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Lift Ticket Arrest
- Thread starter Little Lightning
- Start date
Slidergirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ahhh, so you're the one who wants to "borrow" the pass.
(Just kidding) I guess you'll have to get "friends and family" tickets or hunt for those discount specials that are always around. Or, find a friend with a transferable pass...
toughgirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ahhh, so you're the one who wants to "borrow" the pass.
I guess you'll have to get "friends and family" tickets or hunt for those discount specials that are always around. Or, find a friend with a transferable pass...
Yes I am one of those that wants to borrow... LOL.. I'll admit it
Kiragirl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
whitewater girl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I get the season pass at my local resort - under $300 if bought at the end of the previous season, no blackout dates, a really great deal.
I work during the week & ski weekends - if I went halvsies with a friend who's retired & skis weekdays, the resort would loose half of our revenue. If we split that even further (say, someone only can ski tuesdays & thursdays, another wednesdays & fridays, another weekends, etc.), they'd make less still...
...looking at the number of resorts that have gone under in recent years, well, some places maybe could afford to loose that revenue, but many can't (I'm sure my local one can't afford it!). If you want places to ski in the future, respect the fact that they are businesses which need to pay for salaries/utilities/insurance/taxes/maintenance/upgrades & pay for your privilage to ski there...
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The rf chip identifies you uniquely. The passholders picture is in VR system and it shows on the lift scanners screen when the pass is scanned. That's how the woman got caught, she didn't look like the man on picture.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I haven't been to VR since they started this, so I guess I'm confused. In the RF systems I've used, you put the card in a pocket and go through a gate that opens automatically; no scanner is used. You wouldn't have a picture show up unless there was some issue with the pass and the gate not opening, I guess.
itri
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
The only difference between the old system and the new system with the RF chip is that your pass doesn't have to be out and visible to be scanned. You still go through the same line as everyone else and have to be scanned by the hand-held scanner. As LL mentioned, your picture pops up on the screen so that they can identify you. It doesn't really save any time, in my experience, but it is kind of nice not having the hassle of tucking the pass back in my pocket after scanning so it doesn't flop around while skiing (I have a hook inside my pocket for my pass). I learned last time I was up, though, that having certain things in the same pocket, like spare handwarmers, interferes with the scanner, so I still had to take the pass out to be scanned until I figured that out.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Ah, well, then, I remove VR from my query. :-) In Europe, and at Alta, and I can't remember if anywhere else, you just keep the pass in your pocket, ski up to a turnstile kind of thing, and it opens (or not). I don't know why you couldn't share passes that way, but maybe the savings in scanning personnel make up for any fraud ... dunno.
We have RF scanners here. You go to the gate and once the sensor in the turnstyle activates you can walk through. There are still employees standing in the distance with handheld machines with screens. They can remotely activate a turnstyle if an error code is read and I learned last season they pull your pass info and picture up too so they can see. One guy actually told me how many days I had used with my pass. I like the RF thing more for not having to fiddle with any passes to scan. Place your pass in your jacket somewhere on your upper body and that is it.
MaineSkiLady
Angel Diva
Talk about 21st century tech.....will be decades before we ever see anything like this in this region. Here, in a state that has started to to think that maybe it might be a good idea to START putting medical records on computers??? Really?? And in a region where annual auto registrations are done One. By. One. Every. Year. On an...(ready for this?)...electric typewriter. 
(don't ask - no, I don't know why, I'm not from here, I just live here and deal w/it)
(don't ask - no, I don't know why, I'm not from here, I just live here and deal w/it)
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
VR announced this morning that they've caught and proscuted more lift pass violations from Jan. 1, 09 thru Dec. 3, 09 compared to last year.
They also reported 11% more season pass sales than last year.
With the RF chip technology, if they chose to install the readers, they can track you on the mountain. For example, this technology is used in warehouses to track skids of merchandise. The technology is about 10 yrs old, is becoming less expensive which is why ski areas are utilizing it. Apparently, it's working for VR.
update: 188 cases this year vs 82 last year. Not clear if only at Vail or all VR.
They also reported 11% more season pass sales than last year.
With the RF chip technology, if they chose to install the readers, they can track you on the mountain. For example, this technology is used in warehouses to track skids of merchandise. The technology is about 10 yrs old, is becoming less expensive which is why ski areas are utilizing it. Apparently, it's working for VR.
update: 188 cases this year vs 82 last year. Not clear if only at Vail or all VR.
whitewater girl
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
huh, I wonder if this can be used to help locate "lost" skiers...
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I don't think there is much range as far as actually locating someone, but you would know the last lift they rode up. I don't know for sure, though.
I don't think it has to do with the range of the technology. But they have to make it insensitive enough so it doesn't trigger the neighboring turnstile!
Yes, I'm pretty sure they can tell when and which was the last lift a lost skier rode up.
Little Lightning
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
To track skiers they'd install readers at various locations on the mtn, when a skier passes a reader it would scan them. They'd even know the # of times the skier entered a lodge.
Not sure if or why a ski area would do this it's just technology that is available to them.
Not sure if or why a ski area would do this it's just technology that is available to them.
pinto
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
That's what I meant ... you have to be close to read it, but I don't know if the reader is insensitive, or the signal is weak. Do I have to go back to science class now?
Okay ... well, I got curious, and found this article, which is fairly interesting in light of all this. Seems that Vail uses a higher frequency RF than other ski areas, but the range is still only "tens of feet" as opposed to the inches of regular RFID. https://www.rfidjournal.com/article/print/4193
Vail Picks New Line With UHF RFID-Powered Passes
The resort operator estimates it will issue RFID-enabled season passes for the 2008-2009 winter season, and deploy readers at its five ski areas.
By Mary Catherine O'Connor
July 15, 2008—Last winter, Vail Resorts traversed new technological terrain, conducting a proof-of-concept test in which it employed RFID tags to read and validate roughly 1,000 season passes, carried by ski patrollers and ski school employees at Vail Mountain. With the concept tested and proven, the resort company has decided to take the plunge and issue RFID-enabled season passes to patrons and employees of Vail Mountain and its three other Colorado ski areas—Breckenridge, Keystone and Beaver Creek—as well as the Heavenly resort on the California-Nevada border.
Embedding RFID tags into ski passes, of course, is nothing new—its been a common practice in Europe for many years, and a growing number of U.S. ski resorts have started embracing the practice as well (see Alta Opts for RFID Lift Tickets, Aspen Signs With Skidata, RTP for Integrated RFID/POS System). But Vail is taking the trail less skied. While high-frequency (HF) passive RFID tags operating at 13.56 MHz have become standard for ski pass applications, Vail is utilizing newer, ultrahigh-frequency (UHF) passive EPC Gen 2 tags, which operate at 900 MHz and can be read from much greater distances than HF tags.
Vail's season passes, such as the Epic Pass, contain an embedded RFID tag providing unlimited lift access at the company's ski resorts.
In 2007, the firm hired RFID hardware and systems developer SkyeTek to help it determine the ways in which RFID could be integrated into resort operations to improve customer experience and business operations and assist it in undertaking a proof-of-concept test (see Vail Resorts Sees RFID in the Forecast). But after completing its testing last year, Vail opted to take its RFID project in-house, says Robert Urwiler, the resort's chief information officer for Vail Resorts.
Starting next winter, Urwiler says, lift ticket scanners at all of Vail's resorts will use handheld readers—Intermec's CN3 mobile computer with an IP30 handheld EPC Gen 2 RFID reader attachment and an integrated bar-code scanner—to collect the unique identification number encoded to each season pass as skiers and snowboarders approach base lifts. (A base lift is a ski lift that loads from the base area of a ski resort—as opposed to those loading from higher points on the mountain.)
The handheld will transmit the ID to back-end software, via a Wi-Fi network link, where the software—developed on a Microsoft platform by Vail's in-house IT staff—will perform a query to ascertain whether the pass ID is valid. If it is, the software will send the pass holder’s digital image, as well as personal data, such as name and birth date, back to the handheld. The employee will then compare the image with the actual skier or snowboarder .
If a ticket scanner has any doubts regarding whether the image matches that person (which can be difficult to determine when a customer is wearing a hat and goggles), he or she can ask a challenge question, such as "What is your birth date?" Although this approach of verifying season passes is expected to take no less time than the conventional method of physically inspecting them, it is intended to make the process more convenient for customers, who won't have to dig season passes out of pockets to show resort personnel.
EPC Gen 2 UHF tags' long read range (tens of feet, versus just a few inches with HF) is the main reason Vail opted for UHF. While HF tags would provide sufficient range to read season passes with a handheld interrogator, Vail has other applications in mind that would require a longer read range. The resort believes these applications will serve up a new level of visibility into the habits and interests of its customers that it can then use to improve its services. "UHF gives us more flexibility than HF," Urwiler says, because of its longer read range. "It gives us better visibility."
During last season's testing, Vail evaluated both the Intermec handheld readers and Intermec IF61 fixed-position readers, which can read tags from a greater distance than the handheld models. The reader antennas were placed above the loading point at various chairlifts positioned above the base lifts, with the intention of reading tag IDs worn by season pass holders as they board a chairlift. "At [Vail Mountain's] upper lifts, traditionally, people's tickets have not been checked at all," Urwiler says, "which means the ski areas do not know things such as a skier's last known location [after a pass is read at the base lifts], and this information could be useful for safety reasons."
Knowing the whereabouts of skiers and snowboarders higher on the mountains could also provide valuable insights for marketers and ski area planners, Urwiler says—not because the resorts want to track individual people, but because they could benefit by watching group movements. For example, it could prove useful to know the average age or gender of skiers and snowboarders riding a chairlift that accesses a given terrain park, or those that access the most challenging runs, as well as the numbers of people using those lifts throughout a particular day. .... (more at link)
dloveski
Ski Diva Extraordinaire
I hated this part of the RFID scanning when I was hosting at Solitude...the manager could actually bust a host who snuck in a few pow shots during the 'forbidden' hours before 10:30 am and during lunch crunch on holidays. Grrrrr.
And the lifties have these little hand scanners that they would use to bust poachers using someone else's pass. It was always tough to watch the young kids get escorted off to the Sheriff....
Better get used to it.
