wildcat 86cx (164). Then two days later went out again, same set up, and felt annoyed/pain in calves, sort of thought maybe I’d forgotten how tight ski boots feel? I also had a bit more movement in my foot (could curl toes, left heel a smidge), so I thought maybe boots are packed out? I have maybe 45-50 days on them, I think. It just felt like I had to really crank on the top two buckles to feel secure but I dunno maybe that wasn’t actually needed??

Anyway, today I went to the bootfitter where I bought them and am sold zipfits. The guy really didn’t look at my old liners much or suggest anything else. Though he did sell me/install a booster strap. He thinks they’re the right boots for my feet.

It’s really hard to put them in the boots bc my wrist is still recovering. Anywho, I go out skiing today and get a few runs in (on my very old camberless Sheeva 10s— my husband thought maybe we no camber/shorter effective edge would feel easier) and my knee starts aching. Which is disappointing but not surprising.

…but the boots really didn’t feel any different or better. I then tried one of each on at home and really they feel almost identical. I can return the Zipfits for a refund.

do I need to just get used to boots again? Should I give them another try without the new liners? This is all so aggravating because I really don’t know where I’d be/what I *should* be feeling because it’s such early days. Feeling annoyed with my body/injuries/impatience at recovery and also at my tendency to jump to solutions and not wait. Argh. Any input welcome!

 

[Jilly]

Maybe rent a pair of narrower skis. It is a proven fact that wider skis are not friendly to knees on groomers. Try something in the 75mm range.

 

[beane]

Maybe rent a pair of narrower skis. It is a proven fact that wider skis are not friendly to knees on groomers. Try something in the 75mm range.

Yes I'll definitely stick with narrower skis. I just wish I knew what to do about the dang boots

 

[TNtoTaos]

Yes I'll definitely stick with narrower skis. I just wish I knew what to do about the dang boots

I know what you mean about the boots not feeling right, esp after not skiing or awhile. When I got my new Intuition liners in Dec I had to learn how to buckle my boots all over again, but after skiing in them a few times they felt good, and I learned that I don't have to crank them down so hard to feel in control. It's all about the heel fit.

Try buckling your boots up more gradually; eg., start with the heel/ankle buckle (the second from the bottom), then move up to the next 2 buckles, but not tight, maybe just one notch. Then flex your knees forward to flex the boots and get your heel locked in. Then I'd walk around in the boots for awhile, and possibly tighten them just one more notch on each buckle just before you get into your skis. Try a short (bunny hill?) run and see how the boots feel. If they feel OK, leave them alone.

 

[diymom]

I'm not sure if any of this pertains to what you are experiencing with your boots, but I also had ACL reconstruction this past year and just got back on skis a little over 2 weeks ago. Apparently my biomechanics have changed in that leg. My first day out I was wondering if I was just favoring the one leg more or what, but my one ski just kept skidding and I just couldn't find my inside edge. But no. I used to pronate a bit on both sides, now only on one. I visited my bootfitter and had my footbed shimmed, and he also checked my alignment which has also changed a smidge on that side. Boot canting might be next.

Maybe something has changed about your biomechanics too that is resulting in calf pain? Perhaps a visit to the bootfitter for a more thorough analysis of your feet/ legs/ boot combo?

 

[beane]

I know what you mean about the boots not feeling right, esp after not skiing or awhile. When I got my new Intuition liners in Dec I had to learn how to buckle my boots all over again, but after skiing in them a few times they felt good, and I learned that I don't have to crank them down so hard to feel in control. It's all about the heel fit.

Try buckling your boots up more gradually; eg., start with the heel/ankle buckle (the second from the bottom), then move up to the next 2 buckles, but not tight, maybe just one notch. Then flex your knees forward to flex the boots and get your heel locked in. Then I'd walk around in the boots for awhile, and possibly tighten them just one more notch on each buckle just before you get into your skis. Try a short (bunny hill?) run and see how the boots feel. If they feel OK, leave them alone.

were the new liners obviously better right away? the zipfits feel like a real commitment between the price and the putting them on and I'm just wondering if i should be patient with myself and try to make the regular liners work.

 

[beane]

I'm not sure if any of this pertains to what you are experiencing with your boots, but I also had ACL reconstruction this past year and just got back on skis a little over 2 weeks ago. Apparently my biomechanics have changed in that leg. My first day out I was wondering if I was just favoring the one leg more or what, but my one ski just kept skidding and I just couldn't find my inside edge. But no. I used to pronate a bit on both sides, now only on one. I visited my bootfitter and had my footbed shimmed, and he also checked my alignment which has also changed a smidge on that side. Boot canting might be next.

Maybe something has changed about your biomechanics too that is resulting in calf pain? Perhaps a visit to the bootfitter for a more thorough analysis of your feet/ legs/ boot combo?

that's interesting. I don't think that was an issue but I've really only done a few easy runs so might not be able to tell yet.

 

[TNtoTaos]

were the new liners obviously better right away? the zipfits feel like a real commitment between the price and the putting them on and I'm just wondering if i should be patient with myself and try to make the regular liners work.

My liners are Intuitions, not Zipfits, but they felt very stiff and tight at first -- and again, I really had to change the way I had always buckled my boots. These liners have so much more volume, and much less give than the stock SIDA liners that I had before. It took several days of skiing in them, and some tweaks from the bootfitter before they were really comfortable. Even now, after around 20 days of skiing in them, they're comfortable, but I'm much more aware of them then I was my old liners (which just got too packed out after 8-10 yrs).

I agree with @diymom , though -- it's very possible that your biomechanics have changed, as well, or you may be unconsciously tightening up your calves from anxiety (you want to ski, but your lizard-brain is
fearful of another injury). Or you may need a better bootfitter. It bothers me that he didn't look at your old liners before selling you $$ Zipfits! Was this a certified bootitter, or a boot salesman (see the many posts in the forum about the difference, and the experiences folks have had with boot salespeople vs real bootfitters).

 

[HikenSki]

I'm not sure if any of this pertains to what you are experiencing with your boots, but I also had ACL reconstruction this past year and just got back on skis a little over 2 weeks ago. Apparently my biomechanics have changed in that leg. My first day out I was wondering if I was just favoring the one leg more or what, but my one ski just kept skidding and I just couldn't find my inside edge. But no. I used to pronate a bit on both sides, now only on one. I visited my bootfitter and had my footbed shimmed, and he also checked my alignment which has also changed a smidge on that side. Boot canting might be next.

Maybe something has changed about your biomechanics too that is resulting in calf pain? Perhaps a visit to the bootfitter for a more thorough analysis of your feet/ legs/ boot combo?

I ran into the same thing! Tore my ACL in Jan 2022, repaired in Mar 2022 and tried skiing again a year later after extensive rehab. It did not go well. I could not ski and my knee just ached. This past fall I had them take a look at my boots and sure enough, my alignment was off and the boots were torquing my knee when I bent my legs and tried to flex my boots. They also reduced the boot flex by removing one of the bolts (now a much more pleasant 100 flex). I went out for the first time in early last month and it was rough but I no longer had the knee pain issues and I could get my skis flat. I’ve gotten better as I’ve built up confidence. It did help that I bought myself some beginner skis that are narrower 76 waist and softer than my much stiffer and wider skis (82 and 91). Figure I’ll use them a few seasons and then sell them once I’ve found my ski legs again.
So might be worthwhile to get your alignment checked as well as rent softer narrower skis till you find your ski legs again.

 

[beane]

My liners are Intuitions, not Zipfits, but they felt very stiff and tight at first -- and again, I really had to change the way I had always buckled my boots. These liners have so much more volume, and much less give than the stock SIDA liners that I had before. It took several days of skiing in them, and some tweaks from the bootfitter before they were really comfortable. Even now, after around 20 days of skiing in them, they're comfortable, but I'm much more aware of them then I was my old liners (which just got too packed out after 8-10 yrs).

I agree with @diymom , though -- it's very possible that your biomechanics have changed, as well, or you may be unconsciously tightening up your calves from anxiety (you want to ski, but your lizard-brain is
fearful of another injury). Or you may need a better bootfitter. It bothers me that he didn't look at your old liners before selling you $$ Zipfits! Was this a certified bootitter, or a boot salesman (see the many posts in the forum about the difference, and the experiences folks have had with boot salespeople vs real bootfitters).

Yeah, I agree that was weird. He was/is a bootfitter but didn’t seem very motivated to figure out what might be going on. I’ll try to make an appointment somewhere else.

 

[contesstant]

The liners should feel vastly different. Did he heat the ZipFits so they would mold to your feet? Did he explain that they work best if warmed prior to every use? Did he offer to add some padding to key spots in your stock liners before suggesting the ZipFits?

 

[Jilly]

@contesstant and I are thinking alike. My bootfitter added extra padding to my stock Atomic liners years ago. It was to fill in the area around my ankles. Worked great for 4 more years.

A good boot fitter would try something like that first, before upselling you new liners.

 

[beane]

The liners should feel vastly different. Did he heat the ZipFits so they would mold to your feet? Did he explain that they work best if warmed prior to every use? Did he offer to add some padding to key spots in your stock liners before suggesting the ZipFits?

They really did not feel different. Maybe 5-10% more comfy? He did heat them twice, no to warming each time, and no to last Q. I did ask towards the end when I was feeling a bit “sold to”… hey do you ever add something around the base of the ankle? And he said that it would just be foam and not as good, these are the best, etc etc. I actually think the booster straps (which he ironically forgot to charge me for) will make a difference..

 

[contesstant]

They really did not feel different. Maybe 5-10% more comfy? He did heat them twice, no to warming each time, and no to last Q. I did ask towards the end when I was feeling a bit “sold to”… hey do you ever add something around the base of the ankle? And he said that it would just be foam and not as good, these are the best, etc etc. I actually think the booster straps (which he ironically forgot to charge me for) will make a difference..

Yikes. ZipFits, if the correct volume, should feel scads tighter. They’ll give you almost an unsettling amount of control over your skis until you adapt to them. Booster Straps are a great product, too. I’ve skied with them for at least 10 years now.

I’d return the liners and see about talking to a different fitter. Seems you had a salesperson.

 

[mustski]

I’d return the liners and see about talking to a different fitter. Seems you had a salesperson.

This is good advice. If they don't feel better, they are not the solution to your problem.

 

[beane]

OK will try the zipfits again tomorrow, and I made an appt at another place on Saturday to see what they say. Thanks all for the input!

 

[mustski]

Be sure to tell the fitter about the toe curling and the heel movement in the same leg on which you had surgery.

Question: How does the other foot feel?

 

[beane]

Be sure to tell the fitter about the toe curling and the heel movement in the same leg on which you had surgery.

Question: How does the other foot feel?

the same? i don't really feel an asymmetry, just that both feet have more space than I think they should? but I'm not a bootfitter so maybe i'm wrong and a little bit of space is ok. it just seemed like i had to crank the top 2 buckles pretty tightly. the guy did say my boots are about as low volume as you can get.

 

[mustski]

There are huge differences in the shape of different boots even if they have the same volume. I have skied in 98 last boots for the past 10 years and they have all been too big. Eventually, @SnowHot had me size down and put me in a boot with a lot of shape and that made a huge difference for me. Another thing you could try is using a boot fitter to put L pads on your old liners and see if that solves the problem. If you are sliding forward in the boot, you may be curling your toes to try to hold yourself back. I also have to buckle my toe buckles tighter than most people. That helps to keep my foot stable. It does affect circulation so I have to open them to ride the lift for the first hour or so of skiing.

ETA: I am NOT a bootfitter, just sharing my experience.

 

[liquidfeet]

He was/is a bootfitter but didn’t seem very motivated to figure out what might be going on.

both feet have more space than I think they should? i had to crank the top 2 buckles pretty tightly.

I also had a bit more movement in my foot (could curl toes, lift heel a smidge), I had to really crank on the top two buckles to feel secure

Anyway, today I went to the bootfitter where I bought them and am sold zipfits. The guy really didn’t look at my old liners much or suggest anything else. . He thinks they’re the right boots for my feet.

Your boots are showing all the signs that they are too big for your feet. There is too much room above your foot. This is an issue of "volume." Boots come in low volume so because of the air space above your foot you may need a low volume boot. There are also signs that your "bootfitter" is not reliable. Your injuries are clouding the issue causing unnecessary caution about trusting what you're feeling.

Go see another bootfitter and be ready to be told your boots are too big for your feet. The gaps can be filled one way or another, but if you are clamping down on buckles and curling toes then that's pretty solid evidence that better fitting shells are needed. I hope I'm wrong.

ZipFits will fill gaps in certain places if they have enough of the cork filler in them in those spots. A good bootfitter can add more cork until the ZipFits do their job, but but but ZipFits can't fill in air space in the toe box nor above the top of your foot.

Get a bootfitter whose name has been recommended here. Ask for recommendations in this thread. And best of luck.