Austria vs Western USA - costs, surprising

[patoswiss]

We are pricing out a week long ski vacation for 2018/19. It is Tyrol, Austria (Serfaus Fiss Ladis) *vs* a nice big resort out West somewhere.

We have stayed at the resort in Austria several times. All inclusive board (all but fancy coffees and alcohol), family hotel with big indoor water park, game room, climbing wall, transportation via underground from hotel to bottom of gondolas. Big, clean suite, the kids have a separate bedroom. We can sit and eat our (delicious) dinner in peace and the kids eat and tell us about their day, then roam the hotel, swim, whatever. The kids are in ski school 9:30-2:30 so we can ski alone. Huge ski area, not crowded. The perfect vacation. Can't afford it every year but every other is doable.

I want the same in CO, or UT, or wherever we go. I refuse to cook and need entertainment for the kids. I don't want to drive. I want the food to be excellent, no pizza. Quality ski school everyday. So we looked at several resorts in different states, found apartments and suites with two bedrooms, priced out a chef to cook for us, priced out the lift tickets and ski school. Checked transit from hotel to ski lifts/gondolas.

Serfaus is cheaper, we are very surprised. The only question is airfare but with mileage points either is reasonable. Fly non-stop Newark-Zurich and drive 3 hours. Beautiful drive

The room with board is less than 6,000 Euros for 2 adults, 1 teen and 1 preteen. Lift tickets are 241 E for 6 days per adult, 200E for the kids, ski lessons are 298 E for 6 days per kid.

The lesson and lift tickets are noticeably more here. And creating an all inclusive option that gives me a vacation from taking care of kids and adults and not relying on cereal in the morning and pizza more than once for dinner is a lot more than I thought it would be.

The dollar is weak right now, but when comparing apples to apples, Austria was cheaper. We are surprised! So, anyone who is considering a ski vacation, try Austria!!!

 

[Jilly]

The vacation experience in Europe is so different than North America. The only similar thing would be a Club Med. Back in the 60's and 70's there were resorts with "ski weeks". In Canada the most famous was Grey Rocks. Everything you mention, all inclusive except alcohol.

Where did this experience go??

 

[patoswiss]

The entire town turns over on Saturday. Cars drive into town Saturday and everyone checks in and the cars are stowed in garages for the week. The ski school is designed around a 4 day and 6 day program, the kids have the same ski instructor every day and the same group of kids. It is Club Med on skis.

I'm so surprised I can't find that out west. Someone needs to start a business!!!

 

[Jilly]

DH and I did Club Med at Copper back in 1989. I don't know why the "ski week" disappeared.

 

[santacruz skier]

I went to Kitzbuehl in Austria last year. Stayed at a 4 star hotel with friend in the village and we each got our own deluxe suites. Price included 7 nights lodging and half board (full breakfast - buffet or made to order and wonderful dinner)... Think price for deluxe suites and half board was about $1800 each. Oh and that included bar bills, gluwein, aperol spritzers, etc. Walking distance to/from lifts and shops and restaurants, wine bars galore. Can't remember lift tickets for 6 days but somewhere around $270 euros.... Skiing in Europe is not as expensive as you may think.... Have done this many times and skied all over....
Also 2 years in a row went to Chamonix and stayed in a chalet. Now that's another bargain and really really fun. A bunch of divas could rent one as usually accommodate 10-20 people......

 

[santacruz skier]

The entire town turns over on Saturday. Cars drive into town Saturday and everyone checks in and the cars are stowed in garages for the week. The ski school is designed around a 4 day and 6 day program, the kids have the same ski instructor every day and the same group of kids. It is Club Med on skis.

I'm so surprised I can't find that out west. Someone needs to start a business!!!

Club Med is all over Europe....

 

[skibum4ever]

Grey Rocks was fun; really improved our skiing when we were starting out.

Given the conditions in the West so far this season, Europe sounds like a great idea. That's assuming that they have good snow.

 

[santacruz skier]

Europe is having a fantastic start to the season.

 

[2ski2moro]

I go to Zillertal, Austria, every year. Much less expensive for me than US western resorts.

 

[SkiGAP]

Diva Europe! I can't wait for that trip to materialize :-)

 

[Christy]

Isn't the half board/all inclusive experience in a small hotel the way a lot of people used to vacation in the US? Like, in the 1950s/earlier? And now we've gone to the a la carte model, so to speak. When I do see a place with half/full board + recreation it's usually a high end dude ranch or similar. I wonder if half or full board scares Americans. I know I've been a little leery of it-- what if the food is bad? Bit I've never had an issue. We did it in French Polynesia this spring and it was great.

I remember a thread here about why skiing in Europe is so affordable, though I can't remember exactly why it is. Maybe due to so much competition.

 

[Christy]

Okay, I was actually kind of curious about this, so I did a little googling. It sounds like there's a long tradition of European hotels offering vacationers the complete package because British tourists would come, not speak the language, not want to deal with the money, and so the hotels would make their vacation smoother by offering everything. Americans generally vacationed in the US and didn't need that ( so it looks like my earlier assumption was wrong). And apparently as a people we are not and never have been big on package holidays. So the question is, if someone did start a European style hotel with half board in Colorado, would people go for it? Do Americans want to go to Breckenridge and eat at the hotel the whole time? Mmm...

 

[patoswiss]

We would go in a heartbeat. Maybe Europeans prioritize the dinner experience more than Americans? Lifts close at 4pm, they go back to the hotel, get a shower, have a drink at the bar or go to the spa, then enjoy their dinner. A theory?

As far as other expenses that is a question. Lift Tickets.... One day in Breckenridge, looks like it is $725 (!!!!!) for 5 days. In Serfaus-Fiss-Ladis 208euro for 5days. Other areas slightly less or the same... Zermatt (Switzerland is always pricey, and chf is strong) 6 day pass is 380chf (100 more if you want to ski into Italy/France). Jack Frost here in PA is $235 for 5 days.

Zermatt 5 day, full day, ski school (with a 5 day curriculum) 495chf, 5 days Serfaus 263euro, Park City 3 day (I didn't see a 5 day option) $657!!!!. The difference in ski school and lift tickets can pay for the difference in airfare.... We make the kids do 5 day ski school, they ski every part of the mountain, come out a new skier in the end and have fun doing it.

Studies are continually showing the younger generations aren't interested in spending money on stuff, they want memorable experiences, including food. It could be the market wasn't there in the past but if designed for today's millennial and younger it could do very well. Plenty of Americans don't like the idea of traveling to a foreign land....

 

[marzNC]

Okay, I was actually kind of curious about this, so I did a little googling. It sounds like there's a long tradition of European hotels offering vacationers the complete package because British tourists would come, not speak the language, not want to deal with the money, and so the hotels would make their vacation smoother by offering everything. Americans generally vacationed in the US and didn't need that ( so it looks like my earlier assumption was wrong). And apparently as a people we are not and never have been big on package holidays. So the question is, if someone did start a European style hotel with half board in Colorado, would people go for it? Do Americans want to go to Breckenridge and eat at the hotel the whole time? Mmm...

My guess is that more Americans want "variety" in their North American ski vacation. Lots of newbies who thinking about their first big mountain ski trip ask about aprés ski and dinner options (and shopping) as much as terrain.

All-inclusive resort packages in Cozumel and the Caribbean do okay but only with people who want to have alcohol included. Americans also are happy to travel in Europe on group tours where everything is covered, including almost all meals.

American labor costs make it harder to have relatively inexpensive pricing when a high quality dinner is included. At least in comparison to Europe. So finding lodging at a reasonable price that includes a good hot breakfast is not that difficult. The lodging options I know about that include dinner are on the expensive end of the price range. Alta and Taos are the examples that come to mind. Although a dorm room at one of the five lodges in the town of Alta is really a pretty good deal even at regular season rates, assuming someone thinks spending 2 hours leisurely enjoying a 4-course meal every night is worth $50-60. The St. Bernard in Taos is full board . . . with good French cuisine. Have to plan ahead to book a room at Alta Lodge or the St. Bernard because the regulars return annually for the same week.

 

[marzNC]

Another issue for some Americans in terms of skiing in Europe is that they may want to take a 4-5 day trip. That's tough to do when getting over jet lag takes a day or two in both directions. My understanding is that lodging in Europe is essentially based on 7 nights. Going for a full week in Europe when working or kids only have a 1-week school break definitely requires a different level of travel effort than flying 1-2 time zones away.

 

[santacruz skier]

Good point. Also to be noted, Europeans have much longer vacations that Americans so a 7 night trip is doable with kids. Personally, and that's without kids, my trips to Europe usually involve skiing two different areas/sometimes countries (so that's two weeks of skiing) and also spent several days visiting other cities. Hands down it was cheaper than skiing in the US. (Obviously with airfare, trains, and other cities/hotels, it was more expensive - I'm referring to the skiing only).

 

[Cantabrigienne]

Costs are lower at European ski resorts for a huge variety of reasons - geeking out on the topic because I am an economist + urban planner, so I've done some digging into the hows & whys of ski town economies:
- Most ski towns in Europe are old farming villages and hotels are owned by individual families, not big chains. Ditto on-mountain food. Small business owners like these prioritize a long-term sustainable business with repeat visitors and price moderately rather than extortionately because they want to fill up well ahead of time with 7-day visitors - no corporate parent running algorithms and putting empty rooms on Priceline or running a promo to fill up if occupancy is running lower than expected. They also have more of a culture of being 4 season resorts (or rather, the summer season is equally busy with hikers & mountain bikers). Critically, because of the origins as actual communities rather than purpose built resorts, prices started off from a lower base because people were building small hotels on land they already owned.
- Per the ownership, resorts are not owned by big corporations and don't get bought out by private equity firms (like Intrawest being bought by Fortress) which pile on a ton of debt - with a view to paying it off with real estate development around the resort - and then try to squeeze out more cashflow out of visitors. Instead the lifts are operated usually by some kind of hybrid structure with the municipality sharing costs with a consortium of local businesses. There are some gateways into the big French resorts via tram where small farming villages had windfall funds from hydroelectric power + the community decided to build a link into a big area (like Trois Vallees or Espace Killy) as a way of diversifying their local economy.
- Labour may be expensive BUT with a settled community (and the family ownership per above) staffing is more predictable. Lower admin costs due to low turnover a plus. There's also the factor in lower staffing overheads of insurance and/or healthcare costs due to national healthcare. Plus they can pull young skibums from all over the EU. (I don't think cheaper labour from fringe EU like Romania - who you see keeping hotels clean in cities like London - play much of a factor although I've only been to the Dolomites recently.)

 

[geargrrl]

Wow thank you. Very informative.

 

[Christy]

That was really interesting! Lots of stuff I never thought about.

 

[Cantabrigienne]

Okay, I was actually kind of curious about this, so I did a little googling. It sounds like there's a long tradition of European hotels offering vacationers the complete package because British tourists would come, not speak the language, not want to deal with the money, and so the hotels would make their vacation smoother by offering everything. Americans generally vacationed in the US and didn't need that ( so it looks like my earlier assumption was wrong). And apparently as a people we are not and never have been big on package holidays. So the question is, if someone did start a European style hotel with half board in Colorado, would people go for it? Do Americans want to go to Breckenridge and eat at the hotel the whole time? Mmm...

Also - I'm not sure that the ineptitude of Brits at speaking foreign languages is really a critical factor in the halfboard arrangement, unless you were reading about the 19th century Brits who really started off tourism in the Alps, or 18c Brits on the Grand Tour staying at pensiones. It seems like it's just something that's always been done, probably dating back to the origin of the first hotel in town as a coaching inn. Most hotels will give you a rebate if you decide to skip a few dinners in house in order to check out other restaurants. I've done that before when my hotel in Kitzbuhel had really awful food - on subsequent trips my sister + I started seeking out garni hotels instead (bed and breakfast basis only) and stuck to bigger towns where there would be a range of places to eat.

However, if you're staying at a more remote hotel a bit out of town and/or you've picked your hotel on the basis of its food, I can definitely see staying in (esp if you got in your fix of socializing during apres on the ski run home!) I think we N.Americans seek more variety in food because we're used to eating such a range of cuisines + that would be a reason that even if said hotel in Breck had great food, people probably wouldn't sign up for halfboard (maybe for a 3 day weekend yes, not for a whole week). Don't forget that for a big subset of European skiers, skiing is just a way to get from meal to drink to meal! You go to these places and they have huge terraces with a roaring fire and piles of sheepskin rugs to drape over your lap so you can eat outside in the sun... Places like Zermatt and Cortina have Michelin starred "huts" on the mountain, where you plan your whole ski day around getting to lunch. Similarly, when I look at European ski hotel websites, some devote more than 1/2 the website to discussing their gastronomic options!