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Help Needed: New Nordica Pro Machine boots make my quads burn!

scnelson

Certified Ski Diva
Over the Summer I got some new boots - Nordica Pro Machine 85W. We did a lot of research and these sounded like they were designed around someone like myself that is petite (5' 1.5", 125lbs), with low volume feet and who ski with finesse vs power. They fit my feet very well and I was very excited to use them. However, a few turns into my first run last week and my quads were screaming. I had to stop many times on that first run to let my legs recover. Thankfully we brought my old boots (2017 Head Vector Evo 80W) so I put those on and the burn went away. My husband thought the ramp angle and/or forward lean must be drastically different as I was using my same pair of skis that I had been using so the only thing that was different was my boots. At first glance, the Nordicas appear to have a few degrees more forward lean as they are clearly more leaned forward to the naked eye. However, either Head or Nordica is off on their measurements because Nordica says they use a 13° forward lean with 5° ramp angle vs the Heads which say they are 14° forward lean with 4° ramp angle. They are both 98mm last and size 23.5. In spite of the numbers saying the Heads have more forward lean, they are clearly more upright both to the eye, and by feel when clipped in my skis and it's more than the 1° difference anyway (I knew flex was subjective among manufacturers but figured forward lean and ramp angles would be more scientific). Knowing I can't trust the numbers, it's hard to tell if the claimed 2° delta difference (Head 14-4=10° vs Nordica 13-5=8°) is the problem or if something else is going on.

My husband said he would just gas pedal my bindings but we can't since both of my pairs of skis use system bindings. We could have plates installed on the bottom of the toes of the boots but my question to you is if it's worth the hassles of trying to make these boots work for me or if I should just move on? My old heads aren't in bad shape but the liners are just packed out to where I have too much space for my low volume feet. At 80 flex, they are also on the softer side given that I've progressed in my skiing which is why I was bumping up in stiffness. I do see that Head makes the same Vector Evo in a 90 flex so maybe that is the answer since I know the head boots work well for me. Given that I only have 1 run on the Nordicas, I'm sure we could recoup most of what we paid since we got a good deal on them. Thanks!
 

brooksnow

Angel Diva
Could you post a pic of a side view of you wearing both pair of boots? And a picture of the back of both pairs?
 

SarahXC

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
You can place a small laser level inside the boot shell (no liner) to get the exact angles to compare the two. But if it was that bad in just part of one run I’d be inclined to say move on. Especially since it sounds like you think you wouldn’t be out much money and the higher flex Head seems to offer a simple solution. How much money is worth throwing at trying to make the Nordicas work (which may still fail) versus using it for the Heads which seem like more of a sure thing if they haven’t been redesigned since your older version.
 

contesstant

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
If the Nordicas fit your feet well and weren't causing issues there, I'd work on getting the stance dialed in. I wouldn't assume the newer, stiffer Head boots will have the same angles as your old ones. Manufacturers change this stuff so often.

You can experiment with angles in many ways that are temporary. Definitely make sure that spoiler isn't velcroed in the back for starters.
 

scnelson

Certified Ski Diva
This may seem obvious, but check to see if your new boot has a spoiler velcroed to the back cuff edge. Some boot still come with these removable spoilers. If you have them take them off as they really cause lots of problems with the lean and serious quad burn.
They did not have spoilers on.
 

scnelson

Certified Ski Diva
My son has a pair of skis that they put inserts in for when he and my husband travel with multiple skis. They are about my size so we may experiment with various height gas pedals to see how that feels before deciding whether to sell the Nordicas or not. I really don't want to spend a bunch of money modifying them, only to find out they may not work anyway. It's pretty crazy what just a couple of degrees change can do but the smaller the boot, the bigger the effect of a degree or two. We have a trip to Park City December 6th and it's looking like I may just take my old boots unless we can sort this out before. It's unlikely because even if we figure out that I need a Xmm gas pedal, I'm not sure I there is any easy fix with the system bindings on my skis.
 

WaterGirl

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
If you really thought it was the ramp of the boot board and you have skis/ boots handy try swapping out the boot board from the Head into the Nordica. Stand on the carpet and click into your skis. Get the same feeling? [Im assuming your footbed is the same, that you just transferred from the old boot to new boot or did you get a new footbed?] you could also try to stuff some folded cardboard, newspaper or magazine in between the boot shell and the tongue of the boot and see if that helps.

There are so many variables although I can recall getting quad fatigue just trying on a particular pair of boots a few years ago. I will say I have new boots (with a similarly altered boot board and same footbeds from old boots) and for the first time on my first day of skiing this season I was pleasantly surprised I did not have any 'quad fatigue.' After three days I had general minor equal upper and lower leg soreness well, just from skiing which was to be expected :smile: In my old boot I would get early season quad fatigue from what appears to be me supporting myself in a too soft boot for my body specifics. For me the game changer was going up a few notches in flex.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
It sounds like this boot has a stiffer spine and other boots. So if you're trying to stand up right in the boot, it's never going to happen. I had this happen a few boots ago along with a lot of other issues.

Also grab the book that came with the boots. What happens if you remove 1 or both of those screws on the back?
 

Covie

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Gas pedal for sure. Don’t worry they will dremmel the top toe piece, to shave it down to make up for the gas pedal on the bottom. Do you know if the cuff of the head is taller than the Nordica? If you have too much leverage over the boot it’s called something like hanging, and it’s a thigh burner.
 

Christy

Angel Diva
But if it was that bad in just part of one run I’d be inclined to say move on.

That would be my inclination as well. I have to have a very upright boot otherwise I get the quad burn. If you don't have a spoiler in and know that the boots are as upright as they can go, I personally wouldn't make a bunch of modifications to try to make them work. (Btw a "gas pedal" doesn't work for me). These aren't the only fish in the sea. I'd work with a fitter to find the right pair. IMO it's not something you can just read about and figure out. My own fitter doesn't sell boots so what he has people do is to order a few pairs from a place like backcounty.com that will accept returns, then he helps us figure out which will work for us.
 

elemmac

Angel Diva
My son has a pair of skis that they put inserts in for when he and my husband travel with multiple skis. They are about my size so we may experiment with various height gas pedals to see how that feels before deciding whether to sell the Nordicas or not. I really don't want to spend a bunch of money modifying them, only to find out they may not work anyway. It's pretty crazy what just a couple of degrees change can do but the smaller the boot, the bigger the effect of a degree or two. We have a trip to Park City December 6th and it's looking like I may just take my old boots unless we can sort this out before. It's unlikely because even if we figure out that I need a Xmm gas pedal, I'm not sure I there is any easy fix with the system bindings on my skis.
Personally, I would try a few (temporary) things out before calling it quits on the boots. First, determine if you think you are too far fore or aft in your stance...unfortunately, both instances can cause quad burn. Put your boots on try doing a squat (i.e. deep flexion column below). What position do you end up in:

1669054388144.png

If you find you cannot get to an A3 position, do you end up in the backseat, like B3 (without skis on you will feel like you're falling backwards), or do you feel like you can get SUPER low...so low that your butt touches the spine of your ski boots (C3)? If you feel like B3...try putting some spoilers against the spine of your boot to create more forward lean. If you feel like C3, a gas pedal will probably be your best bet. To imitate a gas pedal, try putting a magazine under the toes of your boot...test your balance. How does it feel? How about putting it under the heels? Play around with different heights under your boots...see what feels best for balance.

Depending on what you find, you can make a more informed decision about ditching the boots or taking them to a bootfitter to help make your temporary fixes permanent.
 

Jilly

Moderator
Staff member
Forward lean is not canting. Canting is moving the cuff in or out in the lateral plane.

Canting essentially means tipping the whole boot left or right in relation to the ski for the sake of improved edging balance and for stability and comfort of the legs during skiing.
 

Elizabeth.I

Ski Diva Extraordinaire
Forward lean is not canting. Canting is moving the cuff in or out in the lateral plane.

Canting essentially means tipping the whole boot left or right in relation to the ski for the sake of improved edging balance and for stability and comfort of the legs during skiing.
You're right! I just looked it up! You were on that before I could correct myself haha
 

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