Help Needed: Action to save a dog from a bad owner

[Christy]

ut honestly, it is probably out of your power to fix it It's not your problem. Animal control may tell you to file a complaint. But if you do not own the dog you may have to let the whole situation go, as much as that seems wrong. You might have to move out. Remember the Serenity Prayer?
"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference".

I agree she can't necessarily fix it, and there may be a limit to her power, but she can report the dangerous behavior to animal control and set the wheels in motion for the law to work. Just like with suspected child abuse or seeing a drunk driver get into a car or other crimes this is one of those things IMO a person shouldn't turn their head away from and say, oh, it's out of my hands, what can I do.

 

[dancingspark]

What is your reaction to the dog when it misbehaves? Do you give it the same signals as your cousin does or do you react differently? I just read your comment that he won't take her outside or walk her in spite of being home and unemployed. It sounds like your cousin has a lot more problems than the dog. He needs to grow up and take responsibility for himself and yes, I agree, it sounds like it would be better to rehome the dog, if it's possible, than allow it to become a danger to him and others. I'm thinking of the recent situation of the 2 pit bulls that killed their owner. Such an unexplainable tragedy.

When she misbehaves, I give her a stern NO, and crate her immediately for about two or three minutes. When she bites me, I make a yelping sound to try and get across that it hurts, and then I tell her no and crate her. I try to be as stern and emotionless as possible when I correct her behavior. She gets a lot of treats from me when she behaves well and she knows that if she leaves my cats alone, she'll get a ton of praise. She HAS started listening to me, and I can see mild progress, but the biting is new and I don't know where that's coming from.

Yes, my cousin has a lot of problems. I won't get into it too much, but most of his problems are self-inflicted and I am his only support system. It's definitely not ideal. :/

 

[Gloria]

When she misbehaves, I give her a stern NO, and crate her immediately for about two or three minutes. When she bites me, I make a yelping sound to try and get across that it hurts, and then I tell her no and crate her. I try to be as stern and emotionless as possible when I correct her behavior. She gets a lot of treats from me when she behaves well and she knows that if she leaves my cats alone, she'll get a ton of praise. She HAS started listening to me, and I can see mild progress, but the biting is new and I don't know where that's coming from.

Yes, my cousin has a lot of problems. I won't get into it too much, but most of his problems are self-inflicted and I am his only support system. It's definitely not ideal. :/

She is asserting her dominance by biting you when you attempt to be in charge. She doesn't care that it hurts, so yelping is a positive reinforcement, if she hurts you she knows she is winning so she will continue to bite. When I worked with mine with the trainer I was not allowed to use treats either. 

 

[Little Lightning]

I rescued an aggressive do ONCE. Unfortunately at 3 years it's really hard to break a dog of all aggression it's pretty much a pattern at this point. The biggest mistake is too much affection, aggressive dogs need a firm owner that is a leader, not a coddler which brings out alpha tendencies. I know that seems counter-intuitive but sadly it's true the owner has to be the alpha. German Shepard's often times need a more strict owner as they can be headstrong in general. It doesn't sound like a good situation, I am sorry you have to deal with it. I don't know if there is a right answer.

I think all dogs need a firm leader. I hate to keep referring to Animal Planet but there was a show that dealt with little yappy dogs. In one segment the dog, don't remember the breed, was fine with the owner but got very aggressive with her fiancé. It was obvious why. The guy was a milk toast with the dog. He gave the appearance of being afraid of it so the dog took over. The dog would attack him every time he got close to the woman. It didn't bite but growled and barked at him. It was scary watching it. The expert trainer taught the guy what behavior not to accept and how to be firm with the dog. At first the guy was reluctant to follow the trainers instructions but he finally understood and took charge. It was interesting that the trainer explained that the owner has to be in command at all times even when walking the dog. For example, the dog should not be allowed to wander all over the place, it should be trained to follow, not to lead. How many people realize that there is a correct procedure for walking your dog? I didn't and neither do most of the dog walkers in my neighborhood.

 

[Little Lightning]

I think all dogs need a firm leader. I hate to keep referring to Animal Planet but there was a show that dealt with little yappy dogs. In one segment the dog, don't remember the breed, was fine with the owner but got very aggressive with her fiancé. It was obvious why. The guy was a milk toast with the dog. He gave the appearance of being afraid of it so the dog took over. The dog would attack him every time he got close to the woman. It didn't bite but growled and barked at him. It was scary watching it. The expert trainer taught the guy what behavior not to accept and how to be firm with the dog. At first the guy was reluctant to follow the trainers instructions but he finally understood and took charge. It was interesting that the trainer explained that the owner has to be in command at all times even when walking the dog. For example, the dog should not be allowed to wander all over the place, it should be trained to follow, not to lead. How many people realize that there is a correct procedure for walking your dog? I didn't and neither do most of the dog walkers in my neighborhood.

The trainer didn't use treats either but definitely a firm Stop.

 

[dancingspark]

She is asserting her dominance by biting you when you attempt to be in charge. She doesn't care that it hurts, so yelping is a positive reinforcement, if she hurts you she knows she is winning so she will continue to bite. When I worked with mine with the trainer I was not allowed to use treats either. 

That's so interesting. I wouldn't have assumed that. I've been going off what I can find on the internet. We definitely need a trainer involved...Google is not serving me well in this case.

 

[Gloria]

I think all dogs need a firm leader. I hate to keep referring to Animal Planet but there was a show that dealt with little yappy dogs. In one segment the dog, don't remember the breed, was fine with the owner but got very aggressive with her fiancé. It was obvious why. The guy was a milk toast with the dog. He gave the appearance of being afraid of it so the dog took over. The dog would attack him every time he got close to the woman. It didn't bite but growled and barked at him. It was scary watching it. The expert trainer taught the guy what behavior not to accept and how to be firm with the dog. At first the guy was reluctant to follow the trainers instructions but he finally understood and took charge. It was interesting that the trainer explained that the owner has to be in command at all times even when walking the dog. For example, the dog should not be allowed to wander all over the place, it should be trained to follow, not to lead. How many people realize that there is a correct procedure for walking your dog? I didn't and neither do most of the dog walkers in my neighborhood.

This is very true, the other thing I learned is not only do you lead but if the dog reacts towards another you have to stare straight ahead act stern and keep moving without paying attention to the dog or even acknowledging the behavior. It was a very long 11 years with that dog. And constant constant training through all of them. She never bit people but was very dog aggressive. I think she made it the last 4-5 years of her life without nothing more than a couple scuffles but I could never let up my guard, I always had to be on top of her and pay attention to her body language and dominance oriented behaviors at all times. She was also the hardest dog to lose because she was so so much work.

 

[Christy]

She is asserting her dominance by biting you when you attempt to be in charge. She doesn't care that it hurts, so yelping is a positive reinforcement, if she hurts you she knows she is winning so she will continue to bite. When I worked with mine with the trainer I was not allowed to use treats either. 

Here I'll just say there are different theories about dog training, and a lot of people would not agree with this, or with any methods that talk about dominance/alpha, which is quite an older style that isn't backed by modern research.

How many people realize that there is a correct procedure for walking your dog? I didn't and neither do most of the dog walkers in my neighborhood.

Also very old school. There's not one "correct procedure" for dog walking. Don't believe tv dog trainers. They do many takes. When you read interviews with people that used to work on Cesar Milan's show, they say he seemed to be absolutely clueless as to what he was doing, then he'd just keep doing different stuff until he got the take he wanted, and they'd go back and film it so it seemed like he got what he knew he wanted.

While it's not necessarily bad to be old school about something, in this case we know--it's been studied so much--that positive reinforcement works better than the old alpha/dominance style (which wasn't actually the thing for all that long). Like any science dog behavior and training will undoubtedly continue to evolve, but at the moment there's no debate among scientists/animal behaviorists. Here's a round up of studies:
https://www.companionanimalpsychology.com/2012/08/positive-reinforcement-and-dog-training.html

Dancingspark, if you were going to stay there for any length of time I'd suggest you find a trainer that is using science based methods; definitely someone that has CPDT-KA, CPDT-KSA, or CBCC-KA certifications and ideally someone with graduate degree in applied animal behavior.

 

[dancingspark]

Dancingspark, if you were going to stay there for any length of time I'd suggest you find a trainer that is using science based methods; definitely someone that has CPDT-KA, CPDT-KSA, or CBCC-KA certifications and ideally someone with graduate degree in applied animal behavior.

Thanks, I will look around for those certs. There must be good dog trainers here, because it's Denver and the ratio of people to dogs seems like 1:2.

 

[geargrrl]

don't get me going on expando leashes... bane of the dog training world...

 

[Gloria]

Here I'll just say there are different theories about dog training, and a lot of people would not agree with this, or with any methods that talk about dominance/alpha, which is quite an older style that isn't backed by modern research.

Here I'll just say there are different theories about dog training, and a lot of people would not agree with this, or with any methods that talk about dominance/alpha, which is quite an older style that isn't backed by modern research.

What are the new types of aggression? I have only heard of dominance aggression and fear aggression. Both of which my dog had extensive behavioral testing to determine which one she because we didn't know her history for the 2.5 years of her life before I rescued her.

 

[bounceswoosh]

don't get me going on expando leashes... bane of the dog training world...

My thoughts exactly. I wince whenever I see one.

 

[bounceswoosh]

So as to different philosophies - I'm by far not an expert - except in my dogs. Loki has zero response to treats, toys, etc, and cannot be swayed from his desires by praise. Being very clear about what I didn't want - not with violence, but simply with a harsh sound and a tug on the leash - did wonders. He's now coming in from the yard regularly without me having to go fetch him. Okay, that doesn't sound like a lot, but for him, it's pretty shocking.

 

[Little Lightning]

Also very old school. There's not one "correct procedure" for dog walking. Don't believe tv dog trainers. They do many takes. When you read interviews with people that used to work on Cesar Milan's show, they say he seemed to be absolutely clueless as to what he was doing, then he'd just keep doing different stuff until he got the take he wanted, and they'd go back and film it so it seemed like he got what he knew he wanted.

It may have been old school but with this dog and this person it appeared effective. When the dog was allowed to walk ahead it wandered everywhere, did not listen to the man. When the dog followed it was much better behaved. I think training very much depends on the individual and the dog. I also think a good trainer tries to understand what is going on with the owners that may cause the behavior. This lady did that. In my neighborhood I've seen all kinds of "dog walking" methods. Dog in front, by the walkers side, following, some wandering everywhere. One lady with a walker has a shelf on it and her dog is trained on command to jump onto it. Some walkers are very oblivious of what the dogs are doing. Since we have coyotes in the area if I had a dog I certainly would have the dog trained to walk very close to me. Not sure about behind me because I'd worry that it would be too easy to snatch it.

One thing I've learned by being a cat owner and watching these programs, actually, I only regularly watch "The Cat from Hell" is how our own behavior and actions affect our pets.

 

[Moonrocket]

An interesting option in Denver is the prison trained K9 program. https://www.coloradoci.com/serviceproviders/puppy/index.html?p=aboutDogsDiv

We got our dog there and we're getting another soon! When we got her two of our friends were so impressed they brought their problem child dogs in for a month of training. One of them was going to give up on her dog and the program improved her behavior so much that they have been happy for years since.

It's not cheap $750/mo full time live in training. (Was a lot less 8 years ago). It did help two friends of mine who were crazy frustrated.

I hope you can find something that works!

 

[Gloria]

Thanks, I will look around for those certs. There must be good dog trainers here, because it's Denver and the ratio of people to dogs seems like 1:2.

Here's the thing though, when a dog reaches this level of aggression you are beyond basic obedience. This is not something you go to a couple months of training or drop it off at camp for six weeks and be done with. When I went through this, albeit it was old school this is just an example of how strenuous it was and how long it took. First we had to pick one family member who was going to be on charge of working with her, consistent and committed to doing so for the entire life of the dog. Back then dogs were believed to follow a pack style following a leader so someone had to be her leader. They were also believed to be controlled by the pleasure Center in their brains based on instinctual drives such as pleasure, prey and praise. The first phase of training involved me becoming the leader and finding ways to make me more desirable to her through her praise and play drives than the other dogs were to her prey drive. This was done without food because if I ever got into a situation where she might attack another dog and I didn't have a treat and she knew I didn't, I couldn't be more exciting than attacking another dog was. After this phase she had to be desensitized. Finally she was able to enter basic obedience, although she was actually always an obedient dog for most practical purposes, it was socialization. It took several of these before she reached a point where she could sit still and be calm in a class. All of this took over a year maybe close to two. But even then it wasn't over, the instinct never fully goes away so I had to work with her everyday. Back then as the leader, I had to eat first, make her wait and release her to eat. Her release word had to be something that wouldn't come up casually in conversation. Like okay or go ahead because I might be trying to control her around another dog and someone might say, she's okay or go ahead to me. I had to exit doorways first , be on the lookout for behavior that could be considerred dominant and on and on. So whether they use new methods or not this is simply an example of the commitment, time and work it takes to live with and keep an aggressive dog from being a safety issue.
That being said if you feel you have to do something you have to either take over the dog and be committed for life not just offer a handful of training sessions, feel comfortable that your cousin will in fact do so, do nothing, or seek outside help. If it were me, I would find the closest german Shepard rescue group. The humane society is awesome, but it is also full of nervous dogs which this one is going to react to. If the dog is purebred from a decent breeder, your cousin likely signed a contract that would allow the breeder to take the animal back in this situation. The rescue group can track down the breeder and assist in this or they can work within their network and place the dog directly into a home situation with someone who routinely does this type of thing rather than a shelter where she could be a threat to the other animals. Yes, they do know how handle dogs at the shelter, I'm not saying they don't, but if you can get the dog into a situation where it isn't going to be as much of a threat to other dogs and people this is better for all involved.

 

[2ski2moro]

Gloria makes some really good points. BTW, my release word is Freedom.

I have been trained by one of the finest trainers in Europe, whose specialty is the Hovawart breed. Large, smart dogs who can think and evaluate the situation. German shepherds are like that, too.

One of the things that will help is immediately correcting the dog when an undesirable action occurs. The key here is IMMEDIATE so that the dog recognizes that his behavior is unacceptable.

Carry a water bottle at all times. When the dog does something undesirable, splash the dog. I'm not talking about a misting, squirt bottle. I'm talking about a dish soap bottle or a bicycle water bottle and splash the dog in the head. It will not hurt the dog, but it gives immediate feedback that this behavior is unacceptable. It breaks the concentration on the object.

You must be one step ahead of the dog at all times. Watch for behavior cues. Is the dog looking at the cat, tense and poised for attack? Splash before the dog even moves. Redirect the focus.

Is the dog blocking you? Splash. Regain control.

My dog walked around with a wet head for weeks, but her behavior changed. Dog puberty is a horrible time and bad behavior can develop quickly.

You can splash indoors, as long as you are not around electronics. A little water isn't going to hurt the floor or carpet.

When the dog is outside, watch for clues. Tensing, raising a paw slightly, eye movements? Splash. Keep the dog on a short (6') leash. Where is the dog looking? Focused on cats? Splash.

What are his temptations? Be aware at all times. The water must come quickly and, from the dog's point of view, out of nowhere.

This doesn't hurt the dog, it's not designed to hurt like an electro collar. Splashing is humane. It is designed to break the concentration on the undesired object and redirect the dog's focus.

This is a first, but important step. There is so much for your cousin to learn and so little time.

I also agree with those who have said to find a rescue group. If the dog is reported or goes to a shelter, the dog will certainly not be trained. The poor dog, who did nothing more than his animal instinct dictates, will be doomed without proper training. The rescue group can help if all else fails.

 

[nopoleskier]

How difficult, wonderful you are doing some training. Dogs like to please and do respond to training but the Cousin needs to accept he's a poor pet owner..

Biting can not be tolerated.. We kept an abandoned puppy... she was out of control when we got her, she's definitely Akita and perhaps some shepard, she was biting all the time, since a puppy it seemed like playing but it was too much. some times she did get aggressive. she was acting like a rabid dog some days when she didn't want to go home. I really was getting scared as she got bigger that she could bite me hard even by 'accident" Finally I got a Muzzle (she could still breath, drink water) anytime she was being aggressive and not listening I'd put the muzzle on for 20min and or put her in her crate. I have even BIT her back.. it actually helped.

It was a lot of work, She is now very good on the leash I used a cloth choke collar (I won't use metal) She is so head strong it is still some days a work out to keep her in check. she still has temper tantrums (gets in the trash and shreds anything paper) but after 2yrs she's come a long way (curled up next to me on the couch) and we can leave her home alone and not in her crate unless she's had a tantrum prior to our leaving.

she doesn't bite any more but when acting up all we have to say is "do you need the muzzle" and she instantly calms down or goes in her crate. I don't even take it with me on our walks. just the sight of it makes her stop whatever it is she's doing bad..

Strong willed dogs need strong owners, your cousin clearly is not that. to leave a dog in a crate until it defects is Abuse IMHO.. You should encourage him to get to some training and try to re-hab the dog together. He needs to go w/you or it's useless since the dog will know it can be a jerk w/him and behave with you. I suggest Get a muzzle you'll be amazed at how quickly the dog will 'get it" and taking the dog for a walk will keep others safe.

Yes to the water training.. that worked for a while now then ours decided its a game and she tries to drink the squirts! a metal can (tennis ball can works great) with coins in it also works to 'wake' a dog up shake it the rattle makes them come to attention quickly. Good luck I hope you can re-hab the dog. Like I always say it's not the dogs fault it's the owner and sadly your cousin should not have a dog. Please Do Not Let him get another I would definitely turn him in if he does. Dogs in Crates for 12hrs is Horrible!!

 

[2ski2moro]

Yes, a muzzle is not cruel. It is protection until the dog can be trained not to attack while he is walking.

 

[Gloria]

I can't speak to the effectiveness of muzzle training or anything like that but....I think trying to put a muzzle on a dog that is already biting in response to basic commands could have some serious consequences for the muzzler. This dog isn't a puppy it's instincts are fully formed and going in full force like that could trigger a pretty serious attack - something like this would be best left up to professional discretion for safety.