So THAT'S how boots are supposed to fit (I think)

[SnowGlider]

TA DAA!! I think I finally understand how ski boots are supposed to fit.

I returned 3 pairs of sloppy size 25 boots to the store and finally crammed my feet into a full size smaller. Owowowow! I've skied in them twice now. First time was horrible, so much pain. Today was greatly improved.

I was able to ski intermediate hills pain free with the cuff moderately tightened. When I got on a black trail (very hard frozen granular), I felt anxious, overtightened the boots, legs were killing me, and I took a very long fall.

Fit: 1 finger in the shell; toes fairly hard against the front when standing, lightly grazing when flexing. Heel seems to be snug. No real pressure points or loose points. I think I will be able to adapt to this fit. I'm skiing a lot better than in the size 25s.

But now I have some questions about technique that arise from having a close-fitting boot.

I have probably ALWAYS skied in too-large boots, which must have affected my style. I'd like to make some corrections for maximum skill and comfort.

PROBLEM: On black trails I'm overtightening the cuff to gain control. I've never really learned to ski with forward pressure on the front of the cuff. I think fear has prevented me from doing that, and sloppy boots.

QUESTIONS:

1) Where should you put the most pressure, both in the boots and on the skis?

2) What can I change about my technique so that I can have maximum control of my skis on steep trails, with only moderate tightening of the top 2 buckles?

I'm going to try to sign up for a lesson to focus on these questions.

Thanks for your wisdom in the meantime!

 

[Jilly]

Spend the money on some lessons. Without seeing you ski its hard to diagnose. But generally, you should have "feeling" on the front of the boots. The pressure on your boot front makes the "atheletic stance like boucing a ball - dribbling a basketball. Really good skiers -top instructors, not me yet - can ski with their boot unbuckled and only the power strap done up. Balance baby, balance. So buckling your boots up tighter only makes them hurt. Find that balance spot. As for ski pressure, that has to do with turns and speed. Pressure control is a finesse thing. Hard to learn and comes with experience.

 

[ski now work later]

Your shin should be pressed against the tongue of the boot as you move down the fall line. I also recommend lessons, including a WAA (Women's Alpine Adventure) clinic at Okemo if you can swing the time and expense next season! I did the 2 day clinic in Feb. 06 and it was awesome.:p

 

[altagirl]

I agree that it's hard to diagnose without seeing you.

But I'd say you want your foot solidly on the footbed - from your heel to your toes. Don't curl your toes to grip or anything. I do feel like I pressure the ball of my foot to "drive" the ski, and my shins feel like they're up against the front of the boot.

That said, good fitting boots should be no problem to ski with them totally unbuckled on a groomer. If you're in cruddy snow, or something deeper where it's on top of the ski it'll cause some problems and make the skis wobble around. But try it. It's a good drill that a lot of racers and good skiers do - start your first run of the day with your boots unbuckled. Ski an easier run and try your best to relax your feet. Kind of like yoga when you're in mountain pose and you feel your whole foot pushing into the ground at the same time - your toes, heels, sides of your feet... It's very common to clench your toes or tense up your feet (or overtighten buckles) to try and gain more control, but all you'll end up with is cramped feet and calves. Once you practice with them unbuckled, then just buckle them gradually until they're holding your feet snugly, but not tight. (no cramping and no loss of circulation.)

 

[SnowGlider]

Ski with my boots unbuckled? EEEEK!!!

I am seriously going to pass on that, thank you.

But are you folks telling me that it's only an ILLUSION that I have greater control with my boots buckled tight???

Maybe you're right, since I fell today soon after cinching those babies up till they gasped for mercy at the top of the black diamond.

I would dearly love to ski pain free. I've been in pain for most of the last 5 years. It's a mystery why I keep going back for more, but I really want to master this sport in a relaxed and pain free way.

I have mentioned my PTSD. It makes me so rigid on my skis. In my first year I clenched my poles so hard I had nerve damage to the palms of my hands---shins also.

Re pressure: I've heard that you have to pressure the ski tips, and that turning pressure begins at the toes. Are those true?? What more can you tell me to help me visualize pressure and distribution of my weight?

 

[Gina23]

Maybe it's just me and the fact that I'm a beginner, but I absolutely refuse to be uncomfortable in boots. For me skiing is a relaxing, social, fun, and peaceful event. I felt my first weekend ever what it was like to be uncomfortable in ski boots and almost passed out from the pain. Surely there has to be a happy medium. And when I say "happy medium" I mean #1 the boots protecting you from injury and being the right size, yet allowing you to be comfortable all day. When I went to buy my boots, I was fitted and was told that the boots I had been renting were entirely too big. He put me in some intermediate solomon boots and immediately the feeling of the first weekend came back to me. My toes were scrunched up and unmovable, the buckles wouldn't budge or snap down. I had a red line forming around my calves visibly within the first few minutes. Then I tried on my Head boots. Heaven. Pure heaven. I have wide feet and large, muscular calves from running 10+ miles a week. I can wear my boots all day, even at apres ski, completely buckled and am comfortable and warm. Although equipment is important, especially boots, I am unconvinced that giving up comfort and circulation is going to equal me skiing blacks. I think back to the days where they had straight skis and really terrible boots compared to today's standards. They were skiing blacks in that equipment, surely I can generate enough skill and balance in my brand new equipment to do so "someday." Maybe it's my attitude... ehhh, I'll get there when I get there I have no need to hurry through, and are my friends at the bar yet? Ha! I had this same conversation with my friend who was a ski instructor for 10 years at Deer Valley in Utah... she was skiing in crappy/old equipment that was outdated by years compared to mine, yet she was tearing down blacks and moguls like she owned the resort. She said, "you can buy whatever you want, but when it comes down to it, it's your skill." The minute I stop having fun, the minute I stop skiing... and I like the atmosphere too much to do that... so if that means I have to learn to ski blacks in my comfy boots, so be it. I don't care if I suck, as long as I'm safe and I have fun! Just my 9 cents

 

[altagirl]

I am seriously going to pass on that, thank you.

But are you folks telling me that it's only an ILLUSION that I have greater control with my boots buckled tight???

Maybe you're right, since I fell today soon after cinching those babies up till they gasped for mercy at the top of the black diamond.

I would dearly love to ski pain free. I've been in pain for most of the last 5 years. It's a mystery why I keep going back for more, but I really want to master this sport in a relaxed and pain free way.

I have mentioned my PTSD. It makes me so rigid on my skis. In my first year I clenched my poles so hard I had nerve damage to the palms of my hands---shins also.

Re pressure: I've heard that you have to pressure the ski tips, and that turning pressure begins at the toes. Are those true?? What more can you tell me to help me visualize pressure and distribution of my weight?

You will have more control with your boots buckled, but not by much at all on smooth terrain. The illusion is that control increasess the tighter you crush your feet into your boots. You WILL have more control if you can still feel your feet and use them in a relaxed and comfortable manner!

I'm absolutely serious that you REALLY should try this next time you're skiing. NOT on a black diamond. Go to the easiest green bunny slope you can find and ski with your boots unbuckled. It will help you learn to relax your foot muscles and that you don't need to be so rigid. You can't learn it if you're trying on a slope that intimidates you, and it sounds like being too stiff and tense is what's really holding you back. Concentrate on spreading your toes out and getting as much of the surface of your foot "melted" into the footbed as possible. Then try to steer by angling your foot and pressuring with your big and little toes (depending on which way you want to turn).

 

[persee]

Hrm... This is all very interesting and I'm storing it all away for when I do have to buy new boots - which will be done with a very good boot fitter I already have in mind. I presently am skiing in Nordica W8Ws in size 24 or 24.5. I know I committed a "sin" buying them at Ski Market in the fall of 2004 on clearance, but I think somehow I did quite well. I tried on a TON of boots at different stores and despite what anyone told me (my husband who had skiid before or the kid/adult bringing me the boots to try on) I felt the most important thing for me was finding a boot that was comfortable and *really* supported my ankles. I have "weak" ankles from having sprained both multiple times fairly severely from age 8 to 15. The last time I sprained one I was in PT and had the PT advise me that my ankle tendons were essentially like loose rubberbands from previously not healing properly/tightly due to not being able to be off my foot, etc to heal.

The Nordicas fit the bill on my ankles and off I went. I have never known the hell of rental boots or even boots that were painful. I have had slightly numb feet on occasion but I know this is more from poor circulation in my feet than anything the boots are or are not doing.

So I've noticed as I get "better" or maybe it's just more sensitive that I tend to tighten down the 2 middle buckles more to keep my heel better locked in place. This combined with everyone talking about how tight their boots are (even uncomfy out of the box) had me start wondering - are my boots really too big? So the other day when I took a friend out to look for some pants, gloves etc - trying to get her to try skiing - she wanted to try on some boots to get a feel for them - she always has cold feet. I said hey what the hell I know a lot more I'll try on a couple smaller boots (ie size 23/23.5) to see what the deal is. Well any of the ones I tried on I found uncomfortably too small (ie my big toe was jammed in there regarless of how I was standing - straight or bent/leaning forward). So perhaps I didn't buy the wrong size after all?

I mean everyone says boots aren't supposed to fit you perfectly out of the box, so how did I apparently come so close? Am I crazy?

 

[altagirl]

Hrm... This is all very interesting and I'm storing it all away for when I do have to buy new boots - which will be done with a very good boot fitter I already have in mind. I presently am skiing in Nordica W8Ws in size 24 or 24.5. I know I committed a "sin" buying them at Ski Market in the fall of 2004 on clearance, but I think somehow I did quite well. I tried on a TON of boots at different stores and despite what anyone told me (my husband who had skiid before or the kid/adult bringing me the boots to try on) I felt the most important thing for me was finding a boot that was comfortable and *really* supported my ankles. I have "weak" ankles from having sprained both multiple times fairly severely from age 8 to 15. The last time I sprained one I was in PT and had the PT advise me that my ankle tendons were essentially like loose rubberbands from previously not healing properly/tightly due to not being able to be off my foot, etc to heal.

The Nordicas fit the bill on my ankles and off I went. I have never known the hell of rental boots or even boots that were painful. I have had slightly numb feet on occasion but I know this is more from poor circulation in my feet than anything the boots are or are not doing.

So I've noticed as I get "better" or maybe it's just more sensitive that I tend to tighten down the 2 middle buckles more to keep my heel better locked in place. This combined with everyone talking about how tight their boots are (even uncomfy out of the box) had me start wondering - are my boots really too big? So the other day when I took a friend out to look for some pants, gloves etc - trying to get her to try skiing - she wanted to try on some boots to get a feel for them - she always has cold feet. I said hey what the hell I know a lot more I'll try on a couple smaller boots (ie size 23/23.5) to see what the deal is. Well any of the ones I tried on I found uncomfortably too small (ie my big toe was jammed in there regarless of how I was standing - straight or bent/leaning forward). So perhaps I didn't buy the wrong size after all?

I mean everyone says boots aren't supposed to fit you perfectly out of the box, so how did I apparently come so close? Am I crazy?

Well, obviously they're making the boots they sell based on SOMEONE's foot - it's just that for a huge number of people - we have enough irregularities on our feet that you can't just find a pair that fit right off the shelf. And the problem is that the tendency is just to keep going bigger until all your bunions and bones sticking out funny do fit, but then the rest of your foot is wiggling around in there. The better solution is to buy smaller and blow out the problem areas so you have a good all-over fit.

If you can't wiggle your toes around or get them away from the front wall of the boot when you're flexed forward, then yes, the boot would be too small. So it sounds like you've got something that fits well length-wise and are among the lucky who don't need to do a lot of modifying to get something that fits!

 

[volklgirl]

Lucky, lucky, lucky few!!

 

[SnowGlider]

What about shell fit??

I think it's important to distinguish between comfort fit (2 fingers), race fit (1 finger) and THE HAPPY MEDIUM, which for me is slightly more than 1 finger.

I skied with a comfort fit shell for the first 5 years of my skiing career. I have a suspicion that this is why I haven't progressed beyond high intermediate/low advanced recently. I think my main technique for getting down the blacks has beed SKIDDING, because my boot was too large to allow any other means of control. I think I never learned to carve smaller turns because my boot was too sloppy to allow me to use pressure on the tongue correctly.

Paradoxically, a comfort fit can cause pain because you have to overtighten the boot. This is the main thing I've learned from this boot odyssey.

I'm going for a lesson today. I'm going to ask to focus specifically on proper foot pressure, ski pressure, and balance to help me have control of my skis without overtightening my boots. I'll try to tighten them moderately and then leave them like that for the whole lesson.

Thanks to all for your input! Very interesting replies from all!

 

[Thatsagirl]

I too recommend the drill of skiing without your boots buckled. Truly it does help you figure out where you should be standing on your feet to get maximum control and balance. Do it on a green slope if you have to so you don't feel intimidated and work your way up to the kind of terrain that you find most difficult to ski in. I once took a clinic where we were in three feet of powder, and on our first run, we had to unbuckle our boots. It really did help me find that "ah-ha!" moment. And believe it or not, I did not fall, not once.

I also want to dispel the notion that your boots have to HURT to be the right size. Being SNUG is not the same as being PAINFUL. A good bootfitter can help you figure out the difference. Some people are lucky enough to not need much work on their boots to relieve pressure points, others need a lot of work to do this. I am pretty lucky, I need minor modifications in my Langes. But Langes ARE the boot that fits my foot best. I too have tried on other brands that hurt like heck, or were swimmingly big because of high volume, and those got crossed off the list right away. So, Gina, those Salomons obviously didn't fit your foot correctly--no one should ever describe the boot they buy as fitting that way --so you were right to pass on them.

When we talk about a boot being "too big if it's comfy in the shop," we are really saying, if your foot is swimming around in the boot when you try it on, it will only get bigger over time (because the liner gets packed out after use). Think of it this way: The right boot does not feel like that pointy-toed, spike-heeled shoe that has you cursing the minute you put it on, but rather like your hiking boot or or your running shoes or your everyday shoes that you wear to work and romp around in while doing errands.

And my last thought (but not least): If your boot fits correctly, you do not need to buckle them tighter just because you are in steeper terrain or ungroomed snow or whatever the mountain throws at you. You should be able to ski on all terrain with your buckles always the same (unless you are a racer, which is a different breed of skier and isn't being discussed here). I suspect a lesson or two will help finetune your technique and that should address the issue (assuming you do have the correct fit).

Thatsagirl

 

[persee]

So yesterday at Mount Snow I was very aware of my boots and their fit. I've concluded that the only thing I could use to do with these boots is try to get some modification to slightly lock down my left heel a slight bit more - my left foot and longer and narrower than the right so not really a suprise. I'd forgotten I have heat moldable liners so next time I can see the trusted bootfitter I'll have them heat fit the liners. If this doesn't work I'll probably have a thinnish one of those pieces put on to the liner to improve the fit around my heel. Just figured I'd mention that. However I continue to be quite happy camper and feel very lucky. I just hope next time I need boots I can do so well. Sadly as my hubby pointed out I may end up needing new boots sooner rather than later, not due to fit or pack out, but because I'm over flexing them - ie my skiing has surpassed what these boots are meant for.