Skier Levels....

[persee]

I think this topic was brought up on Epic or AZ last year but I don't think we've discussed it here formally so I figured I might open it up for debate.

The current "rating system" for skier level that I see all use skiing off piste or moguls as a major criteria for exceeding level 7 ("Advanced"). So basically what this means is that despite the fact that I think I can improve and do have a desire to learn to ski powder as well as terrain parks that I'll never rate higher than "advanced" or "7". This is because I really don't have any interest in skiing Moguls or OffPiste/trees. Essentially unless you choose to ski in these conditions this system says that you can't be an "Expert Skier". I don't choose to not ski these conditions because I think I couldn't, but more because I see too much potential for injuries that would keep me from skiing, and I like to ski. I have bad ankles and sometimes cranky knees (when they get too much stress on them which can occur from just gaining 5-10 lbs!), so I really don't see skiing Moguls as something for me. Same with Trees/Off Piste I just don't see the risk/reward as being in my favor there. So even tho I see a lot of room for improvement in my skiing I can never get a higher rating then where I already am.

So perhaps is it time for a change in how we rate ability? Does ability beyond "7"/Advanced have to be keyed to skiing off-piste/moguls?

 

[abc]

- Does it matter TO YOU that you're not a level 9 skier?

- If push comes to shove, (if being rated L9 is that important to you) can you ski mogul just once? Say, to "pass" the qualifying test of level 9, for example?

 

[Shellski]

I think the true definition of an 'expert' skier is someone who can ski all terrain in all conditions with good technique and style. I know a lot of people who can ski groomers and 'hero snow' with a lot of style and grace, and they come apart off piste or in the bumps. I don't consider them experts.

I probably know no more than 5 people I would call expert skiers.

I agree though that the ski school 'rating system' is flawed, I've done one on-line self rating questionnaire, which gives you a skill and then you keep clicking if you are 'better than that'. I kept going and ended up at level 8. I am no way a level 8 skier. I think the gap between say level 7 and level 8 is immense, and unbridgeable for most recreational skiers.

 

[ISki]

Here's the system I grew up with. I like it better!

Beginner
Novice
Intermediate
Expert

Before shaped skis, you used to spend a lot of time in the first few catagories.

Intermediate was good! It meant you were no longer a novice.

Expert - when you saw it, you knew it.

 

[SueNJ]

I think that having the skills to ski moguls or off-piste and actually doing so are two different things. The point of the rating system is that someone beyond level 7 has the skills and ability to ski in those conditions--doesn't mean you have to actually do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the only time the levels come into effect is when you're looking to take lessons. It's a quick way for you to convey to your instructor the level of your skiing skills without having to rattle off a checklist of skills.

 

[Pequenita]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, the only time the levels come into effect is when you're looking to take lessons. It's a quick way for you to convey to your instructor the level of your skiing skills without having to rattle off a checklist of skills.

Yeah, that's my sense, too; I didn't even know there were levels until 2 years ago.

Regarding moguls - I think anytime a steep and ungroomed slope gets skied on, even if it's just you doing it over and over again, moguls will emerge. So, not to belittle the "I don't want to ski moguls" sentiment, which I can empathize with, but I think that being able to ski moguls is part of a natural progression in the ski learning process. I personally suck at bumps that I didn't create.

 

[SueNJ]

Regarding moguls - I think anytime a steep and ungroomed slope gets skied on, even if it's just you doing it over and over again, moguls will emerge. So, not to belittle the "I don't want to ski moguls" sentiment, which I can empathize with, but I think that being able to ski moguls is part of a natural progression in the ski learning process.

Really good point--the more conditions you're able to ski comfortably, the higher the level of skier you are, which makes sense. In that regard, I think the rating system is on target. It's a matter of, "I can ski moguls, but I choose not to."

 

[abc]

Exactly!

Basically, unless we develope a parallel rating system purely for groomed runs, an "expert" on the groom is only an intermediate on the overall scale of skiable surfaces.

The truth being, if a skier is TRUELY expert, she WILL ski mogul just fine even if she only does it occasionally. The technique is the same after all. So if a skier falls apart on the un-groom, that skier is lacking in some basic technique, i.e. NOT a TRUE expert.

Few of us dare to call ourselve "expert". I certainly won't. And I don't think I'm even close, despite the fact I can pretty much ski just about anything inbound except the most insane. Fact is, the more we know, the more we know we don't know. So, the closer one is to a true "expert", the farther away it feels to be able to reach it.

 

[perma-grin]

Exactly!

Basically, unless we develope a parallel rating system purely for groomed runs, an "expert" on the groom is only an intermediate on the overall scale of skiable surfaces.

The truth being, if a skier is TRUELY expert, she WILL ski mogul just fine even if she only does it occasionally. The technique is the same after all. So if a skier falls apart on the un-groom, that skier is lacking in some basic technique, i.e. NOT a TRUE expert.

Few of us dare to call ourselve "expert". I certainly won't. And I don't think I'm even close, despite the fact I can pretty much ski just about anything inbound except the most insane. Fact is, the more we know, the more we know we don't know. So, the closer one is to a true "expert", the farther away it feels to be able to reach it.

Truer words were never spoken!

 

[Robyn]

Fact is, the more we know, the more we know we don't know. So, the closer one is to a true "expert", the farther away it feels to be able to reach it.

Isn't that the truth! I can see that I'm close to expert except in the mogul/off-piste part because while I can ski them I'm not beautiful to look at on them nor do I enjoy them which makes me feel like I'm no more than intermediate on those days. But, really, I know I'm advanced and just need to force myself to spend time in the bumps and off-piste. But it seems like it's so much to get to an expert level.

 

[perma-grin]

I actually love the bumps and trees. The thing that makes my butt cheeks go tight is wind blown crust! Ugh!! It is my worst skiing nightmare!!!! I totally fall apart in it!!! The worst part is I understand what I'm doing wrong, and STILL can't fix it !!!!! I admit it I'm scared of it! You just can't predict what is going to happen next! I hate crust!! I choose not to ski it! I choose kick-turn traverse instead! Lol! I know I'm a wimp!

 

[abc]

Breakable crust! Oh mine!

I'm scared of it. I don't have a clue how to deal with it. I fumble about about it and try my best to stay as far away from it.

The wind blown ones, at least once I sink in, I can just ski the creamy snow underneath. The worst, is the thin crust of ice on top of soft snow. I think these are basically re-freezed wind blown crust. One moment, I'm skating the ice. The next, one of my ski broke the crust...

Oh, I got scared just thinking about it... :(

 

[Shellski]

Exactly!

Basically, unless we develope a parallel rating system purely for groomed runs, an "expert" on the groom is only an intermediate on the overall scale of skiable surfaces.

The truth being, if a skier is TRUELY expert, she WILL ski mogul just fine even if she only does it occasionally. The technique is the same after all. So if a skier falls apart on the un-groom, that skier is lacking in some basic technique, i.e. NOT a TRUE expert.

Few of us dare to call ourselve "expert". I certainly won't. And I don't think I'm even close, despite the fact I can pretty much ski just about anything inbound except the most insane. Fact is, the more we know, the more we know we don't know. So, the closer one is to a true "expert", the farther away it feels to be able to reach it.

 

[SueNJ]

The truth being, if a skier is TRUELY expert, she WILL ski mogul just fine even if she only does it occasionally. The technique is the same after all. So if a skier falls apart on the un-groom, that skier is lacking in some basic technique, i.e. NOT a TRUE expert.

Right on target! Skiing off-piste and moguls are the most advanced techniques a skier can learn, aside from doing tricks in a terrain park (which in my mind, is in a whole separate category). It stands to reason that mastering those techniques would put a person in the highest expert levels. Removing those 2 techniques from the rating scale would then theoretically put someone who can ski only groomed runs, however skillfully, on the same level as someone who can nail moguls and skillfully ski off-piste.

 

[ride_ski]

Agree wholehartedly. I am getting to the point in my skiing where I'm working on the "ungroomed". Just last season I started to enjoy actually having snow on the trails..I'd like to think that I am an "advanced" skier, if I had to label myself. But I know that I would have a LOONG way to go to make it to expert (if I ever even get there). But it is something I work at constantly.

 

[sibhusky]

I've done one on-line self rating questionnaire, which gives you a skill and then you keep clicking if you are 'better than that'. I kept going and ended up at level 8. I am no way a level 8 skier.

I must have taken the same one. I am happy being a 7.5. Actually, LAST YEAR I was a 7.5. This year I seem to be a 6.....

 

[IttyBittyBetty]

Telemark and Snowboard?

Do the 9 skier levels apply to telemark skiers and snow boarders? I would assume so.