Hockey stop for beginners/intermediates

[Ursula]

Meant to add, I do think that introducing hockey stops with upper body rotation - as demonstrated by those skiers in your first videos - just reinforces a bad habit that will have to be undone later. That's why I wouldnt want teach it too early. PSIA has a mantra not to teach things you have to later undo.

I agree with Skisailor. In the video, all the skiers use a body rotation to get the skis turned. That is actually not the way hockey stop should be taught. :o)
Proper Hockey stops are executed with leg-rotation and a countered upper body.
Ursula

 

[Jilly]

CSIA uses it for exactly as Ursula states - counter rotation. Separation of upper and lower body. Stopping is a plus.

 

[abc]

That's how I felt about "learning hockey stop". That it should be an end result of side slip done right. Not itself a skill to be taught.

That said, for kids, there's a slight difference. They're going to imitate others without discrimination. So, taught or not, they're going to pick up hockey stop at some point, most likely by imitating their instructor who does it on auto-pilot out for habit!

 

[tinymoose]

Hockey stops! I love hockey stops. It's the only way I could navigate steeper terrain until I actually took some lessons. Every turn on steeper slopes was pretty much a hockey stop, rinse and repeat. lol. Granted, my hockey stops were self-taught and so I learned the bad habit of no upper/lower body separation. I still have to think about it, or I still turn my upper body too much out of habit.

 

[powderfan]

Interesting discussion. In the Austrian ski-school, where I teach, it is the same as Ursula and Jilly both write: counter rotation. We teach side slipping first and speed control by steering upwards the mountain. We teach hockey stops when skiers start to learn parallel turns. Finishing the turn and steering up the mountain to control speed is more usefull for (advancing) beginners that don't ski parallel turns. A hockeystop is needed when speed increases and people start skiing more in the fall-line. That is also the point where people are able to perform a hockeystop. Even then a lot of skiers (unfortunately) still do a hockeystop with bodyrotation (as the first video shows). I spend a lot of time "un"-teaching intermediate skiers bodyrotation....... and enjoy instructing

 

[SkiBam]

That's how I felt about "learning hockey stop". That it should be an end result of side slip done right. Not itself a skill to be taught.

I agree that side slipping is key. But I also think hockey stops SHOULD be taught - though certainly not before the student is ready. And taught properly of course (without using the upper body to turn). As people get more advanced, knowing they can stop suddenly is a great confidence booster. And the ability to head straight down the hill, then stop (in both directions) while remaining in the same line down the hill, is a great way to improve skills. (pivoting, balance, edging)

 

[Ursula]

.... and let's not forget the TRUE reason kids want to learn the hockey stop! ........ you can spray your buddies with a LOT of snow!!!!!

 

[BackCountryGirl]

@BackCountryGirl : do your kids all know how to hockey stop? How did they learn?

MarzNC: The young skiers I ski with all know how to do hockey stops. It is something we absolutely teach them in our day lesson and seasonal programs. But, as everyone has said, it's to reinforce leg steering and comes only after they can make some basic parallel turns.

There are some basic "hockey stop" progressions. Forward side slips, backward side slips; straight side slips, side slips with an edge set (show everyone at the bottom of the hill the bottoms of your skis/the "catch and release" game), straight run to side slip to edge set.

Sometimes, kids come with a good idea of a hockey stop if they know how to skate. When I taught at a small hill here in Maine, so many 4 and 5 year-olds already were skaters who had hockey stops down pat before they could ski.

 

[liquidfeet]

I usually lurk here but I'll jump in. I'm a New England instructor who usually teaches adults, both never-evers and lower intermediates.

That first lesson for never-evers is not usually the place for hockey stops. Many people are in ill-fitting rental boots. They can't even side-slip with a feeling of security because their feet slide all around inside the boot as they try. Tipping the skis downhill to almost flat so they can sideslip in a controlled fashion, then tipping them back uphill again to get grip and stop can be very difficult because they have air above their instep and to the sides of their feet. This air makes their feet slide sideways inside the boot the whole time they are trying the exercise. Add some fore-aft slop in their boots and then they feel like they are going to slide out of control either forwards or backwards, and they are right. With beginners who can't sideslip (or side-step!) you can often blame the boot fit.

Hockey stops are out of the question for other reasons, though, in that first lesson. Achieving upper-lower body separation is very difficult for brand new skiers. If I had an all-day lesson with these folks, and if they were in snug boots, I could maybe do it. But with a 1 1/2 hour beginner lesson (what I have to work with) it's probably not going to happen. It would be wrong to teach inadequate hockey stops to someone who did not have the upper-lower body separation in place. (Hockey players, figure skaters, inline skaters, and dancers are a different story.)

When I teach lower intermediates, in my initial assessment I often ask them if they can do a hockey stop. If they say yes, I have them show me. More often than not they are using upper body rotation, and their "hockey stop" includes travel left or right. So we work on separation for the rest of the lesson, and if that clicks before the lesson ends, I go the sideslip route to hockey stops. When they get it, it's a big light-bulb moment and cements in place the value of making turns with the separation. They can feel the extra power of leg action when it happens without the turning of the torso.

 

[marzNC]

Good to hear from instructors about hockey stops, especially the association with side slipping. Makes sense to me that a hockey stop comes after the basics are covered. Since I learned them long ago on straight skis and never got past the stem-christie stage (only skied 2 seasons in middle school), I didn't associate hockey stops with parallel turns.

Hope those beginners/intermediates who posted in the other recent thread are reading. @ruthies49 , @litterbug , @Nic Nic , @NewEnglandSkier : do you have any questions?

 

[litterbug]

There are some basic "hockey stop" progressions. Forward side slips, backward side slips; straight side slips, side slips with an edge set (show everyone at the bottom of the hill the bottoms of your skis/the "catch and release" game), straight run to side slip to edge set.

Thanks for laying that out, BackCountryGirl. I do almost all of that in the course of normal skiing--except that I suck at skiing backward. I know what I need to do but I tend to get nervous about skiing backward into an obstacle, so I'm actively working on it. I'm also a little weaker with my left foot downhill, just like in my turns,, but I'm working on that too.

Hockey stops are out of the question for other reasons, though, in that first lesson. Achieving upper-lower body separation is very difficult for brand new skiers. If I had an all-day lesson with these folks, and if they were in snug boots, I could maybe do it. But with a 1 1/2 hour beginner lesson (what I have to work with) it's probably not going to happen. It would be wrong to teach inadequate hockey stops to someone who did not have the upper-lower body separation in place.

Maybe that's why even my more recent instructors haven't taught it to me--I've only recently been getting any upper-lower body separation to speak of, because for a while I progressed very slowly without taking lessons (bad experiences made me loth to gamble money on the chance of a good instructor), so I simply missed a lot of fundamentals. And maybe those recent guys just assumed I could do one.

Another thing: I always thought the main purpose of the hockey stop was to impress people, and I've always been able to stop or to simply avoid emergencies by keeping a sharp eye on other skiers and the run in front of me, so it never occurred to me that it was an actual skill I ought to learn. But this thread is convincing me that it's a skill that I need to work on. So thanks to all who've offered help building yet another useful Diva thread!

 

[Jersey Fresh]

This is a really interesting thread to read after my experience with my BF learning this weekend. I too wondered why they dont teach that to start. I know its balance issue, but I also felt like if he knew how to do a HS and felt like he could drop speed ASAP if he needed, he woudl have been more confident. But I see why its not taught yet after reading this.

 

[litterbug]

I should have re-read this thread before my last "I love drills" day. I did practice hockey stops a little, and while I didn't think I traveled left or right while skidding to a stop, I always seemed to end up sliding forward slowly after I stopped going downward.

Does the forward slide mean I don't have enough upper-lower body separation? Or is my weight just a little too far forward? Or can you even tell without pictures?

 

[volklgirl]

Hard to say without a picture, but I'd guess a combination up U/L body separation and not turning the skis fully up the hill to a complete stop. That's the usual thing I see with people learning to hockey stop.

 

[litterbug]

Hard to say without a picture, but I'd guess a combination up U/L body separation and not turning the skis fully up the hill to a complete stop. That's the usual thing I see with people learning to hockey stop.

I though I was supposed to come to a complete stop with my skis parallel and perpendicular to the fall line. If I end up with the skis turned uphill or downhill I'll finish by sliding until I'm facing across the hill...right? Or am I being too picky?

 

[liquidfeet]

I though I was supposed to come to a complete stop with my skis parallel and perpendicular to the fall line. If I end up with the skis turned uphill or downhill I'll finish by sliding until I'm facing across the hill...right? Or am I being too picky?

Your skis should be facing across the hill, but not your upper body, in a hockey stop. So yes, skis perpendicular to fall line is what you need.
Your upper body should be facing downhill while those skis face across the hill.
Your hips should be low, and your upper body bent forward, downhill, at the hip.
Your hands and arms should be stretched out over the skis reaching directly downhill.
Your uphill leg will be bent more than your downhill leg, and its ski tip will be ahead of the other.
Your weight and all the forces you feel should be concentrated on your downhill ski, which is the one that stops you.

If you are not skidding to a complete stop, here's my guess. You are probably facing your upper body to the side of the hill in the direction the skis are pointing, and leaning your whole upper body back uphill. With this combination, your downhill ski can't get a high enough edge angle nor enough weight on it to stop you.

Does that sound about right?

 

[litterbug]

I do stop moving downhill; I just drift forward after that. But for some reason I had the idea that I was supposed to have my weight on both feet, probably from a video I should have ignored. I have separation and balance over the outside/downhill ski when I start, but putting some weight on my inside ski probably got me leaning in and losing separation, so that I ended up facing more across the hill when I stopped going downhill, and a little residual inertia just slid me a few feet forward across the hill.

For me, weight on the outside ski means hands downhill and separation/articulation, so just getting my weight right should stop the drifting.

Thanks!

 

[SkiBam]

Litterbug, if you find you're drifting forward, try flexing the ankles a bit more and see if that stops the forward move.